Can you help with this brief passage?

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underthecity

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A second-main character in my novel, Linda, is 30, a blonde-haired, blue-eyed California hottie. She's married to Greg, who is currently wrapped up in his project and is spending less time with her.

My intention is to show that Linda is attractive by having men flirt with her when she goes someplace by herself. As a counterpoint, she knows she's attractive and inadvertantly flirts right back to get what she wants without even being aware of it.

I'm currently working this out in a chapter I'm currently stuck on and am asking for help to make it right.

I'm also not sure if a real woman would react the way Linda does in this scene.

The setup: Linda is doing some newspaper microfilm research at the local library right before closing time.

***

“Miss?”

Linda looked up from the microfilm machine. A good-looking young man with wavy brown hair was leaning toward her, his arms behind his back.

Linda’s heart started beating harder. What was this all about? “Yes?” she asked, trying to keep her voice from squeaking. Damn, this guy was cute!

“The library’s closing.”

She lowered her head and gazed upwards at him. “Can I have just another second?” she asked in a small voice. “I sure would like to print this.”

The man straightened up and grinned. “Certainly. Anything for a young lady like yourself. Take all the time you need.” He backed away smiling and went to the shelves.

She smirked to herself and dropped her last dime into the machine and printed the article. He was clearly flirting with her and she loved the attention. Sometimes she had to get it where she could. Greg didn’t even pay her compliments any more, not like he used to.

She gathered her papers and went to the elevator thanking the librarian on the way. He smiled back and waved goodbye. “Hope you come back and see us again real soon,” he said as she walked passed him. “I’m always here. Always happy to help out.”

She waved to him again as she climbed on the elevator. She felt happy that she still had “it,” whatever it was that men fell over themselves for. She wished Greg would make that kind of effort. Well, he would have to do something if they were going to make a baby together.
 

CaroGirl

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I'm a real woman! I think it sounds pretty good. The only bit I don't agree with is how nervous she is at the start, in the face of his "cuteness". I think a "real woman" - who was so in the middle of something important she didn't realize the library was closing- wouldn't snap so easily from intent on her work, to "damn this guy's cute".

But the rest of the scene rings pretty true.
 

Marlys

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I worked in a public library for several years. It's perfectly normal that someone would allow a patron to finish printing, especially a single page.

I do question how they speak to each other. You've described him as a "young man" and say she's 30 years old, so they're probably near the same age or she's a bit older. But he calls her "Miss" and "young lady," both of which sound odd to me in that context. And the small voice suggests she's doing the little-girl bit, which again is odd for a woman her age talking to a young man. A warm smile, a gaze held too long, a sidelong look--they seem more likely flirting tactics for a woman in her thirties.

Unless it's a very small library, he's probably not a librarian either, but a computer lab assistant.

But the basic situation--a little flirting, a friendly library worker giving her an extra few seconds to finish up--that's fine.
 

c.e.lawson

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This is a fun little scene. You're nice and close to your MC. I liked that.

I didn't mind the "Damn, this guy was cute!" Copying something doesn't take much thought, so I didn't have a problem with her switching from the task to assessing the looks of the guy. I thought it was a natural reaction from someone who feels neglected in the flirtation department at home. I actually liked the woman's behavior and dialogue and internal monologue a lot - sounded very natural to me.

I had more of a problem with the guy's dialogue. It sounded a little too formal. Not the "Miss." I think some men are uncomfortable calling a "youngish" attractive woman Ma'am because it sounds old, so the Miss sounded fine to me. But the "Certainly" sounded formal. And I didn't like the "Anything for a young lady like yourself. That sounded forced. What about - Of course. or OK. or All right. and then have his gaze linger as she feels her cheeks warm or something. And then he doesn't leave but asks her if she needs any help or something.

And then his parting words to her - three sentences seems like a lot for him to say.

Lastly - why don't you describe what's good-looking about him instead of just saying 'good-looking'? Show us what you mean by good looking. When you use vague terms like that then the reader pulls themselves out of the story, even if for a second, to try to figure out what you mean by it.
 

Danger Jane

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“Certainly. Anything for a young lady like yourself. Take all the time you need.”

Yeah, that seems a little stilted. Couldn't he just say, "Of course. Take your time." ?

And yeah, I'd describe the specific features rather than call him good-looking. a few choice details will take up the same amount of words but get the job done much more efficiently.
 

underthecity

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Thanks everyone for the advice.

Carogirl, she is already aware that the library's about to close. She's rushing through the microfilm.

Marlys, you're right about the "young man," so I've changed it to "young guy." I'm not sure if that's an improvement, but it seems to make her feel not so "old" to me to say "guy" and not "man." And her use of the "little girl voice" is supposed to indicate that she's done this routine before to get what she wants. I mean, it's hard to to turn down a hot girl's request, especially if she she acts that way (speaking as a guy, I mean). And he may be a computer lab assistant, but for all Linda knows, he's a librarian because he works in a library.

And c.e. lawson, thanks for the comments. And it seems I definitely need to work more on the dialog, as I always seem to be. And I'll further describe the "young guy," in just a brief sentence. He's a one-off character who doesn't even have a name (I invented him last night) and exists solely for this scene. And I can lose one or two of the three sentences.

I just need to figure out what constitutes as "good looking."

ETA: How about this:

Linda’s heart started beating harder. What was this all about? “Yes?” she asked, trying to keep her voice from squeaking. Damn, this guy was cute! Wisps of hair fell across the forehead of his roundish face, and his small round eyeglasses caught the glint of the overhead lights. He looked all of twenty years old.

allen
 
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Danger Jane

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Roundish + librarian makes me think pudgy. Also, roundISH is...wishy washy. How about his CHISELED face?
 

Little Red Barn

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Give him a dimple too like Sawyer on "Lost" ;)
 

underthecity

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Round face, round glasses, and dimples. Sounds cute to me!

And Danger Jane, I'm basing him on a guy I used to know who in fact did kind of resemble this librarian. But I can change him any way I'd like; it's what makes me God of the Novel.

allen
 

Xx|e|ph|e|me|r|al|xX

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Xx|Just to add, I liked the way he spoke. For a library worker, it sounds bookish enough, but just a tad overdone to be flirty. Something more casual...I just can't see. It's your character, and if you intended to be casual, well, that didn't happen. But if you intended him to be that way, I love it. :3

I have an affinity for the gentlemanly types. Don't mind me. :tongue
|xX
 

underthecity

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Thanks for all the help and suggestions. Sometimes I get bogged down on the simplest of scenes and just can't move on.

If you're interested, here's the revised scene:


“Miss?”

Linda looked up from the microfilm machine. A good-looking young guy with wavy brown hair was leaning toward her, his arms behind his back.

Her heart started beating harder. What was this all about? “Yes?” she asked, trying to keep her voice from squeaking. Damn, this guy was cute! Wisps of hair fell across the forehead of his roundish face, and his small circular eyeglasses caught the glint of the overhead lights. He looked all of twenty years old.

“The library’s closing.”

She lowered her head and gazed upwards at him. “Can I have just another second?” she asked in a small voice. “I sure would like to print this.”

The librarian straightened up and grinned, dimples appearing in his cheeks. “Of course. Take all the time you need.” He backed away smiling, his blue eyes lingering on her as he returned to the desk.

She felt her face grow warm as she smirked to herself. She dropped her last dime into the machine and printed the article. He was clearly flirting with her and she loved the attention. Sometimes she had to get it where she could. Greg didn’t even pay her compliments any more, not like he used to.

She gathered her papers and went to the elevator thanking the librarian on the way. He smiled back and waved goodbye. “Hope you come back and see us again real soon,” he said as she walked passed him, his eyes following her. “I’m always here.”

She waved to him again as she climbed on the elevator. She felt happy that she still had “it,” whatever it was that men fell over themselves for. She wished Greg would make that kind of effort. Well, he would have to do something if they were going to make a baby together.
 

c.e.lawson

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I like your rewrite! I think you could delete the "good-looking", though. She says he's cute and you have a cute description of him, so I think that's just superfluous now. The dialogue sounds much more natural to me. And his eyes on her is a good touch. Nice job!

Now get on to your next scene. :)
 

AnnieColleen

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Just one thing that jumped out at me:

You say:
As a counterpoint, she knows she's attractive and inadvertantly flirts right back to get what she wants without even being aware of it.

But then in the (revised) scene:
He was clearly flirting with her and she loved the attention. Sometimes she had to get it where she could. Greg didn’t even pay her compliments any more, not like he used to.
and
She felt happy that she still had “it,” whatever it was that men fell over themselves for. She wished Greg would make that kind of effort.

Now, these come after the action and there's no mention before, so it could be that her flirting was inadvertent and she realized afterwards what she was doing, but it doesn't read that way to me. If she's this consciously thinking about it, without any sort of moment of realization, it looks to me like she knew exactly what was going on while it was happening.

It was also a bit jarring to me to have her feelings spelled out here. Is she consciously thinking she loved the attention? If not, it's the narrator stepping into what's otherwise a close-in POV...and "She felt" is definitely the narrator. These lines could probably be streamlined into her thoughts to strengthen the effect you want.

(Of course if you don't want that close of POV, disregard that response!)
 

Danger Jane

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dimples appearing in his cheeks.

Maybe just "showing his dimples"?

And I agree with AnnieColleen about the conscious thought thing.

But good work! The scene does flow better now.
 

underthecity

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Thanks everyone for the very helpful comments.

And regarding the use of "certainly" versus "of course:" I use "certainly" in my own everday speech, so that's why it crept in there.

AnnieColleen, you raised a very critical point with this character:

so it could be that her flirting was inadvertent and she realized afterwards what she was doing, but it doesn't read that way to me. If she's this consciously thinking about it, without any sort of moment of realization, it looks to me like she knew exactly what was going on while it was happening.

It was also a bit jarring to me to have her feelings spelled out here. Is she consciously thinking she loved the attention? If not, it's the narrator stepping into what's otherwise a close-in POV...and "She felt" is definitely the narrator. These lines could probably be streamlined into her thoughts to strengthen the effect you want

Thanks for that analysis. I will have to rewrite those portions because with the character of Linda, she is conscious of men flirting with her and she loves the attention, but she is not really aware that she is also flirting. To her, she is just trying to act "girlish" and use her good looks to get what she wants, and it comes across as shameless flirting.

So, part of the passage is unclear on that point and I'll have to do some adjusting.

Thanks! That's why I love this forum.

Rep points for all!

allen
 

c.e.lawson

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Hi underthecity,

It's not that 'certainly' is wrong - it's just that it sounds pretty formal for a young guy, unless he's in a job interview or something and he's trying to be formal. I can see someone older saying that, someone perhaps around 36 years old. ;)

c.e.
 

underthecity

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c.e. lawson, I didn't notice you were from Southern California. My novel takes place in Pasadena. And much of the key action takes place in the MC's garage.

I have no idea what Pasadena's library looks like, so I based it on what our main branch looks like in Cincinnati.

Meanwhile, not to beat a dead horse, but the character development is important, here's the revised portion of the parts in discussion.

--

She felt her face grow warm as she smirked to herself. Her last dime clinked into the machine and the article printed out. He was clearly flirting with her. The attention she usually got from strange guys felt nice, it made her feel sexy. Greg didn’t even pay her compliments any more, not like he used to. Sometimes she had to get it when she could.

She gathered her papers and went to the elevator. The friendly librarian stood beside it and pressed the button for her.

“Thank you for the extra time,” she said, hugging the papers to her breast.

He smiled again as the doors opened. “No problem. Hope you come back and see us again real soon. I’m always here.”

She waved her fingers at him; his eyes followed her she climbed on the elevator. When the doors closed she leaned against the wall and sighed as she began the descent. She still had “it,” whatever it was that caused men to fall over themselves trying to please a pretty girl like her. She wished Greg would make that kind of effort. Well, he would have to do something if they were going to make a baby together. Maybe tonight. She was in the mood for love.

--

allen
 

c.e.lawson

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LOL on the MC in her garage. Does she have 300 Spartans in it, too?

I don't know if this is important to your story, but as is typical of many places in Californa, the Pasadena public library looks to me like it's made in a California Mission style. Here's a link with a pic. I haven't been to that library myself, and I've been to Pasadena infrequently, only for a museum or concert or a football game at the Rose Bowl.

http://www.ci.pasadena.ca.us/library/brief-history.asp

I have a friend who grew up there, so if you need something answered that only someone who lives there could tell you, shoot me a PM and I can ask her for you.

I like your revision.
 

wayndom

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Being male, I can't help out on how authentic her actions are, but I have a couple of nit-picks.

I would drop "good-looking" from the guy's description. It's too generic. I think it's a basic mistake for an author to describe any character as beautiful, ugly, sexy, etc. The author should say what the guy looks like (a comma of dark hair over his brow, something specific like that), and leave value judgments like beautiful and ugly to the characters, or be revealed by characters' reactions to them.

His parting words only need the first and last sentences. "No problem. I'm always here." The middle sentence makes it too long, and makes him sound desperate and pushing too hard.

And when she's glad she still has, "it," "whater it is," is enough. "that men fall all over themselves for" is understood and too wordy.

And there should be a paragraph break after "whatever it is," so, "She wished Greg would make that kind of effort" starts a new para.

Looks good overall.

P.S. My favorite radio personality once told a story about her mother, who was a stunning beauty. She'd been accustomed to having men compete for her attention and fall all over themselves to help her, until one day, she walked into a department store and nobody rushed to help her. She finally caught a salesman's eye, and he came over, but all the normal flirtatiousness was absent in his conversation and attitude. She suddenly realized to her horror that she'd reached an age where men no longer felt motivated to win her approval, and the realization was crushing.

I'm relating the story only because you expressed uncertainty whether beautiful women flirt automatically -- apparently some not only do, but it becomes second-nature to them.
 

underthecity

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c.e. lawson, thanks for the link to the Pasadena library. Judging the exterior, I think my interior descriptions will work, but they may not be 100% accurate. I'm not that concerned about it.

Wayndom, I forgot to mention in my previous post that I did delete the unnecessary "He was good looking" sentence. Also, I changed the librarian's parting words to "No problem. Take care." And I put in the paragraph break where you suggested. I am not sure if it works, but I'm leaving it like that. There's always more revision later. So, thanks for the comments.

And Anniecolleen, thank you also.

I do appreciate the feedback. It's letting me know that the writing is not as substandard as I'm secretly afraid it is. It's really hard for me to tell.

allen
 
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