Uncle Jim and others suggest Courier. I'm reading Janet Evanovich's "How I Write," and she suggests Geneva 14 point. Is that okay?
Another font question
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She WRITES in Geneva. It doesn't mean she submits in Geneva.
I write in Hoefler Text. I submit in Courier New.
I write in Hoefler Text. I submit in Courier New.
The point of using Courier is that it uses a fixed with for each letter and has serifs. If your font has that too, it follows the most important ' rules'.
I think you've already made up your mind whether it's okay to use or not.
Bear in mind that Janet Evanovich is a bestseller. The rest of us nobodies are best served by sticking to publisher guidelines.
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I write in whatever the default setting is. Is that Times New Roman? Submissions, though, go in Courier.
I looked for Geneva on Word and it's not there. Did a Google search and it appears to be an Apple thing. People who use those are weird anyways.
I like to write in Wingdings 2. It keeps me from going back and changing things as I write. Only problem is I have trouble working out where I left off.
For submissions I use Wingdings 3. If an agent can't take the time to figure out what I wrote do I really want them representing me?
I like to write in Wingdings 2. It keeps me from going back and changing things as I write. Only problem is I have trouble working out where I left off.
For submissions I use Wingdings 3. If an agent can't take the time to figure out what I wrote do I really want them representing me?
Where does this kind of response come from? I asked a pretty simple question. I have "already made up my mind" in the sense that I do all my manuscript writing in Courier New since that is what I've long heard is the correct one to use (unless told otherwise by the publisher). That is why I thought it was so odd for a well-known writer to suggest Geneva in a book designed to teach new writers the business.
I've always received courteous responses from AW before. What gives with some of the rude responses here?
This, also was an impulsive and somewhat rude response:
"She WRITES in Geneva. It doesn't mean she submits in Geneva."
From a mod (I think), no less. I've already pointed out that she does in fact suggest submitting in Geneva, but I'd like to address the tone of the response itself. The tone of it makes it sound as though I'm being difficult (which I wasn't) or that I'm stupid (which I'm not). I was polite in my initial response, but since I've now received what I consider to be two rude (or at the very least, short) remarks in the same thread, I felt like standing up for myself.
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Why did you assume I already made up my mind to use Geneva? I didn't think I said anything that would lead you to believe that. Your response makes it sound like I was stubborn and was arguing against using Courier, which I wasn't.
And, it wasn't you so much as I was perturbed by Maestro's comment from earlier, and yours didn't help.
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I think people have got the wrong end of the stick here. Shall we all take a deep breath and relax? Then we can have a big group hug.
Okay. I know no one intended to come across as rude, and I probably over-reacted, so sorry for that. I also don't think I stated my original question very well, so let me give it another go.
I am well aware that Courier is the font that submissions should normally be made in, unless told differently by the publisher you are submitting to. In Evanovich's book about how to write, she makes it sound like Geneva 14 point is what a writer is supposed to use in the manuscript. Doesn't this seem odd? Does anyone have any idea why she would suggest that in her book?
I am well aware that Courier is the font that submissions should normally be made in, unless told differently by the publisher you are submitting to. In Evanovich's book about how to write, she makes it sound like Geneva 14 point is what a writer is supposed to use in the manuscript. Doesn't this seem odd? Does anyone have any idea why she would suggest that in her book?
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How is that being rude? There were many discussions on this before, and Medievalist very kindly pointed you to the FAQ, and also told you that Courier or TNR is the standard font, and you still come back and say, "Yeah, I know, but..." You didn't clarify that Janet Evanovich submits in Geneva 14. You only said "she writes in Geneva 14." And I emphasized "writes." That's all.
People do write in whatever fonts they want. I write in Hoefler Text.
How was I rude?
You asked a question. We answered it. You asked AGAIN. And we answered it again. It's not difficult for someone to think you've already made up your mind.
Geneva 14 isn't even a standard font. As someone else said, it's only on the Mac. And 14 pt is way too big for ms. submission.
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OK. * deep breath *
Can you post her exact quote? Does she actually say that's the font she uses to submit, and not just to her own editors? If her editor and she agree on a font, then I'd say that's fine (my editor prefers Times). And if she only writes in Geneva but formats it differently for submission, that's fine, too. Like I said, I prefer Hoefler Text on my Mac. Now, if she does indeed say "submit in Geneva 14" then it's rather odd. First, like someone said, it's not even a standard font -- it's a Mac thing, and not everyone has a Mac. So, if she really did suggest submitting in Geneva 14, then I think she's given bad advice.
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difference
In 12 point Courier, the text is easier to read quickly, makes the manuscript more compact, and makes all manuscripts look the same. This makes the job of an agent or editor easier.
In 14 point Geneva, the font is larger and the text is easier on the eyes, allowing for better editing reading. The spaces between each line is larger and gives you more room to add comments, change words, and fully edit the text.
Both setups are useful for their intended purpose. I write in one size, edit in another, and submit in a third. I usually use triple space for more difficult first draft editing in hard copy.
Maybe she found this trick, herself.
In 12 point Courier, the text is easier to read quickly, makes the manuscript more compact, and makes all manuscripts look the same. This makes the job of an agent or editor easier.
In 14 point Geneva, the font is larger and the text is easier on the eyes, allowing for better editing reading. The spaces between each line is larger and gives you more room to add comments, change words, and fully edit the text.
Both setups are useful for their intended purpose. I write in one size, edit in another, and submit in a third. I usually use triple space for more difficult first draft editing in hard copy.
Maybe she found this trick, herself.
I think sticking to industry standard is the best idea. Just because someone's a bestseller doesn't mean they 1) can write well enough/ explain things well enough to write their own "how to" book and 2) care much for standards anymore
I bet as long as her publishers got a new "number" book out of her each year, they wouldn't care if she submitted in Lucida Gothic Script. It's all just a quick highlight/change anyway. Now, this new author queries in a script that's not standard. *chucks in the wastebasket*
If she really suggests submitting in that, it's likely a case of her being flat out wrong. If every "how to write" book was 100% correct, people writing new ones would be out of a job.
And just as a side note: I use a mac, and I use TNR when I write and I've transferred everything to Courier New for submitting. Okay, back to my morning caffeine...
I bet as long as her publishers got a new "number" book out of her each year, they wouldn't care if she submitted in Lucida Gothic Script. It's all just a quick highlight/change anyway. Now, this new author queries in a script that's not standard. *chucks in the wastebasket*
If she really suggests submitting in that, it's likely a case of her being flat out wrong. If every "how to write" book was 100% correct, people writing new ones would be out of a job.
And just as a side note: I use a mac, and I use TNR when I write and I've transferred everything to Courier New for submitting. Okay, back to my morning caffeine...
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Font
Isn't Geneva a Mac font? I've never even seen it.
At any rate, while I always submit using Courier 12, either Dark Courier or Courier 10bt, I write using a font called "Detective." It looks like something typed on a 1930s typewriter.
Isn't Geneva a Mac font? I've never even seen it.
At any rate, while I always submit using Courier 12, either Dark Courier or Courier 10bt, I write using a font called "Detective." It looks like something typed on a 1930s typewriter.
Medievalist was kind and I have no problem with the response I was given, other than it didn't answer what I was asking. This is probably mostly due to me not asking it very well the first go around. What I wanted to know was why she would suggest Geneva, and if that was a common thing. Medievalist told me what I was already well aware of, which is the traditional font to use is Courier. I have read a lot of posts here and have read a lot of other books on writing, so I know the whole thing about Courier being the font to use. So, It was information I already knew. What I didn't know was anything about Geneva being used, and why in a book designed to teach new writers how to write, this would be the font suggested.
I didn't mean to sound sassy, I just wanted to clarify what I was actually asking.
Incorrect. And if we are going to have this discussion, you should quote me correctly. This is what I actually asked in my OP: "Uncle Jim and others suggest Courier. I'm reading Janet Evanovich's "How I Write," and she suggests Geneva 14 point. Is that okay?"
First, you were impulsive, and just flat wrong, to state that she said she writes in Geneva but didn't say she submits in Geneva. You acted like you knew what she wrote in her book when you actually didn't know. Second, when you put "writes" in all caps, it comes across, not only as emphasis, but also as shouting. " She WRITES in Geneva. It doesn't mean she submits in Geneva."
So your post added nothing to the discussion, other than yelling at me, and still didn't answer my question. I wondered why you even bothered to post.
No you didn't
I asked again because I wasn't answered the first time. If my question had been "what font should I use for submitting?" then my question would have been answered. But, that was not my question. My question was "Why would Evanovich suggest Geneva?"
I don't see how he could have read that into my posts.
Well, this just makes me REALLY want to know why she suggests it in her book.
It's not a direct quote, actually. And the satement might have come from the publisher, not her. on pages 158-159 there is a sample manuscript. It is in the Getting Published chapter. It comes immediately after she talks about how to format a manuscript. She never talks about what font to use, but in the sample manuscript, there is a note that says to use Geneva 14 point.
It may not be from Evanovich directly, but she doesn't clarify about a font anywhere else in the book, and her name is on the book, so at this point I have to assume it is what she teaches in her book.
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I don't want to continue with this fight, but just a few more things and we can move on:
Maybe I jumped into conclusion and I apologize. But I don't get from your sentence anywhere that said she actually submitted using Geneva 14. You mentioned Uncle Jim, but Uncle Jim also writes in Courier (I don't). You quoted the title of her book "How I Write." I can only assume that she was talking about "writing" in Geneva 14.
You need to be more specific when you ask a question like that.
It's not wrong given the limited information you gave me. Even now, after I asked you, you couldn't give me a direct quote, instead just referring to a ms. sample in the book. Granted, I haven't read the book and didn't know what you were referring to, so I could only assume using the information I had. You never said anything about her submitting in Geneva. In fact, now I know she didn't even come right out and say so. So you made your own assumptions as well.
It's a miscommunication. I use CAPS for emphasis -- it's easier so I don't have to muck with bolding or italicizing it. I don't shout. I think it's your sensibility speaking here. It was you who assumed that I was shouting at you. Thus it was you who assumed that I was being rude to you. And then you went into accusation mode, even bringing things up like "and a mod, no less." What does that mean, precisely?
Since we already say it's not standard, the only way to really know is to ask her publisher and her.
But that's we are saying, Geneva is not even a standard font. So she shouldn't suggest it as a standard, even if that's what her publisher uses.
Maybe I jumped into conclusion and I apologize. But I don't get from your sentence anywhere that said she actually submitted using Geneva 14. You mentioned Uncle Jim, but Uncle Jim also writes in Courier (I don't). You quoted the title of her book "How I Write." I can only assume that she was talking about "writing" in Geneva 14.
You need to be more specific when you ask a question like that.
It's not wrong given the limited information you gave me. Even now, after I asked you, you couldn't give me a direct quote, instead just referring to a ms. sample in the book. Granted, I haven't read the book and didn't know what you were referring to, so I could only assume using the information I had. You never said anything about her submitting in Geneva. In fact, now I know she didn't even come right out and say so. So you made your own assumptions as well.
It's a miscommunication. I use CAPS for emphasis -- it's easier so I don't have to muck with bolding or italicizing it. I don't shout. I think it's your sensibility speaking here. It was you who assumed that I was shouting at you. Thus it was you who assumed that I was being rude to you. And then you went into accusation mode, even bringing things up like "and a mod, no less." What does that mean, precisely?
Since we already say it's not standard, the only way to really know is to ask her publisher and her.
But that's we are saying, Geneva is not even a standard font. So she shouldn't suggest it as a standard, even if that's what her publisher uses.
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