Question regarding submissions

Prozyan · Aug 15, 2007

When submitting Short Fiction (2000 words or less) should you first send a query letter or just your manuscript with a cover sheet?

In relation, what is the word count where you start sending queries instead of just your manuscript?

Thanks!

Momento Mori · Aug 15, 2007

Prozyan:
When submitting Short Fiction (2000 words or less) should you first send a query letter or just your manuscript with a cover sheet?

It depends on where you're sending it to but the general rule of thumb is that you don't send a query letter for a short story. In fact, I think I've only come across 2 magazines in the last 18 months that wanted a query letter first (a brief summary of what the story's about, the number of words, the title and any previous publication queries) and in each case it was if you wanted to submit a story over 8,000 words.

What you do need to do is check out the submission requirements of the magazine you're submitting to - make sure your manuscript is formatted to those requirements and contains the pertinent information that they ask for.

Usually when I'm submitting (and unless the magazine's submission requirements say otherwise), I'll do a really brief covering letter or email, which basically says:

Please find enclosed my story, 'X', which is complete at xx words.

I look forward to hearing from you at your earliest convenience.

Kind regards

Me.

MM

Stijn Hommes · Aug 15, 2007

For magazines, you usually don't send a query letter for short stories, but to be safe ALWAYS check the guidelines first.

Prozyan · Aug 15, 2007

Thanks a ton guys!

dahosek · Aug 15, 2007

Ya, the cover letter needs to be a picture of zen simplicity:

Please find enclosed my short story "Bartleby the Scrivener".

If I have pub credits here, I mention them, otherwise I say nothing about myself.

I have enclosed an SASE for your response.

And that's it (other than the other bits of letter furniture--signature, addresses, date, etc.). In some cases, even this is more than is necessary.

Jamesaritchie · Aug 15, 2007

dahosek said:
Ya, the cover letter needs to be a picture of zen simplicity:

Please find enclosed my short story "Bartleby the Scrivener".

If I have pub credits here, I mention them, otherwise I say nothing about myself.

I have enclosed an SASE for your response.

And that's it (other than the other bits of letter furniture--signature, addresses, date, etc.). In some cases, even this is more than is necessary.

A fair bunch of editors I know hate, hate, hate it when a writer writes "Please find enclosed."

I'm one of them. As with many, my first thought is "Find it? Why? Is it lost in there somewhere? Why didn't you find it before you sent me the envelope?

CaroGirl · Aug 15, 2007

Jamesaritchie said:
A fair bunch of editors I know hate, hate, hate it when a writer writes "Please find enclosed."

I'm one of them. As with many, my first thought is "Find it? Why? Is it lost in there somewhere? Why didn't you find it before you sent me the envelope?

Come on, dude, it's just an expression. And a venerable one, at that. Hundreds of years old. "I hope this letter finds you well." Why, am I lost? No. It's an expression.

Momento Mori · Aug 15, 2007

James - I agree with CaroGirl. There's nothing wrong with saying "Please find enclosed". It's standard business language and it's courteous. If the submission requirements stated: "Please do not say 'Please find enclosed' in your covering letter" then I wouldn't use it, but otherwise I'm not going waste my time angsting over or second-guessing the personal preferences of an editor for a covering letter.

Saying that, if you want to share the names of those editors who dislike seeing it, then I know I'd be grateful for the information.

MM

blacbird · Aug 15, 2007

I may now have identified the problem in my cover letters that keeps me from getting stuff published:

"Please find enclosed three dead roaches . . . "

Perhaps I shouldn't mention them.

caw

Kate Thornton · Aug 15, 2007

Send me an envelope of your roaches...no, wait, not dead bugs. You mean insects? Eeeewww!

Jamesaritchie · Aug 16, 2007

Momento Mori said:
James - I agree with CaroGirl. There's nothing wrong with saying "Please find enclosed". It's standard business language and it's courteous. If the submission requirements stated: "Please do not say 'Please find enclosed' in your covering letter" then I wouldn't use it, but otherwise I'm not going waste my time angsting over or second-guessing the personal preferences of an editor for a covering letter.

Saying that, if you want to share the names of those editors who dislike seeing it, then I know I'd be grateful for the information.

MM

It isn't a matter of being "wrong," it's a matter of an editor reading the phrase 10,000 times, and it gets old fast. Especially when this is really all the blasted letter really says.

Really, what's the point of a cover letter that really says nothing at all other than "Please find enclosed.?"

No, I won't name names, but I would suggest you read this: http://www.writing-world.com/basics/cover.shtml

And do some serious Googling on variations of the phrase and editors.
Not all editors hate the phrase, but many do, and it almost always is attached to a pointless cover letter.

The trick with a cover letter is simple. If you have something worth saying, then say it. If you have nothing worth saying, then don't waste an editor's time by trying to say it anyway.

You don;t need to second guess anyone. You just need to say something that matters a tinker's damn, or say nothing at all.

If you have to use the word "enclosed," then do it right, as Moira Allen suggests. Tell me something is enclosed, but don't tell me to "find it."

Jamesaritchie · Aug 16, 2007

Old

CaroGirl said:
Come on, dude, it's just an expression. And a venerable one, at that. Hundreds of years old. "I hope this letter finds you well." Why, am I lost? No. It's an expression.

That isn't the same thing at all, in any way, not even close. No way, no how.

And, really, would you send that to an editor.

At least be a bit creative, a bit original. Not many editors want to see any expression that's hundreds of years old. They're also known as "cliches."

Momento Mori · Aug 16, 2007

James, you're making far too big a deal out of this. So what if an editor has seen the phrase used 10,000 times? Unless it's spelt incorrectly, s/he is presumably still going to read the enclosed material and make a decision based on that rather than the cover letter.

It is just as correct to say "please find enclosed" as to say "I enclosed" or even "Enclosed is a copy of" - it's a personal preference and it's ludicrous to be trying to suggest that it's something that could put an editor off your work.

MM

CaroGirl · Aug 16, 2007

Jamesaritchie said:
That isn't the same thing at all, in any way, not even close. No way, no how.

And, really, would you send that to an editor.

At least be a bit creative, a bit original. Not many editors want to see any expression that's hundreds of years old. They're also known as "cliches."

Okay, you're kidding, right? Creative and original? Isn't that just what editors don't want in a cover letter? So, I should print it on pink scented paper, put the word count in roman numerals and write my title in pig Latin? NO! Editors want a business letter that's clean, crisp and to the point, written in standard business language. Any phrasing that they've seen hundreds of times should fade into the background, along with "Dear" or "Yours truly". Or should I open my letter with "Fat arse editor" and close it with "Up yours"?

Momento Mori · Aug 16, 2007

CaroGirl:
should I open my letter with "Fat arse editor" and close it with "Up yours"?

Personally, I've started using "Dear Arsehole" as my opener and closing with "I hope your dog dies" but it just doesn't seem to be generating a positive response ...

MM

Prozyan · Aug 16, 2007

Wow, I feel like I started a fight. :tongue

Momento Mori · Aug 16, 2007

Prozyan - nah, this is pretty civilised given that no one seems to be taking it personally. You should see what happens when people really disagree here - blood and dismembered limbs everywhere!

MM

nevada · Aug 16, 2007

I've heard exactly what James says. Editors get annoyed at the "please find enclosed". As a previous secretary (finishing carpenter now) I know that please find enclosed is frowned upon in business letters. Another pet peeve that i've read editors complain about and which i agree with is the "Please accept my story for consideriation for publishing.". Like, what else are you sending them a story for? It's totally unnecesary. I think my cover letter is two lines long. I only put it there cause it seems to be accepted. And quite honestly, sometimes I dont even bother with a cover letter. If i cannot find any information about who the editor is, so I dont even know if it should say Dear Sir/Madam, no name, nothing. I just avoid the whole thing and just send them the story. I bet they dont even read the cover letter first.

pdr · Aug 16, 2007

Do you...

care about your writing? Is the story you're sending out something you're proud of? Then, if the guidelines ask for a covering letter, please send a brief one which conveys your pride and pleasure in presenting your work to this excellent market.

'Please find enclosed' is like a form letter or junk mail.

Julie Worth · Aug 25, 2007

blacbird said:
I may now have identified the problem in my cover letters that keeps me from getting stuff published:

"Please find enclosed three dead roaches . . . "

Perhaps I shouldn't mention them.

caw

It’s almost worth changed the working title!

Dear Editor,

Please find enclosed the requested material--THREE DEAD ROACHES.

Sincerely
Julie Worth

dahosek · Aug 26, 2007

I bet they dont even read the cover letter first.

Harold Junker (ZYZZYVA) is clear that he doesn't read the cover letter until he's made a decision on the story. There was some other publication that I have on my short list which explicitly says to not include a cover letter. The cover letter, for short fiction, is generally just another way of tracking the submission and isn't going to be scrutinized for anything.

J. R. Tomlin · Aug 29, 2007

I know of several publications, on the other hand, that specifically state that they expect to see a cover email and won't open an attached submission without one. I consider a cover letter simply a matter of basic courtesy. You don't send someone something without one.

I go short and simple and frankly any editor who would be concerned about having seen the wording before is probably one I don't want to work with anyway!

My standard short story cover letter (and I mostly to email subs) is:

Attached is my XXXX word fantasy short story, My Brilliant Fantasy Short Story, for your consideration.

Thank you for your time, and I look forward to hearing from you.

Cordially,

No doubt they have seen all of those words 10,000 times before, but if that matters then they have problem. It tells them a couple of things they want to know such as the genre and length. Then either they like the story or they don't.

Jamesaritchie · Aug 29, 2007

dahosek said:
Harold Junker (ZYZZYVA) is clear that he doesn't read the cover letter until he's made a decision on the story. There was some other publication that I have on my short list which explicitly says to not include a cover letter. The cover letter, for short fiction, is generally just another way of tracking the submission and isn't going to be scrutinized for anything.

It's scrutinized for publishing credits, which is the main purpose of a cover letter. Some editors don't read a cover letter until after they read the story, but most read it first, looking for credits, or any other reason why you might have sent a good story.

At many magazines, What the cover letter says, and how it says it, determines who reads the story first. No credits and no qualifications means an assistant reads it first. Solid credits or other qualifications gets it passed to a higher editor for the first reading.

Many, many magazines won't open attached submissions, even with a cover letter, and want short stories embedded in the body of the e-mail.

Follow guidelines, but if you have nothing worth saying, a cover letter usually just tells an editor that you have nothing worth saying.

maestrowork · Aug 30, 2007

So, with most publications (unless stated otherwise in the submission guidelines):

1. cover letter: keep it brief. Mention the manuscript, list credits if you have them, and close.

2. manuscript.

3. SASE?

Did I miss anything?

Should the manuscript be stapled or paper-clipped? Should we include an SASE or a SASP?

Stijn Hommes · Aug 30, 2007

If you submit a paper manuscript to a market, make sure your name and story title are in a header or footer on the page. Have page numbers and put "THE END" at the end. If you do all that, you don't need a paperclip. Stapling is a big no-no unless the publication asks you to do it.

Mention what rights you're selling in the cover letter (previously unpublished story, reprint, etc)

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