Do You Copyright your songs on Myspace?

You have like a billion posts, rhymegirl. I know you know how copyright works. What are you trying to ask?

I don't have a MySpace page, but I've got a Soundclick (I gues it's Myspace for old farts) page with some of my original songs on it. I've not taken any steps to register or othewise protect my (automatically given by the US Copyright Law) copyright, other than adding the text "Copyright <year>, Ben Bradley."

I'd dearly love someone to take one or more of those songs and make a hit out of them. You don't even have to ask first. Go ahead, make my day...

what is that supposed to mean

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Because I'm sure you know that your work is copyrighted as soon as you write it down (or record it), so of course everything on MySpace is copyrighted, except for the stuff that specifically says "I place this work in the public domain."

Now we get to the point--you're asking if anyone registers the copyright. That's different.

Neither one protects your work from being stolen, much like the way a stop sign doesn't actually prevent a vehicle from entering an intersection. You could compare a copyright to a stop sign and a registered copyright to a cop holding up an open palm. It's the same crime, but the enforcement in the second case has more teeth.

On MySpace, I don't think it really matters. You could threaten to blow up people who steal your music, and if they like it, they'll steal it anyway, because people have these crazy ideas that stealing is somehow not stealing.

LloydBrown said:

Because I'm sure you know that your work is copyrighted as soon as you write it down (or record it), so of course everything on MySpace is copyrighted, except for the stuff that specifically says "I place this work in the public domain."

Now we get to the point--you're asking if anyone registers the copyright. That's different.

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And now that she asks about registration, it shows she at least knows something about the US copyright laws.

From the posts on the Usenet newsgroup rec.music.makers.songwriting, those who do register their song copyrights usually do so yearly as a compilation of all the songs they wrote for a year, and include a CD-R or cassette (old-fashioned, but might last longer than a CD-R) recording of all the songs. This way it only costs the $45 registration fee for all their songs for the year.

LloydBrown said:

Neither one protects your work from being stolen, much like the way a stop sign doesn't actually prevent a vehicle from entering an intersection. You could compare a copyright to a stop sign and a registered copyright to a cop holding up an open palm. It's the same crime, but the enforcement in the second case has more teeth.

On MySpace, I don't think it really matters. You could threaten to blow up people who steal your music, and if they like it, they'll steal it anyway, because people have these crazy ideas that stealing is somehow not stealing.

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Oh, well that's different from what I was thinking of. You can set your MySpace songs for either stream-only (they have to go to your MySpace page to hear it) or to allow MP3 download (where they can play it on their computer or copy it to their iPod and hear it anytime). It's not too hard to 'crack' straming audio and save it to a file, and that's definitely copyright infringement.

As far as musical work being stolen, I was thinking of someone re-recording a song and claiming they wrote it. If they make a hit tune out of it, you can complain all the way to court, and then all the way to the bank. If not, and they're not famous in any way, it's probably not worth having a lawyer write them a letter.

Rhymegirl, which were you most worried about (not that it matters, I'm just wondering) - unpaid/unauthorized downloads, or another musician/group claiming they wrote your song?

Wait. Ben, are you saying that you can register a compilation for one fee? I thought each song had to have it's own registration? Is the protection the same? I need to look into this.

I have songs on MySpace. Someone stealing them is that last thing I worry about.

P.H. Yes, you can copyright compilations. You can do this with short stories, too. Not only is the entirety of your work protected, but the individual components have the same protection. It's just cheaper.

benbradley said:

And now that she asks about registration, it shows she at least knows something about the US copyright laws.

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Which was my assumption from the beginning, and thus the reason I assumed she meant something other than what she asked. Everyone in a Berne Convention country copyrights their work before they place it, because it's automatic. So the correct answer to her question would have been "yes", but that wouldn't have explained anything. Hence my solicitation for different wording. I had no intention of insulting or offending anyone. Just trying to help.

P.H.Delarran said:

Wait. Ben, are you saying that you can register a compilation for one fee? I thought each song had to have it's own registration? Is the protection the same? I need to look into this.

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I've read this many times from many people on the newsgroup (that they register all the songs they wrote in a certain time period as a compilation for the single $45 fee), so I can only guess it does. I read that with registering a compilation, a copy of each song (printed sheet music and/or sound recording) is in the Library of Congress under the compilation registration, so it's protected, but if there's dispute coming out of a specific song, you'd have to also register that specific song, but you could register it after the dispute arises and still be fully protected.
Here's one post mentioning registering a compilation:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.music.makers.songwriting/msg/4c16b50e5f805032?hl=en&

I googled with this search string:
song compilation site:copyright.gov
and found several pages on compilations, but it looks like the word may mean different things in different contexts. So actually I'm not absolutely sure.

Usual disclaimers apply, IANAL, etc.

To most people, that would have been obvious.

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If it were obvious, I wouldn't have needed to ask.

I would not be able to prove it if I don't register it.

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Yes, you can. You can show earlier copies, writing circle critiques, and other evidence of its growth and development. You can provide statements from beta readers. That's much more effective than your imposter merely claiming a date because the imposter won't have similar evidence.

The primary difference between a copyright and a registered copyright is not proof. It's what damages you can sue for. Without registration, you can sue for actual damages. With registration, you can sue for punitive damages. So if somebody reprints your short story in an anthology without your permission, you can sue for a fraction of the book's sales, even without registration. If you have a registered copyright on that work, you can also seek punitive damages. For example, you could sue for $5,000 actual damages, plus $25,000 in punitive damages (punitive damages are often a multiple of the actual damages).

Why do authors have copyrights on their novels?

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Do you mean "why do authors register their copyrights?" Well, for one, they don't. Publishers do it for them. It's not pointless, for the reasons given above. Also, the astute reader will notice I never claimed that copyright registration was "pointless."

Rhymegirl, I'm a composer, I've got lots of stuff up on my website. I've never copywritten any of it. I'd love someone to try and use it in a film without obtaining permission first (which I'd gladly give) because then I could make a mint.

I'd be flattered if someone stole something and claimed they wrote it, but I doubt that would ever happen. Alas, won't you visit my site and tell me what you think? http://www.daviddepalo.com
My work has been a little slow lately and I could use some word-of-mouth.

Damn I wish I was a director. You practically just gave permission to steal your work !

Hehe I know, sarcasm... But come on, come on hehe.

Hi Rhymegirl,

I ALWAYS show a copyright notice with any Song, Song Lyric, or Poem I post, but simply as a NOTIFICATION of when they were written, and I don't formally register any of them because it would be cost prohibitive even if they were registered in batches, as I have almost 200 poems, another 200 Haiku, Senryu and Lesser Verse, 55 Song lyrics, and 17 completed Songs, (and batch copyrights present problems, too, when dealing with individual works), but I never worry about being ripped off, partly because I have adequate records of when my works were created and when and where they've been posted, and partly because anyone who did so would be stuck with having to match MY quality in anything and everything else they did from that point on, and I firmly believe that FEW if ANY could do so. so they would only be hurting themselves in the long run, even if I wasn't able to take them to court.

Keep adequate records, by all means, but don't worry over-much about "Piracy" at least on this level. The stealing of Poetry is generally confined to petty attempts on Internet Forums for "Ego Satisfaction", and seldom extends to any attempt at Formal "Publication", (which pays little if anything, in any case), and the biggest problems in the Music Industry lie in "illegal" sampling of performance riffs, and Piracy and Sale of finished CDs/DVDs.

Hope this eases your mind.

Jim Hoye, (JRH)

Sometimes it's not on purpose though. Enigma(well the guy behind the project), accidentally, illegally sampled a Taiwanese couple. Traditional Taiwanese throat singing(which does sound very much like Native American singing/chants). Aboriginal music, you know. So the guy got permission and paid rights to Sony(because they were claiming it was theirs to do with as they saw fit, more or less), and he used it in "Return To Innocence" and got sued for a whole lot of money. Long story short the Taiwanese couple's much better off now(though no younger as they were elderly at the time, but at least comfortable and that's good).

Always copyright your songs before posting them anywhere.

Duh.

I love that "it's copyrighted as soon as you write it down thing."

That always goes well in court.

"I wrote it on a napkin back in 1983. Here's the napkin."

:eye roll with a bit of a head shake emoticon:

Hey Billy,

The concept of copyright when written does well enough in court to protect you if you have decent documentation. What it doesn't do, as Lloyd Brown stated above, is help in claiming punitive damages beyond recouping any profit that was made.

As for registering every song you post, anywhere, I've only got 55 songs, and I can't afford it as I'm retired with only a small set income.

People with hundreds or thousands of songs would have to be millionaires (or at least successfully publishing every tenth song, and making money on them) to come close to breaking even.

Are you really that rich, (Or think that everyone else is)?

JRH

JRH said:

Hey Billy,

The concept of copyright when written does well enough in court to protect you if you have decent documentation. What it doesn't do, as Lloyd Brown stated above, is help in claiming punitive damages beyond recouping any profit that was made.

As for registering every song you post, anywhere, I've only got 55 songs, and I can't afford it as I'm retired with only a small set income.

People with hundreds or thousands of songs would have to be millionaires (or at least successfully publishing every tenth song, and making money on them) to come close to breaking even.

Are you really that rich, (Or think that everyone else is)?

JRH

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It costs $30 to register a song.

How do you arrive at the "have to be a millionaire to register 100's of songs/breaking even thing."

I have 100 songs.

I plan on recording 12 of them over the next six months.

They are still not copyrighted.

I will be spending $360 dollars to copyright the entire album of songs before recording them.

So, I don't know what you are talking about.

I will not be relying on the fact that because they are in my computer they are copyrighted.

I was being facetious Billy, to make a point, because submitting those 100 songs would represent $3000 for you if you copyrighted all 100 of them and that's not a small chunk of change.

If you really wanted to save money, (at least at the outset), you could copyright your set of 12 songs on one copyright as an album, which is nice and economical until you try to have one of them published by itself and find you have to assign the whole album to the publisher, (which he may not want) or recopyright that individual song and do that again with each individual song as it is published.

The point I and others have tried to make is that you're not nearly as much at risk as you think you are. It's true that there's more risk with venues like "You Tube" and "My Space" out there but "Acid Planet" has been out there for much much longer than either and I've never had any trouble or heard of anybody having any trouble.

The truth is that anyone stealing someone's song has to have the skills to exploit it and very few do. (and if they succeed, they will be faced with having to repeat any success they find, or risk being found out, even if they're not challenged in court).

The biggest problem with copyright infringements on individual songs comes from duplication of arrangements or melody lines, rather than outright theft. It does happen but it is rare and hard to pin down because many songs are recorded in the same studios by the same musicians and thus appear to be infringements when they are in fact not.

True copyright infringement of individual songs happens very seldom and more often than not is successfully proscecuted, regardless of whether the copyright was registered or not.

Most infringement cases currently are based on mechanical usage via illegal commercial use like the Capitol Records lawsuit for copyright infringement against Nike some 20 years ago. Nike legally obtained permission to use the Beatles song title "Revolution" from the title's owner, Michael Jackson. They used the Capitol Records owned recording of the Beatle's performance, but failed to obtain and pay for permission and use. Capitol Records sued and prevailed because Nike ONLY had a license to use the title and did not have a license to use the mechanical recording.)

Most of the rest are against pirates like Napster, who illegally provide users with songs without payment for use, and both of those infringements are concerned with commercially recorded songs not with original demos played in public.

If you are more comfortable copyrighting every thing you record and can afford to do so, by all means, do so, but I personally believe you're over-reacting to what I believe to be a MINIMAL threat.

Good luck with whatever you do.

Jim Hoye, (JRH)

The current registration fee is $45, by the way. It went up at the beginning of the year--this year, I think.

JRH said:

If you really wanted to save money, (at least at the outset), you could copyright your set of 12 songs on one copyright as an album, which is nice and economical until you try to have one of them published by itself and find you have to assign the whole album to the publisher, (which he may not want) or recopyright that individual song and do that again with each individual song as it is published.

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I'm getting ready to copyright my songs, but I just don't get this.

Instead of one at a time for $45 a pop, I should just put all twelve down on ONE C.D. and copyright the "album" under the album name?

Makes me nervous.

And do I send in lyrics too? I have the SR forms but I don't see anything about lyrics. I just see about sending in the recording.

Anyone?

Thanks.