Breakdown of agent income

rwam · Aug 25, 2007

I know that if you're interested in selling your book to a publisher, you want an agent with lots of reputable sales that don't charge fees. When you find such an agent, you can ASSUME this agent derives most (if not all) of their income from commissions on sales to publishers.

However, isn't it true that an agency can survive with little sales while charging zero fees by appearing at an abundance of conferences?

So, I guess my questions are:

1) How much (and I know it must vary depending per agent) do agents charge for appearing at a conference? Can the appearance fee be in the four-figures for non-big-name agents?
2) Are there any available resources (online or otherwise) for writers to see the breakdown of income by commissions/fees/conference for any given agent or agency? I suspect not, but figure it can't hurt to ask.

It would seem that if agents command significant appearance fees and they only accept manuscripts from people they meet at conferences, this is akin to 'you have to pay to play'...almost like a new spin on charging a reader's fee. Or am I thinking too much?
Rob

Manat · Aug 25, 2007

You're thinking too much.

Will Lavender · Aug 25, 2007

Actually, it's sort of an interesting argument.

But. A lot of these agents take submissions all the time and seriously consider them. If you look in the Agents' Market, a lot of the entries (perhaps most) say, "We only consider work that's been requested," or some variation of that. But when you start querying, you see that many (perhaps most) agents don't hold by that rule. If they get a good idea over the transom, they will likely take it on.

Toothpaste · Aug 26, 2007

I don't know of any agents who only accept MSS from conferences. They may agree to read some while at a conference, but that doesn't even guarentee acceptance. As ever, every author I know got their agent through the slush pile.

stormie · Aug 26, 2007

Toothpaste said:
I don't know of any agents who only accept MSS from conferences. They may agree to read some while at a conference, but that doesn't even guarentee acceptance. As ever, every author I know got their agent through the slush pile.

Yup. Toothpaste (love that user name!) is right.

Will Lavender · Aug 27, 2007

Toothpaste said:
I don't know of any agents who only accept MSS from conferences. They may agree to read some while at a conference, but that doesn't even guarentee acceptance. As ever, every author I know got their agent through the slush pile.

This is probably true; however, there are a lot of "Will only accept invited work" kinds of comments in the Agents' Market that Writer's Digest publishes. I think the OP's point, unless I'm misunderstanding it, is that an agent meets a writer at a conference, said agent asks for the MS, and then the writer sends it when he or she gets home.

I don't know how widespread that really is, but if you take a look at the Market it appears that it might be fairly common.

rwam · Aug 28, 2007

Will Lavender said:
This is probably true; however, there are a lot of "Will only accept invited work" kinds of comments in the Agents' Market that Writer's Digest publishes. I think the OP's point, unless I'm misunderstanding it, is that an agent meets a writer at a conference, said agent asks for the MS, and then the writer sends it when he or she gets home.

I don't know how widespread that really is, but if you take a look at the Market it appears that it might be fairly common.

Yeah, I think my original post was worded poorly. My frustration tends to be with agents who are closed to new submissions unless they are from:
1) Published authors
2) Authors referred to the agent by one of the agent's existing clients
3) Authors the agent meets at a conference
When such an agent doesn't have many book deals or clients and has this policy, it would seem that a higher percentage than normal of his/her income would be coming from conference appearances....which seems to be a red flag to me.

Of course, I tend to over-analyze things!

stormie · Aug 28, 2007

Don't get too frustrated. There are many reputable agents who will take on new writers. Write the best ms. you can, polish your query, and do your research at www.agentquery.com

victoriastrauss · Aug 28, 2007

There are a number of marginal agents who are regulars on the conference circuit, but they tend to do the smaller, regional conferences, and I can't imagine that those have a lot of money for honorariums.

- Victoria

Toothpaste · Aug 28, 2007

I can see what you mean, and it is true it is frustrating. I guess I always like to promote the optimistic viewpoint as it happened for me personally, I was found in the slush, and like I said before all my friends with agents came through the slush - not a one of us had any connections. Getting an agent in any field is tough, but in the end is actually doable. I guess that's my point. It isn't just the impossible dream. It can happen.

Also there isn't some giant conspiracy out there trying to keep newbies out of the system, no matter how frustrating it can get at times.

Calla Lily · Aug 28, 2007

I found my agent through a basic query.

After I'd queried, got rejected, rewrote, re-queried... I also did tons of market research to target the agents who I thought would be the most interested.

At the one big conference I went to (ACFW, last Sept.) I got 2 requests for partials, but they dind't pan out.

rwam · Aug 28, 2007

You guys are so encouraging that I just got an idea for an AW anthology: How I Got An Agent

Jamesaritchie · Aug 28, 2007

rwam said:
However, isn't it true that an agency can survive with little sales while charging zero fees by appearing at an abundance of conferences?

Rob

No. In the first place, an agent with few sales isn't going to be paid much, or anything, for appearing at a conference. In the second, what agent would be dumb enough to try making a living this way? In the third place, everyone out there would know exactly what she was doing, and no conference would want her.

In the fourth, the way you choose an agent is always by looking at her sales record and her client list. This alone stops you from having anything to do with a bad agent.

Stijn Hommes · Aug 29, 2007

All it takes is an agent making ten sales at 15% commission and they already earn more than the authors they represent (depending on the advances they negotiated).

cletus · Aug 30, 2007

Jamesaritchie said:
No. In the first place, an agent with few sales isn't going to be paid much, or anything, for appearing at a conference. In the second, what agent would be dumb enough to try making a living this way? In the third place, everyone out there would know exactly what she was doing, and no conference would want her.

In the fourth, the way you choose an agent is always by looking at her sales record and her client list. This alone stops you from having anything to do with a bad agent.

Like James points out, why would a conference organiser pay any amount of money to an agent that hasn't actually sold anything?

victoriastrauss · Aug 30, 2007

cletus said:
Like James points out, why would a conference organiser pay any amount of money to an agent that hasn't actually sold anything?

Because not all conferences can score the big-name agents and thus are stuck with the ones who will say "yes". Because conference organizers don't always do their research and take an agent's claims at face value. Because--and this is especially true for small regional conferences--conference organizers may hold the same misconceptions that cause new writers to sign with agents who haven't sold anything.

- Victoria

Breakdown of agent income

rwam

Manat

Will Lavender

Everything is what it seems.

Toothpaste

THE RECKLESS RESCUE is out now!

stormie

storm central

Will Lavender

Everything is what it seems.

rwam

stormie

storm central

victoriastrauss

Writer Beware Goddess

Toothpaste

THE RECKLESS RESCUE is out now!

Calla Lily

On hiatus

rwam

Jamesaritchie

Stijn Hommes

Know what you write...

cletus

I'm a king bee

victoriastrauss

Writer Beware Goddess