Is a book doomed to be in a single genre?

Ava Jarvis · Aug 16, 2007

Even if it crosses multiple genres?

So, I have this crazy ambition to write a sci-fi mystery novel, but I'm emphasizing the mystery over any sci-fi eye-openers, and so I really do want it classed in mysteries.

But does Sci-Fi win all the battles? What about fantasy? Can there be no fantasy mysteries that shelve into the mystery section? Mysteries that are historical fiction still shelve into mysteries, yet don't appear as historical fiction.

I already know that---not that anything I write would ever be considered for one---there are some mystery awards that disqualify science fiction elements, like the ones from the Wolfe Pack.

Don't get me wrong---I like fantasy, I like sci-fi, if I didn't I wouldn't be writing with them. But I do want to be shelved with what I'm trying to focus on. I think much of the sci-fi/fantasy audience wouldn't like my book because of what it's trying to do: mystery over the more traditional fun elements of that genre. Deduction over dragons and doodads, although those may appear as elements presented as logically as possible. If swamp adders and strange spy gear can show up in mystery, then why a taboo against dragons and devices?

As for the mystery audience, I feel that, done right, there's no reason why a mystery will cheat the reader if there is a bit of sci-fi in it. Of course, it may just be that the mystery audience doesn't want any sci-fi at all, so there's nothing one can really do there.

Doom, doom, etc.

Maybe I should work in some thriller elements? Lots of it? Then at least I might be next to the mystery shelves?

But someone give me some hope if it reasonably exists that I can hit the mystery market. :e2bummed:

I'd still do it anyways. I plan to attempt to generate as much backlist as possible. I have too much thought invested in it all, to the point where the short stories I've been writing all happen in that world. (Yes, I know, diversify you idiot... maybe in the future.) And maybe one day I could (or at least be part of a force that could) make it happen, if it is not already there and I've just been blind.

Azraelsbane · Aug 16, 2007

I personally don't see anything wrong with a sci-fi mystery. I'm no expert, so I can't tell you what it would fall under.

My problem is I've written a book that's 75k mainstream fiction bleeding into 5k hardcore fantasy.

I just labeled it slipstream and set it on my desk for seven years. Still haven't bothered querying, since I don't know where to begin.

There are a bunch of people that are likely better equipped to help you figure out your genre. I would think yours would be sci-fi, but hell, what do I know? :Shrug:

Stijn Hommes · Aug 16, 2007

The whole bookstore thing means you have to pick one genre, or rather the publisher needs to, that sellers can use to shelve your book. Once you're promoting the book, you can mention both parts of the story to attract readers in both genres. Perhaps you can convince the publisher to have the info on the cover: "Death on Mars", "A sci-fi mystery by Ava Jarvis".

AdamH · Aug 16, 2007

I suppose because most bookstores are divided based on genre you may need to choose where you think you'd get the most readers: in the mystery section or in the sci-fi section.

Also, another thing to consider (this is for further down the road) is do you consider yourself more of a sci-fi writer or a mystery writer. What I mean is: if you're book turns out to be a success, what genre would you like to be recognized in?

Then again, there are a lot of books that cross genre lines in the line blurring Fiction section.

So, it's possible.

Willowmound · Aug 16, 2007

Ava Jarvis said:
So, I have this crazy ambition to write a sci-fi mystery novel, but I'm emphasizing the mystery over any sci-fi eye-openers, and so I really do want it classed in mysteries.

Yeah, Isaac Asimov was the first to do this. The book's called The Caves of Steel. There are two more in the series. These are classed as sci-fi even though they're classic mysteries in every sense but setting.

NeuroFizz · Aug 16, 2007

This seems like a business decision rather than a writing decision, so write the best story you can in the way to want it. Then, when it is sold, get with your agent and editor to decide the best way to market it. These people are professionals in the business, and their primary interest will be to sell as many books as possible. This "problem" should take care of itself at that stage.

Roger J Carlson · Aug 16, 2007

I don't know. I think it's a writing decision as well as a business decision. If an agent or publisher can't see a niche for it, they're not likely to represent/publish it. If you're writing to get published (as opposed to just writing for yourself), you have to at least consider this.

And even if you do get published, the bookstore shelving thing can kill you. I adore Fred Saberhagen's "Dracula" series. I think it's one of the best vampire, urban fantasy series around. But sometimes the books were marketed in the SF section and sometimes in the Horror section. And so he never really built the kind of following that the series deserved.

Personally, I'd make it a science fiction story built around a mystery rather than a mystery in a science fiction setting. I think SF readers are more likely to tolerate a mystery than mystery readers to tolerate SF elements.

Jamesaritchie · Aug 16, 2007

Genre

As a general rule, a book is either placed in a single genre, or it's categorized as "mainstream." A mainstream novel is often a genre novel with wide appeal. I think this is the closest you can come to grabbing more than one audience with a novel.

Claudia Gray · Aug 16, 2007

Ultimately the publisher will have to choose one genre where it will be shelved, but if you cross genres successfully -- and this can certainly be done -- the publisher may be able to market your book to both scifi and mystery fans through different ads, etc. And you can reach out to both groups through your own efforts. So you can definitely cross-market that way, even though you'll probably end up on only the Scifi or the Mystery shelf at Borders.

Indirectly · Aug 16, 2007

I agree that it sounds like a business/marketing decision.

Just to babble/elaborate: I do think that there are a lot of blends which sometimes fly under the radar. For example, Nora Roberts writes futuristic dectective/mystery romances. They're set in the future with some science fiction flavor just to add to the genre bending. I'm not a Nora Roberts/JD Robb fan, but this came to mind as a mainstream success which could be seen as blending and mixing genres. (I dunno if it's the best example, but it's the first thing that popped in my head.)

I really think blending genres is a great idea and offers a lot of potential, but I figure they'll market it to whichever side promises a larger audience, probably bearing in mind what you're planning for your next few books. The way I understand it, publishing will be looking to establish you as a brand and will market to that effect. They might weigh the elements to see which tropes are included - usually it's not really a 50/50 balance.

Fantasy noir got us Urban Fantasy and a lot of detective mysteries with fantastical elements go under there. I think blending genres successfully can give birth to subgenres. Hey maybe you'll pioneer a new one!

NeuroFizz · Aug 16, 2007

Roger J Carlson said:
I think it's a writing decision as well as a business decision. If an agent or publisher can't see a niche for it, they're not likely to represent/publish it. If you're writing to get published (as opposed to just writing for yourself), you have to at least consider this.

I understand this, and agree with it, but I hate to see genre constraints being applied early in the writing process. I think it squeezes creativity. If a story is a really good one, it will find a home.

maestrowork · Aug 16, 2007

Many stories cross genres. Mine can be categorized as literary, mainstream, drama, love story, romance, coming-of-age, contemporary, etc. etc. The thing is, to be able to market it, your agent and publisher need to narrow it down so people can know immediately what kind of story it is -- and they could very well say it's a "SF mystery based on a true story." But if they say "it's a fantasy romantic mystery, with suspense and horror, Western with robots and talking animals" -- then your book may come across as lacking focus.

At any rate, when the book gets to the book sellers, they will have to somehow catalog and shelf the book. So sooner or later, someone will have to narrow it down to one or two genres.

Dave.C.Robinson · Aug 16, 2007

Generally SF/Mystery crossovers and Fantasy/Mystery crossovers get shelved in the other section, not mystery. I think it comes down to the fact that those books tend to sell better in the non-mystery side because old-school mystery readers didn't read SF or Fantasy and would put the book down when they saw an invented setting.

You may get into mystery with a near-future novel, but that's about it.

JoNightshade · Aug 16, 2007

I agree with Dave C. If you have a futuristic setting, my instinct is that it would sell better and be better received in scifi/fantasy. I worked in a bookstore for quite a while and I got to interact with the fans of both genres. And nothing against mystery readers, but... they tend to be older, and more set in their ways. If a book stretches the bounds of their mental definition of "mystery," they will feel cheated and unhappy. There's a formula, they like it, and they want you to stick to it! A lot of mystery fans are also older women, who typically shy away from anything resembling science fiction.

On the other hand, there are lots of sci-fi fantasy books that are also mystery. I think there's a lot more genre-bending and exploration in that area than you might think. Well, I mean, by definition sci-fi/fantasy is about exploring possibilities. The last one I read... oh gosh, it's too early in the morning to think of names. But the last sci fi mystery I read was about a detective attempting to solve his own murder via a teleportation machine. A couple of the Miles Vorkosigan books are also mysteries... someone said Asimov... There are others.

larocca · Aug 16, 2007

Kurt Vonnegut needed a few years to accept that he was going to be classified as a sci-fi writer even though he never thought of himself as one. Nor do I, and I'm not knocking sci-fi when I say that. He just happened to have written something else.

If you've read anything by Nicole Givens Kurtz in the Cybil Lewis series, it can accurately be called sci-fi or mystery. Damn if I know which. Damn if I care. Genres can be straight jackets.

Note the word "can." Vigilante Justice follows every single rule of the police/suspense/thriller genre there is, and yet it is anything but cookie-cutter. I did have fun with that.

Anyway, when I read, I much prefer authors who blast genre lines all to hell. And when I write, I do the same. Thus, I'm destined for the same poor sales figures as the authors I prefer. I'm also unable to change, and I'm happy with it.

So, Ava, since you're obviously writing from your heart, you should've realized by now that is more important than the sales figures. Like anyone has a clue what's going to sell anyway. If you can get some sort of consensus from a group of reliable first readers, change what you can without sacrificing what makes your book special to you, and get crusty and grumpy about the rest. Who's name is on the spine, huh, huh?

(Well, nobody's if it isn't published, but forget about that part for now...)

Roger J Carlson · Aug 16, 2007

Willowmound said:
Yeah, Isaac Asimov was the first to do this. The book's called The Caves of Steel. There are two more in the series. These are classed as sci-fi even though they're classic mysteries in every sense but setting.

Asimov wrote his SF mysteries on a dare. It was generally believed that a SF mystery was impossible because the detective could just whip out his futuristic thinga-ma-gig to solve the case.

Asimov reasoned that a SF mystery would have to play by the same rules as all mysteries, i.e. all the futuristic stuff would have to be introduced well in advance, just like all clues. He wrote his mysteries to prove it.

However, he never made much of a splash in mystery circles. They were mostly bought by SF readers. Even his straight mysteries (Tales of the Black Widowers) were sold in the SF section.

amber_grosjean · Aug 16, 2007

If your book is being written more in the mystery genre, that is where the genre should be. If there is an element of science fiction, that's ok. That would be your secondary genre which wouldn't be labled on the book per say. I would mention it to the publishers but ask them if it could just be categorized at mysteries.

The book I'm trying to get published is mysteries with a couple other genres mixed in so I have trouble deciding where it fits the market the best, but mysteries is the best option, I think. A publisher could disagree so you may have to ask, once the contract is signed. Don't bring it up until then.

Amber

BardSkye · Aug 16, 2007

Asimov also edited an anthology of science fiction mysteries showing most of the classic styles (hard-boiled, locked room, etc.) through Doubleday. It was marketed as science fiction. He also wrote one with no science fiction elements at all -- set on a campus in the same general time it was written, and using only the science of the day -- which was marketed as science fiction, probably because he was already established in the market.

I do agree with others here that you would probably have much better odds marketing it as science fiction than mystery.

Dave.C.Robinson · Aug 16, 2007

Like JoNightshade, I worked for a number of years in a bookstore, and I agree with her on both the placement and the reader crossover. If the book has a noticeably SF or Fantasy setting it will sell much better in those sections than it would in the Mystery section, regardless of whether it's primarily a mystery or not.

If it's near future mystery, or a mystery with low key urban fantasy elements, you may be able to get it into mystery, but those elements need to be low key. Otherwise the large contingent of mystery readers who don't like SF/Fantasy will put the book down.

Ava Jarvis · Aug 16, 2007

Wow, thanks for all the advice! I have a much better idea now of where my book would stand.

I am indeed writing from the heart. And it probably will end up as SciFi, even though I'm working mostly with mystery. And if I really need to land into mystery---well, there's another idea in the wings that would fall quite easily into the category.

As an unexpected side-effect of this thread, I've decided to reel in the future years by several centuries so that it's "near future". I've played around with changing the time frame, and it doesn't change much of anything (actually things are now much more concrete). And for the big ticket item, from what we know about global warming (natural causes or unnatural) I'm probably safe with flooding London as a forseeable future in the next 50 years. Or less.

I don't think that change is enough to get the book filed with mysteries, but hopefully it is such that one day it could get recommended to a mystery reader, and they wouldn't mind picking it up.

Anyways, I am more at peace now. :Sun:

Thank you all so much!

Is a book doomed to be in a single genre?

Ava Jarvis

Too stupid to know fear

Azraelsbane

Agony is defeat

Stijn Hommes

Know what you write...

AdamH

Pumped Up Kicks

Willowmound

Lightly salted

NeuroFizz

The grad students did it

Roger J Carlson

Moderator In Name Only

Jamesaritchie

Claudia Gray

Indirectly

NeuroFizz

The grad students did it

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

Dave.C.Robinson

... with the High Command

JoNightshade

has finally arrived

larocca

Proofreader

Roger J Carlson

Moderator In Name Only

amber_grosjean

AW Addict

BardSkye

Barbershoppin' Harmony Whore

Dave.C.Robinson

... with the High Command

Ava Jarvis

Too stupid to know fear