This idea

MilkChan123 · Aug 22, 2007

Alright, I've mentioned before that I'm going to make my first fantasy novel and here is my idea for the plot. I think it sounds kind of...well...I've already sarted writing and I like it so far.
I usually don't make up fantasy things, so this was really difficult to think up.

I don't love how it sounds, but I love how it's turning out right now. I just want to know what people think of it. This is just a little description of what it's about...

Caelan, Stratton, and Tavish are three long time friends as well as a group of bandits. One night on the prince's (Silas) birthday, they decide that this will be the day that they make their very last theft and leave the town. After being let into the castle by Tavish (who is a servant in the castle. He usually bribes the guards all the time for all kinds of things), there a flash (an explosion) and the castle and the entire city is destoryed.
Caelan, surprised to be alive (gotta think of a reason why they survived...), walks around the ruins to see a mysterious boy who turns out to be Prince Silas and finds out that there's someone called (haven't thought of a name yet) looking for the prince. The three friends find each other in all the destruction and leave to another town.
Over time, they find out that Silas (upon turning nineteen) is the key to (some kind of treasure that grants eternal life, great power,or something like that. I was thinking of changing what it does...need to think up a name for it...) and Caelan vows to protect him.

Well...
I know there's alot more I need to think of (why Silas is the "key", why this antagonist wants it so badly -though...I think that's pretty much explained in there-).
I posted this on another site and someone gave me a list of questions. Basically, things that are answered when you read the story.
Though...I still don't know why she asked the bandits were in the city...I think it's pretty obvious that they live there. The whole backstory is in the story itself when you start to read it actually.
There wilbe adventure! Romance (though it won't be the main focus. Usually it is for my stories)! Etc.!

job · Aug 22, 2007

There's plot and there's 'story'.

Plot is what happens to folks and what they do.
Story is why it's important.

John hits Myron over the head. Plot.

John has always been afraid of Myron. For one glorious moment he strikes back. Their relationship has changed. Myron can't bully him any more. Story.

Tamara finds a magic pendant. plot

Tamara is afraid. Does she dare to leave home and follow this quest? Story

I can't advise you on your plotline. Could be great. Hard to know at this point. It's all in how it gets written.
I do think its worthwhile looking at both story and plot.

wayndom · Aug 22, 2007

Question for JoB: Why does it say, "January 2008," by Spymaster's Lady, when Amazon appears to already be selling it, with pictured cover and everything? We're still in 2007.

Azraelsbane · Aug 22, 2007

You should probably read the text next to the order button.

It says "This title will be released January 2, 2008."

amber_grosjean · Aug 22, 2007

Milkchan123--

You have a very interesting story there. Keep it up! I think you will have a lot of fun with this one, answering your own questions as you move along with the story and the plot.

I always let the plot make itself known and just write the story based on an idea. Its easier for me that way. You have a plot there. Just let itself work itself out and tell the story. It'll be a great movie some day! Keep it up! Love the idea!

Amber

OddButInteresting · Aug 23, 2007

MilkChan123 said:
Over time, they find out that Silas (upon turning nineteen) is the key to (some kind of treasure that grants eternal life, great power,or something like that. I was thinking of changing what it does...need to think up a name for it...) and Caelan vows to protect him.

Given that the trio are bandits, I am hoping that they have an agenda of their own regarding the Prince's natural ability to unlock this vault of power. Whilst a bandit may be sympathetic to some of his victims, he's going to be far from selfless.

Bufty · Aug 23, 2007

Welcome Milkchan. :welcome:

And a huge pat on the back for not being paranoid about talking about your 'idea'. It sounds just fine - keep going - it will no doubt change shape as you write it.

And have fun writing it.

MilkChan123 · Aug 23, 2007

OddButInteresting said:
Given that the trio are bandits, I am hoping that they have an agenda of their own regarding the Prince's natural ability to unlock this vault of power. Whilst a bandit may be sympathetic to some of his victims, he's going to be far from selfless.

They don't really care much for it. Tavish is a servant and he's totally loyal to the prince. Stratton completely follows Tavish (even though he's younger). And Caelan...he's sort of the good guy (I don't know why I made one of those...I usually hate them so much, but, I actually like Caelan for some reason..weird).

amber_grosjean- Really? I always think that my stories sound like movies. I started thinking that I want to be a director, because I want to see the stuff in my story animated or with real people. (This specific one...I want it animated. And I want Hayao Miyazaki to direct it! So, I always picture it like his movies when I think of ideas XD)

Thank you! (^_^)v
I was scared to look at the thread because I thought people wouldn't like it. On the other site that I posted on, someone said it sounded like something she'd heard before and someone else didn't like that the treasure was so "god-like".
So...what does everyone think about the treasure? Is it too "out there"? Or should I just keep it that way?

EriRae · Aug 23, 2007

Oh, look...a purple horse just stepped into this thread. You know what that means? Well, you probably don't, 'cause you're new. WRITE THE D@#N BOOK ALREADY

In all seriousness, stop worrying about what people think and write what you know. Sounds like you have a good grip on your characters already. Hammer out a few chapters and stick 'em in Show Your Work. Then, use what's useful and ignore the rest and keep writing! You can do it! Keep on writing your story until it's done. And then let it sit for a week or two. And then revise. And then revise some more. Then post your query letter in SYW. And submit!

Granted, that's easier in theory, but don't worry about your ideas being too "out there." It's fantasy. That's the name of the game. Weren't the boxes of Oden (Wizard's First Rule) a little out there, too? But Goodkind made them work, and you'll make your ideas work, too.

job · Aug 23, 2007

wayndom said:
Question for JoB: Why does it say, "January 2008," by Spymaster's Lady, when Amazon appears to already be selling it, with pictured cover and everything? We're still in 2007.

What Azraelsbane said. I'm just now correcting page proofs on Spymaster's Lady.

GeorgeK · Aug 23, 2007

so the three robin hood thieves were there to pickpocket the guests since if they are so loyal to the prince they wouldn't be there to rob him...and these four people are the only ones to survive the explosion? The prince's secret power can be revealed at this time by him magically surviving when everyone else is killed, but the three thieves survive why? Maybe they were in the cellar and were trapped for a while and had to dig themselves out, or were dug out by someone else...maybe they were in an old tower which was much more sturdy and it was the only part of the castle to survive?

If you are going to have a catastrophe with only three survivors, you need a good explanation why those particular people survive. An alternative is that's how they met, digging each other out of the rubble.

Azraelsbane · Aug 23, 2007

GeorgeK said:
so the three robin hood thieves were there to pickpocket the guests since if they are so loyal to the prince they wouldn't be there to rob him...and these four people are the only ones to survive the explosion?

No longer do I have to look up "condescending" in the dictionary.

MilkChan123 · Aug 23, 2007

GeorgeK said:
so the three robin hood thieves were there to pickpocket the guests since if they are so loyal to the prince they wouldn't be there to rob him...and these four people are the only ones to survive the explosion? The prince's secret power can be revealed at this time by him magically surviving when everyone else is killed, but the three thieves survive why? Maybe they were in the cellar and were trapped for a while and had to dig themselves out, or were dug out by someone else...maybe they were in an old tower which was much more sturdy and it was the only part of the castle to survive?

If you are going to have a catastrophe with only three survivors, you need a good explanation why those particular people survive. An alternative is that's how they met, digging each other out of the rubble.

I could've sworn that I included in my first post that I need to think of a reason.
Though, they weren't the only people to survive.

jodiodi · Aug 23, 2007

What others have said: just write it. The more time you spend with the characters, the more of the story they'll reveal. I've had ideas then started writing them and was surprised at what finally came out in the story. Don't worry about whether people like it or not--at least, not yet. When you start submitting, then you need to be cognizent of what editors are looking for. Until you get to the polishing stage, however, just write the story. Good luck.

MilkChan123 · Aug 23, 2007

I've already started writing it. I was just posting this to see what people think of it.
I'm probably not going to get this (or any of my work) published, but, if I was, it would be because I want people to read it, so, I would want to know if people like it.

GeorgeK · Aug 25, 2007

MilkChan123 said:
I could've sworn that I included in my first post that I need to think of a reason.
Though, they weren't the only people to survive.

Right, I was offering a line of thinking to consider. Whatever insult you and Azreal seem to be reading into it, is purely imagined.

Azraelsbane · Aug 25, 2007

GeorgeK said:
Right, I was offering a line of thinking to consider. Whatever insult you and Azreal seem to be reading into it, is purely imagined.

I apologize if I took your post the wrong way, but you might want to be careful with your phrasing.

I've been known to throw a sarcastic/cutting remark now and again, and like usually recognizes like.

MilkChan123 · Aug 25, 2007

GeorgeK said:
Right, I was offering a line of thinking to consider. Whatever insult you and Azreal seem to be reading into it, is purely imagined.

Oh, no, I wasn't saying that you insulted me. I was just letting you know that I said that the whole thing needed fixing (I might even change the reason they were in the castle in the first place!).

preyer · Aug 25, 2007

the hack in me would have had them all been captured as a reason why they were in the safest place, the dungeon, of the castle. then i probably would chuck my 'three buddies' idea and start with all three being strangers with the idea of going for that 'treasure of the sierra madre' mix of paranoia and mistrust. i'd leave the how and why of the prince's ability for later in the story (i might even make it an ability he can't control, something that'd been known to happen to very small degrees before, thus necessitating the need for a very strong castle with a very strong foundation, but it's was something none of them could predict every happening on that scale. anyway, i like the idea of this walking atomic bomb, not knowing when or if he's going to go off again at any given minute. when asked, 'why you? why the prince?' he throws his hands up and answers, 'i guess it has to be someone.' without knowing much else of the story, it's hard to say the exact reason, though personally i'd avoid it being a curse.)

prison is a good start, else i'd probably term them 'thieves' rather than 'bandits.' the former is what you'd expect lurking around alleyways, while the latter, merely in my opinion, conjures up the image of highwaymen. plus, tossing them all together might give you a group of ne'er-do-wells with different skill sets. my inner hack is always trying to find set-ups that provide (or deteroriate, however you want to look at it) as much sustainable drama as i might need (and the reader can stand ~ i hate stories where every possible thing that can go wrong does, right down to a loose screw on the catwalk which just happens to collapse at just the right moment... blech).

alternatively, the prince or whatever he really is, is more an instrument of wrath by the gawds, dealing out punishment as the gawds see fit. apparently, their little burg rocked a bit too hard. still, he's got no control over it, and the trio quickly learns to be on their best behaviour as not to get zapped any worse than they get zapped already. the treasure is certainly real, in the form of reward money for returning him to the proper temple, but since the visiting monks were fried with the blast, i don't know, they have to rely on the clues in the form of his tattoos to get him back.

pretty cheesy? yeah, maybe, lol.

but, the gawds are cruel: the prince's job is done and he needs taken care of. the monks are sent on an assassination mission, and rightfully so according to the gawds, but the reader doesn't really need to know this, just that someone is after them. the prince finds the temple, and due to his culminated sins along the way, starts to shake, rattle and roll at the end, about to blow up. all the people there thinks it's game over, but instead, and as the prince is going off about how they all deserve it, the arrogant self-righteous prick is the only one who gets zapped (his sins are doubtlessly very much based in twisting the religion).

does it get any worse than that? you could always throw in a hot lesbian sex scene. i recommend this for every story, doesn't matter what it is. it would off-set all the philosophical bullshit inherent in a story like that. (in retrospect, the guy probably has limited control over his gift, that way he can abuse it.)

tell me who your antagonist is and i'll come up with a completely different deal.

and in yet another alternative over the basic idea, the 'boy bomb' could have been sent there by the king's enemy and the survivors are forced to extract gawdly vengeance with him (providing protection, food and shelter in exchange for riches) upon the king's enemy, too, the enemy having struck a deal he didn't bargain for, i.e. that he'd have to pay for his own sins, also. i'd toss in a few more bandits for fodder as the boy exclaims, 'time to pay for your sins!' thus zapping the offenders for being truly evil men. the others survive being 'purged,' and have a clean slate to build their souls.

once the prince reaches the enemy city, he puts the city on trial. until the chick bandit produces a mirror from the gypsy wagon they heisted and says, 'purge yourself first, boy-gawd, if you've the divine right to destroy in the gawds' names. if your motives are like those of the gawds, you'll not suffer a jolt, will you? if you are truly what you claim, you may be judged by the ghosts of the innocent without fault, and it's written that the ghosts of the innocent shall have the gawds' ear. if you're righteous, purge yourself before us.' ...or some bullshit like that, eh?

uhm, how many alternatives can you stand, anyway? lol.

MilkChan123 · Aug 25, 2007

preyer said:
the hack in me would have had them all been captured as a reason why they were in the safest place, the dungeon, of the castle. then i probably would chuck my 'three buddies' idea and start with all three being strangers with the idea of going for that 'treasure of the sierra madre' mix of paranoia and mistrust. i'd leave the how and why of the prince's ability for later in the story (i might even make it an ability he can't control, something that'd been known to happen to very small degrees before, thus necessitating the need for a very strong castle with a very strong foundation, but it's was something none of them could predict every happening on that scale. anyway, i like the idea of this walking atomic bomb, not knowing when or if he's going to go off again at any given minute. when asked, 'why you? why the prince?' he throws his hands up and answers, 'i guess it has to be someone.' without knowing much else of the story, it's hard to say the exact reason, though personally i'd avoid it being a curse.)

prison is a good start, else i'd probably term them 'thieves' rather than 'bandits.' the former is what you'd expect lurking around alleyways, while the latter, merely in my opinion, conjures up the image of highwaymen. plus, tossing them all together might give you a group of ne'er-do-wells with different skill sets. my inner hack is always trying to find set-ups that provide (or deteroriate, however you want to look at it) as much sustainable drama as i might need (and the reader can stand ~ i hate stories where every possible thing that can go wrong does, right down to a loose screw on the catwalk which just happens to collapse at just the right moment... blech).

alternatively, the prince or whatever he really is, is more an instrument of wrath by the gawds, dealing out punishment as the gawds see fit. apparently, their little burg rocked a bit too hard. still, he's got no control over it, and the trio quickly learns to be on their best behaviour as not to get zapped any worse than they get zapped already. the treasure is certainly real, in the form of reward money for returning him to the proper temple, but since the visiting monks were fried with the blast, i don't know, they have to rely on the clues in the form of his tattoos to get him back.

pretty cheesy? yeah, maybe, lol.

but, the gawds are cruel: the prince's job is done and he needs taken care of. the monks are sent on an assassination mission, and rightfully so according to the gawds, but the reader doesn't really need to know this, just that someone is after them. the prince finds the temple, and due to his culminated sins along the way, starts to shake, rattle and roll at the end, about to blow up. all the people there thinks it's game over, but instead, and as the prince is going off about how they all deserve it, the arrogant self-righteous prick is the only one who gets zapped (his sins are doubtlessly very much based in twisting the religion).

does it get any worse than that? you could always throw in a hot lesbian sex scene. i recommend this for every story, doesn't matter what it is. it would off-set all the philosophical bullshit inherent in a story like that. (in retrospect, the guy probably has limited control over his gift, that way he can abuse it.)

tell me who your antagonist is and i'll come up with a completely different deal.

and in yet another alternative over the basic idea, the 'boy bomb' could have been sent there by the king's enemy and the survivors are forced to extract gawdly vengeance with him (providing protection, food and shelter in exchange for riches) upon the king's enemy, too, the enemy having struck a deal he didn't bargain for, i.e. that he'd have to pay for his own sins, also. i'd toss in a few more bandits for fodder as the boy exclaims, 'time to pay for your sins!' thus zapping the offenders for being truly evil men. the others survive being 'purged,' and have a clean slate to build their souls.

once the prince reaches the enemy city, he puts the city on trial. until the chick bandit produces a mirror from the gypsy wagon they heisted and says, 'purge yourself first, boy-gawd, if you've the divine right to destroy in the gawds' names. if your motives are like those of the gawds, you'll not suffer a jolt, will you? if you are truly what you claim, you may be judged by the ghosts of the innocent without fault, and it's written that the ghosts of the innocent shall have the gawds' ear. if you're righteous, purge yourself before us.' ...or some bullshit like that, eh?

uhm, how many alternatives can you stand, anyway? lol.

I like these ideas.
Though, if I'm going to put these in, I would need to completely start over.

Sorry, there can't be a lesbian sex scene. For that you need women. I don't (and will not) have female characters. But, there will be plenty of guy on guy action! Don't worry about that! o(^o^)o

If I'm making them strangers, I want Tavish and Stratton to already have somewhat of a history together so that will stay the same. Though, I might have to completely change Tavish's personality (he's a healer and a good fighter, but, he's sort of motherly. He worries alot about Stratton and Caelan. Especially Caelan since he's so young)

I'd planned out a whole backstory for my antagonist. I wanted the antagonist to be mysteriously sexy with a hidden past unknown to everyone but his followers that have been by his side since the beginning. (I'm writing this for the entertainment of my teenage female friends, okay!)
Antagonist and Attractive Friend find out the Silas is this "treasure" a while after he is born ("We can have this power! We just have to wait nineteen more years!"). Later, Antagonist and Attractive Friend become lovers and run away together after people find out the power they plan to have. Lover is killed in some way or form and Antagonist grieves.
I really like his story. I was really planning on having a whole chapter telling his story.

Silas probably won't have any tattoos. Maybe markings that have been there since he was born. Tattos really don't fit his personality (he's more of the shy, innocent type).
He probably won't go around punishing people. He's just not that kind of guy XD
There will be another character (well, so far two others), but, they don't play roles as big as the four leading men. One will be an old friend of Tavish (Valter) who lets them stay with him and his brother for a while at the beginning after the big event. Another is a man -whose name I have not yet decided) who, after visiting their city a few times as a kid, falls madly in love with Silas (nothing happens between them though. It's more one sided. I'm tempted to say more, but that'll ruin it!)
There might be more people coming in, I'm not really sure...
Though...I'm still trying to think of how to end it.

OddButInteresting · Aug 26, 2007

MilkChan123 said:
They don't really care much for it. Tavish is a servant and he's totally loyal to the prince. Stratton completely follows Tavish (even though he's younger). And Caelan...he's sort of the good guy (I don't know why I made one of those...I usually hate them so much, but, I actually like Caelan for some reason..weird).

I'm not going to be harsh, but I'm giving you the heads-up. The following criticism is entirely constructive, but I want to establish here that I'm not trying to piss on your parade.

Scrap the whole "trio of bandits" thing. A trio of friends is fine, but a gang of outlaws is inconsistent with the nature of the characters that you described above. Bandits DO NOT serve royalty.

They may be working on behalf of a corrupt government official, but they certainly wouldn't lead a double life as servants to an honest dignitary. As you said, the theft that kicks off the story will be their last, and Tavish bribes the guards to allow them to carry it out. But it just doesn't make sense that they would blindly protect the Prince like this. It was all sound until this point.

And whilst some bandits may be noble like Caelan, their moral standpoint tends to lean in favour of the poor and deprived. If anything, he should see the prince as an opportunity to strike gold. Perhaps even plan to sell him out at some point, until he realises that to do so could have dire consequences.

Tavish can remain a servant to the Prince, and Stratton can still follow Tavish's lead. But give Caelan a motive. Stock "good guys" are pretty bland, to be honest. A bandit may be good at heart, but desperation or obligation (to the poor, to his family, etc...) will force him to betray his good nature.

He should be torn between betraying the Prince and helping him, and the only reason for helping him should be that if the antagonist captures him, everyone's in deep shit. Well, not the only reason, but it's the clearest.

Be creative!

Just Me 2021 · Aug 26, 2007

I want to commend you for putting your ideas out here on a public forum, but wanted to encourage you to write it the book through before getting too much input because it's so hard to adequately describe all the aspects necessary before it's written. Some of this will come to you as you write. In fact, many of us do not outline before we write at all, so you can expect that the story will evolve and grow as you write it, and many things (such as the reason the three survive) will come to you in "aha" moments as you pound out the story. You may not figure out why they survived until chapter 20, and the beautiful thing is you can go back and write that reason in when it comes to you.

The story sounds intriguing. I commend your creativity. Do not doubt you can get published - write with hope that you will produce a story worthy of sitting on the shelf of Barnes and Noble - then revise and get input and revise again - and try to enjoy every step of the way.

Azraelsbane · Aug 26, 2007

Write first, fix later. Things that might sound unrealistic in the beginning stages might turn out to be a new, interesting twist later. You can make anything work if you think it through long enough, and justify it. ANYTHING. That's the fun part about being a writer. Doesn't make sense? Well gosh darn it, twist here, tweak there, and now...perfectly logical!

Good luck with this.

GeorgeK · Aug 26, 2007

Azraelsbane said:
I apologize if I took your post the wrong way, but you might want to be careful with your phrasing.

I've been known to throw a sarcastic/cutting remark now and again, and like usually recognizes like.

Well it wouldn't be the first time I was accused of being paranoid..I remember this one time in med school we were supposed to "role play a diagnosis in group therapy" and I pulled "paranoid schizophrenic". The teacher forgot it was "roleplay" and started calling the guys in the white coats...but anyway....but if they are out to get you then it's merely prudent caution. But seriously I do seem to lack a certain brain filter, that on rare occassion has been taken as mistaken condescension (is that the right word?) plus I don't really get emoticons. But seriously there was never any intent on my part to insult anyone... I think we are all done apologizing now

This idea

MilkChan123

In the end, it's just you and the manuscript

Agony is defeat

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Officially a practicing Novelist!

Where have the last ten years gone?

MilkChan123

:P

In the end, it's just you and the manuscript

ever seeking

Agony is defeat

MilkChan123

Reflections of Reality

MilkChan123

ever seeking

Agony is defeat

MilkChan123

excessively spartan

MilkChan123

Officially a practicing Novelist!

practical experience, FTW

Agony is defeat

ever seeking