Any gun lovers out there?

MelodyO · Aug 21, 2007

One of the characters in my WIP is a bounty hunter in LA. She uses a gun. I need to describe her putting it up against someone's head and threatening him.

I'm a Canadian who has never even seen a gun in real life. I've researched this until my eyes are crossed, and I still have no idea what I'm doing. Could someone please just tell me what I need to know?

-- would she have a revolver or a semi-automatic pistol or WHAT??
-- what make/model/caliber would it be?
-- she wants to show she means business; would she cock the hammer or take off the safety or WHAT?? Does anyone even say "cock the hammer"?
-- if you could just give me a couple of phrases that a person familiar with guns would use when handling one, I would cry with gratitude.

I know these are subjective questions, but believe me, whatever opinion you give me will be a lot more knowledgeable than what I've come up with.

Azraelsbane · Aug 21, 2007

Oh, this is right up my alley!

The truth of it is, that the possibilities are near endless. If it's modern day, it would likely be a semi-automatic. I wouldn't go into extremely loving detail on the gun if you don't have to, and by this point in the story wouldn't the reader already know what type of gun your MC is packing?

My MC in my first novel worked as a black market arms trafficker in her teen years (her surrogate father ran the show). She developed an obsession with firearms, and when she became a government assassin she was so paranoid that she carried some pretty heavy gear around 24/7.

Are you wanting a specific look? Or size? As in, would your guy be packing a smaller handgun, or a monster?

I'll try to find one of the scenes where my MC threatens someone with one of her guns.

Edit: Also, cocking the hammer wouldn't really work, unless it was an older pistol style gun. The newer semi-automatics you have to chamber the first round, and it goes to work from there.

A.M. Wildman · Aug 21, 2007

MelodyO said:
One of the characters in my WIP is a bounty hunter in LA. She uses a gun. I need to describe her putting it up against someone's head and threatening him.

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If she really knows how to handle a gun and understands the dangers of close quarters she wouldn't get close enough to touch him with it. For the simple fact at that range there's a good chance he could grab it and turn it on her.

-- would she have a revolver or a semi-automatic pistol or WHAT??

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Most likely she'd have a semi-auto.

-- what make/model/caliber would it be?

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either 9mm or .40 caliber pick a model Beretta, Browning, Smith and Wesson

-- she wants to show she means business; would she cock the hammer or take off the safety or WHAT?? Does anyone even say "cock the hammer"

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She could pull the hammer back. However, unless she's carrying one up the spout, racking the slide to cock the weapon as she brought it into play would get somebody's attention.

-- if you could just give me a couple of phrases that a person familiar with guns would use when handling one, I would cry with gratitude.

Click to expand...

She snatched her beretta 9mm from the shoulder holster, racked the slide, pointed at him and said....Or PM me for more.

Cathy C · Aug 21, 2007

Whether she uses a revolver versus a semi-auto is a case by case thing. It's TOUGH to get a concealed carry permit in California, though. She'd have to prove a need, and just being a private investigator might not be enough since they cracked down even tighter on the gun laws. Still, if she was "grandfathered" in under the older laws, I might suggest a Taurus .38. Taurus is a Brazil manufacturer of high-quality small guns. The one I have is a five shot revolver with a 3" barrel. The smaller grip fits a woman's hand better. I LOVE mine. It shoots a one-inch group right out of the box (meaning--since you don't shoot--that if you hold up the gun and point it at the center of the target, all five shots will be in a circle that's one inch in diameter.) That's darned good, and any professional would be proud to have a grouping that small.

You can also decide whether she reloads her own ammunition. A lot of handgun owners who shoot a lot for practice and in competitions do. I can give you some details about the process if it would help out.

Azraelsbane · Aug 21, 2007

Not the best paragraph, but meh...

I walked over to his sprawled form and pressed my foot to his chest, leaning over my knee. “Looks like you lost, and to a woman no less. Well, at least you don’t have to face the world with that fact. It’ll be our little secret.” I smirked, pulling a Beretta 9mm from behind my back and chambering the first round. Benedict’s eyes went wide as he spotted the weapon and he began shaking his head and squealing in opposition. “Just between you, me, and Satan.” I brought the gun down to his forehead and pulled the trigger, silencing his squeals instantaneously.

FloVoyager · Aug 21, 2007

Well, I'm no bounty hunter, but I was taught never to point a gun at somebody you don't mean to shoot--because accidents have happened. And you don't have a safety on a revolver. You pull the hammer back only when you mean to fire in the next few moments.

scarletpeaches · Aug 21, 2007

You might want to PM thethinker42. She's a bit handy with her weaponry too.

Susan Gable · Aug 21, 2007

Cathy C said:
Whether she uses a revolver versus a semi-auto is a case by case thing. I might suggest a Taurus .38. Taurus is a Brazil manufacturer of high-quality small guns. The one I have is a five shot revolver with a 3" barrel. .

Chalk me up as a semi fan. Glock, to be specific. We have a Glock 17, but if I had my choice, I'd actually get a 19, because it's got a smaller grip, and thus fits better in my hand. (The 19 and 17 are both 9 mm weapons. They don't have a safety, and they don't have a hammer, either. You pull back the slide to chamber the first round.)

That feel of the grip in the hand is important.

Please, please make sure your characters are trained to keep their finger along the side of the barrel, NOT on the trigger, until they mean to fire the weapon.

Susan G.

PS - I strongly recommend anyone writing gun-firing characters get to a local range and actually fire a weapon. It's very different from what you imagine. The first time I got burned by a discharged shell casing, I thought, "Damn, you never see that in a movie, or read about it." <G> (This is also why you wear protective goggles at the range. <G>)

DeadlyAccurate · Aug 21, 2007

Susan Gable said:
Chalk me up as a semi fan. Glock, to be specific. We have a Glock 17, but if I had my choice, I'd actually get a 19, because it's got a smaller grip, and thus fits better in my hand. (The 19 and 17 are both 9 mm weapons. They don't have a safety, and they don't have a hammer, either. You pull back the slide to chamber the first round.)

This is why personal preference is so important. I have very small hands (size 4 ring) and I love my G17. It just feels like my gun (which it is, but you know what I mean). My husband has a G27, and while I like it well enough, I love the way my gun feels. I can shoot it one-handed (right) with nearly the same accuracy as I can two-handed.

Please, please make sure your characters are trained to keep their finger along the side of the barrel, NOT on the trigger, until they mean to fire the weapon.

God, yes. Nothing more irritating than an "expert" on guns who doesn't have a clue how to even hold one. (Seen more in movies/TV than books.)

The first time I got burned by a discharged shell casing, I thought, "Damn, you never see that in a movie, or read about it." <G> (This is also why you wear protective goggles at the range. <G>)

The last time I went to the range, a spent casing flew up and inside my goggles and rested on my cheek. Since I'd been firing quite a few rounds, the gun was hot and the casings were sizzling. I had a small first degree burn there for several days. I'm proud to say my finger went off the trigger and the muzzle was pointed down range while I was trying to keep my head about me and remove the burning metal from my flesh.

As for the OP, I would actually avoid naming a make and model if it's not necessary. It's easy to make silly mistakes (like talking about hammers and safety levers on Glocks). I think most modern semi-autos are double action, meaning you can fire a chambered round either by just squeezing the trigger (it's a harder pull) or by cocking the hammer and then squeezing the trigger. For an unchambered round, you would rack the slide first (or hit the slide release) and then squeeze the trigger.

If you want to keep it very simple, give her a Glock, and have her just pull it from her holster, aim, and shoot. My G17 has a 17-round magazine, for the record, but it's not a concealable weapon (well, I suppose it is if you really want to conceal it). You don't get to cock the hammer for dramatic effect that way, but then again, you don't have to worry about leaving the safety on when it comes time to use the gun either.

Here's my favorite site for when I need to know what a gun looks like: http://www.world.guns.ru/main-e.htm

A.M. Wildman · Aug 21, 2007

DeadlyAccurate said:
.)

The last time I went to the range, a spent casing flew up and inside my goggles and rested on my cheek. Since I'd been firing quite a few rounds, the gun was hot and the casings were sizzling. I had a small first degree burn there for several days. I'm proud to say my finger went off the trigger and the muzzle was pointed down range while I was trying to keep my head about me and remove the burning metal from my flesh.

That's always rough. Wait till you have a couple go sliding down your shirt and coming to rest on the nice sensitve skin at the small of the back. Unfortunately, for me we were firing automatic weapons in an enclosed practice area, Three right down the t-shirt at once.

GeorgeK · Aug 21, 2007

From the standpoint of someone with nerve damage, your lady with the pistol might like to know that with a semi-auto-pistol it takes two hands to pull the slide whereas with a revolver it takes only one, to pull back the hammer. If she's a "tough bitch" she might like to watch the "Dirty Harry" movies (Clint Eastwood), if she's just a hard nosed mama, then watch "The outlaw Josey Wales" (also Clint Eastwood). Clint likes to put some closeups of the firearms and sometimes a little info, like, "This is the third most powerful handgun ever made and could blow your head clean off, so tell me, do you feel lucky punk?"

Ok the quote might not be exact, the movies did come out in the 70's and 80's.

DeadlyAccurate · Aug 21, 2007

A.M. Wildman said:
That's always rough. Wait till you have a couple go sliding down your shirt and coming to rest on the nice sensitve skin at the small of the back. Unfortunately, for me we were firing automatic weapons in an enclosed practice area, Three right down the t-shirt at once.

I've had a couple land inside my bra, though they never burned like the one on my cheek.

GeorgeK · Aug 21, 2007

DeadlyAccurate said:
God, yes. Nothing more irritating than an "expert" on guns who doesn't have a clue how to even hold one. (Seen more in movies/TV than books.)

There is a difference between target shooting and defending your life, or hunting. The first rule of firearms (No not guns, that's something else entirely) is don't pull it if you are not willing to kill with it. You can't shoot if your finger isn't on the trigger.

But yes I think I understand where you are coming from, (visualizing some street punk on TV waving a pistol around...that is neither hunting, nor "gun" safety.

MelodyO · Aug 21, 2007

Thank you all so much for your quick and terrific answers.

Now that you've got me narrowing things down, I realize that she needs something small, because she has it hidden on her person. She doesn't need a concealed carry permit because she is lawless, I tell ya. LAWLESS. But she has a heart of gold.

She's also in a life-or-death predicament (not hers), so she's quite willing to kill the bad guy. He can't die, though, because he has to live to annoy them throughout the rest of the book. Yay!

Rep points for everyone! ::tosses them like rice at a wedding::

Cathy C · Aug 21, 2007

Ooo! Good point on the handbag. Galco sells a nifty line of concealed carry handbags for semi-autos like Glocks and Walthers. But I still like revolvers, just for the reason of hot brass flying around. I wear glasses, and a round once melted a nice little line down the plastic lens. Annoying. Plus, I like to reload my own ammo, so wasted brass is like pouring money down the drain.

With a revolver, I just pop open the cylinder, drop the brass in my pocket and grab a speed loader to refill. It's just as fast as snapping in a new clip.

GeorgeK · Aug 21, 2007

DeadlyAccurate said:
I've had a couple land inside my bra, though they never burned like the one on my cheek.

Trust me, that's nothing like being blinded by powderburns....waiting five days til they take off the bandages to tell if you can see again.

Azraelsbane · Aug 21, 2007

MelodyO said:
Thank you all so much for your quick and terrific answers.

Now that you've got me narrowing things down, I realize that she needs something small, because she has it hidden on her person. She doesn't need a concealed carry permit because she is lawless, I tell ya. LAWLESS. But she has a heart of gold. She's also in a life-or-death predicament (not hers), so she's quite willing to kill the bad guy. He can't die, though, because he has to live to annoy them throughout the rest of the book. Yay!

Rep points for everyone! ::tosses them like rice at a wedding::

Here's a pic of my Ruger SP101. It's a .357 magnum. It's compact, and would be easy to hide. It doesn't need to be cocked, as the hammer pulls back when you squeeze the trigger. This makes the trigger a slightly harder tug, (as in, not so easy to accidentally fire it), and there is no safety.

FloVoyager · Aug 21, 2007

Cathy C said:
But I still like revolvers, just for the reason of hot brass flying around.

Amen. Then all you have to worry about, at the range, are the folks next to you with the semi-autos. I always try to get a stall far down by myself for this reason. Our brand new range doesn't have sides on the stalls like the old one did. And they call this progress?

Another thing I like about revolvers is that they don't jam. Occasionally, you get a shell that doesn't fire, but that's about it--provided you keep your weapon clean and in good working order.

A friend and I went to the range a while back. Me with my 38 special, and she with her small 9mm semi-auto something or other. Her gun jammed twice, as I recall.

And I'd like to second Susan Gable's suggestion that you actually go fire a weapon at the range. If nothing else, it will give you a new appreciation for just how deadly these weapons can be. They are surprisingly loud, and the power of the explosion is sobering.

A.M. Wildman · Aug 21, 2007

Barbarique said:
In my novel, one of the characters, a petite young woman, finds herself in desperate circumstances and must fire a Casull .454 Super Redhawk. The consequences are extremely dire.

Ouch...

I wouldn't even like that and I'm 6' 3" with huge hands, and used to run 158 grain semi-wadcutters through my .357 for target practice..

Doogs · Aug 21, 2007

Slightly off topic, but if you're looking for a novel that knows its guns, check out John Ross' Unintended Consequences. It's very paranoid in a big, bad government kind of way, but a fun read, at least in my opinion (and very, very detailed with the guns).

JJ Cooper · Aug 21, 2007

Couple of quick opinions. If your MC is professional she won't have the weapon within arms distance of the bad guy (as mentioned above) and if she shoots her weapon she should be aiming at the centre of the mass of the target. (ie torso). Double tap (two very quick shots in sucession) is normal.

My FMC carries a Glock 17 and my MMC carries a 9 mm Browning. And thanks the advice and references provided by A.M. Wildman, I can fit the Browning with a silencer.

JJ

Azraelsbane · Aug 21, 2007

JJ Cooper said:
Couple of quick opinions. If your MC is professional she won't have the weapon within arms distance of the bad guy (as mentioned above) and if she shoots her weapon she should be aiming at the centre of the mass of the target. (ie torso). Double tap (two very quick shots in sucession) is normal.

JJ

I don't think it's such a big deal for them to always have the gun away from the person. In general, yes, but it depends on the situation.

If the person is bound, or brutalized to the point where they definitely aren't going to have the means of grabbing the gun, I could see it being closer (even though this is usually for the "badass" effect, and it would be MUCH cleaner from far away). If your MC has anywhere she wants to go directly afterwards, close is bad, as she'd likely have a decent amount of gore going on depending on the position.

Also, if it's important to you that your MC points the gun at the antagonist's head (as in directly against it), you could have her sneak up behind him and do a base of the skull push. There'd still be the chance of the bad guy turning around and grabbing for the gun, but I know if someone had the barrel of a gun shoved in the back of my neck I'd be doing very little moving.

Also, she's a bounty hunter, not an assassin, so is she even all that skilled at killing people, or just threatening them? I think that makes a big difference as well.

wayndom · Aug 21, 2007

The answers to your questions are as follows:

She carries a Glock .40 caliber Smith & Wesson.

The "Smith & Wesson" part refers to the bullet it fires, not the brand of gun.

The Glock is the first real advance in handgun technology since Browning introduced the 1911, commonly known as the Colt .45 automatic.

The Glock has no external safety (meaning it has no safety "switch" to be turned on or off). It's the first successful automatic design that can be carried in complete safety while being immediately ready to fire (i.e., you don't have to switch it from "safe" to "ready").

The "revolver vs. automatic" argument was largely put to rest in the late 80's, when FBI agents in Miami, armed with revolvers, were slaughtered by drug-dealers armed with automatics, including submachine guns. The ultimate result of this disaster was that virtually all law-enforcement in America (finally) switched over to automatics, joining the rest of the world.

The two most commonly-used calibers in the world are the 9mm parabellum and the (previously used by virtually all US police and the FBI) .38 police special. The two bullets have almost identical ballistics, and both lack what's known as "stopping power."

Stopping power is different from lethality. Almost any gun is lethal, but the wound it causes might cause death many days later. For someone whose life is in danger, what's needed is a wound that will immediately incapacitate the attacker;i.e., turn them off like a light.

With a solid torso shot, a 9mm or .38 special will turn a person off like a light 50% of the time. A .45 will do it 95% of the time. The .45, however, has a brutal kick and requires considerable training to fire with accuracy. The SW (Smith & Wesson) .40 caliber bullet is an attempt at making a more effective round (closer to the .45), more controllable (more like the 9mm) round.

To this day, American Special Forces soldiers (who can choose whatever weapons they want) largely choose the .45. The 1911 (.45 auto) is a single-action auto, meaning that the hammer must be cocked for the gun to fire. After each shot, the gun automatically ejects the spent shell, loads a fresh shell into the chamber, and cocks the hammer (hence the name, automatic). But the hammer must be cocked for the first shot -- pulling the trigger doesn't cock the hammer (as it does on a revolver or a Glock automatic).

So if your protag uses a 1911, she would certainly cock the hammer first.

And, as I see another poster has noted, if she's professional, she would never come within arm's reach of the person she wants to shoot. Any trained person can disarm an armed opponent in less time than the opponent can react, and no professional would allow their opponent to get that close.

And by the way, if your protag goes with a 1911, and you call it a 1911 in your story, any gun-freaks who read it will immediately fall in love with you.

wayndom · Aug 21, 2007

Cathy C said:
Whether she uses a revolver versus a semi-auto is a case by case thing. It's TOUGH to get a concealed carry permit in California, though.

That's true, but it's also true that carrying a concealed handgun in California is only a misdemeanor, while (strangely), carrying a concealed club or knife is a felony.

Go figure...

JLCwrites · Aug 21, 2007

Isn't Glock the standard issue for law enforcement here in the states? It was quite a few years ago.

Personal experience: Was given the wrong ammo for a .357 I rented. Had a couple of 9mm tucked into the magazine. Wow! That was a surprise!

Also shot with .22 lever action, and a 30/30. (rifles) Both are fun. Of course those are not for close range. But if you are interested in a distance scene, those are good choices. Less recoil. (which is something else to keep in mind.) I don't think I could handle a .45 or 30/06. I'd loose my shoulder!

Any gun lovers out there?

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