Worried about finding a place for my novel

Chalula88 · Aug 13, 2007

I am really worried about finding a place for my novel because I believe it is something that could be read by a variety of ages and something that could be enjoyed by adults, but I want to publish it as a Middle Grade novel because I think that audience would enjoy it the most.

I just want to know if its too much for MG and I know this is purely a matter of opinion and there's a wide variety, but I've never been really clear about where the line between MG and YA falls and I've tried and tried, but it just seems like they tend to bleed together into one category...

Anyway, here's a little about my novel and I'd like to know if you guys think it's okay for MG or if I should change anything to make it more appropriate.

Main Character: 11 years old, orphan, has to save the world in a very underground way and has to stay with a group of people who can protect her while she's doing so. (This is another concern because there's only one other child in the novel and she's a minor character, it is very much a story of a child among adults, fighting evil)

There's a lot of deep emotion, especially guilt and anger, is this alright for middle grade?

Also, there's a scene where the bad guy nearly kills the main character and he slashes her wrists. It does not go into graphic detail, but she does get a sort of homemade blood transfusion, stitches, and she has to convince people later on that she didn't do it to herself. Is that too much?

There's also a scene where she dreams about people coming back from the dead and she holds a baby that is alive one second and a corpse the next which is obviously a disturbing thought.

So, I'm bracing myself here, can I do this in Middle Grade or am I off the mark?

writermom · Aug 13, 2007

Chalula88 said:
I just want to know if its too much for MG and I know this is purely a matter of opinion and there's a wide variety, but I've never been really clear about where the line between MG and YA falls and I've tried and tried, but it just seems like they tend to bleed together into one category...

MG and YA are two different animals. Go to a bookstore, buy 3 MG’s and 3 YA’s. Read them all. You’ll begin to understand the distinctions.

Main Character: 11 years old, orphan, has to save the world in a very underground way and has to stay with a group of people who can protect her while she's doing so. (This is another concern because there's only one other child in the novel and she's a minor character, it is very much a story of a child among adults, fighting evil)

I would never tell you what to write. However, I would caution that an orphan saving the world is going to be a DIFFICULT sell.

There's a lot of deep emotion, especially guilt and anger, is this alright for middle grade?

There are emotions in all categories of books. That’s what makes them enjoyable. It isn’t the distinguishing factor that makes or doesn’t make a MG.

Toothpaste · Aug 13, 2007

Nothing you have written seems like it couldn't be an MG if indeed that is the category you want to write for. My book has only one kid in it as well, the MC, and no one seems to mind.

Write it and see! It's always such an annoying response, but really the best.

reenkam · Aug 13, 2007

writermom said:
However, I would caution that an orphan saving the world is going to be a DIFFICULT sell.

I don't get why this would be a difficult sell based on that one fact.....

Anyway, if you think it's MG, go for MG. It could turn out to be a MG that young adults and adults enjoy, like Harry Potter (the first few at least) but it's still be in the MG section and published by a children's publisher.

Maprilynne · Aug 13, 2007

Actually, I think the very basic story line sounds very much like the trilogy "His Dark Materials," except that the MC only thinks she's an orphan (at least for the first part of book one.) These books have been tremendously popular and I think one of the main reasons is that they are interesting to children, but have very adult themes that adult readers will see. (It actually has some extremely deep philosophy taken from openness theology that many adults--even well-read ones--will miss.) You really, really should check out that trilogy. I think it is a prime example of just how far you can stretch the MG genre.

Toothpaste · Aug 13, 2007

I think writermom meant that the industry is inundated with orphans these days, that they might be sick of the theme and be less inclined to read it (says the author of a book about an orphan . . . )

writermom · Aug 13, 2007

Exactly.

I never meant that you couldn't do it. Heck, there are fantastic books out there with orphans. The formula obviously works.

I just think that agents and editors get to the point where they're like, eh, orphans again. If you hear any of them speak at conferences or you read their blogs, they get the same query over and over again.

Let's take Toothpaste for example (which by the way I secretly read her blog and I preordered on Amazon), she may have an orphan BUT she has a new take... a pirate ship!

So it's not that you can't do it. You just have to do it different.

johnzakour · Aug 14, 2007

To me the content sounds more YAish. But the age is the MC is more middle readerish. I usually like to leave the world saving to the older kids in YA books. Saving the world puts a lot of pressure on an 11 year old.

I can see writermom's point about orphans being a tough sell. I had an editor at Tor say to me, "Please tell me you have something for me that isn't fantasy and doesn't have an Harry Potter like lead." So I get feeling they are really inundated with fantasy stories about orphans.

Toothpaste · Aug 14, 2007

Actually John I would disagree. I think saving the world is very MG. In a way I think YA often is more about an internal plot, like internal struggles with being a teenager etc, as opposed to an adventure to save something or someone. Sweeping generalisation of course, Eragon for example is YA.

johnzakour · Aug 14, 2007

I just think saving the world is way to much pressure for an 11 year old. I like to have my main characters be 15-16 before they have all that responsibility heaped on them.

Both my YA's coming next year have internal plot but they also involve saving the world or part of the world.

It's kind of weird but the SF writer in me won't let an 11 year old save the world because "it's not believable". That's just how my brain works.

When Tor first approached me because of my Rugrats and Fairly Odd Parents writing they thought I'd be perfect for MG. After reading my stuff they decided, "nope you are definitely YA." I guess I'm a wee bit too cynical for MG.

Chalula88 · Aug 14, 2007

Thanks for the comments.

Yes, 11 is young to save the world but that is a major point to the book, she can't understand how she's supposed to do such a big task and in the end she does it more with strength of mind and not with violence.

While she is an orphan, she knew her parents, they died when she five and it is important to the plot that they had died. It seems different to me, but maybe that's just because I wrote it...

The plot itself is very different from anything I've ever seen. I don't think I've EVER seen anyone use a similar plot and I don't say it to brag, I just say it to express that I don't feel like similarities to other publications will be a big problem.

I am currently having an 11 year old read the novel to let me know if she gets lost, confused, or disturbed by any of the content. She's read the first 25 pages and so far so good, she says she really likes it.

I think I'll have an adult reader once I go through and do a third draft.

Any more comments would be welcome.

reenkam · Aug 14, 2007

I don't think 11's to young to save the world. Well, it could be in actual life, but in fiction I think it's fine. And when the target audience reads they'll probably think "Ha, I might have to got to bed at 9, but at least I could save the world!" which could probably be a good motivator...

bethany · Aug 14, 2007

Ender Wiggins saved the world at 5, right?

bethany · Aug 14, 2007

I think you might want to consider style over content. MG is heavy on action and dialogue; it moves pretty fast. Introspection comes in small bursts and Voice in MG is usually (but not always) more straight forward, where YA is often more cynical and angsty.

MG is often straight out adventure, while YA is often discovery about self or about society (that it itsn't what it seems or is corrupt, whatever). But there are no absolute rules.

lostgirl · Aug 14, 2007

I super loved Ender's Game but I thought he was a little older by the time he really did save the world.. but it's been a 100 years since I've read the book so I don't know for sure.

And my advice is along the lines of Toothpaste. Go for it!

johnzakour · Aug 14, 2007

lostgirl said:
I super loved Ender's Game but I thought he was a little older by the time he really did save the world.. but it's been a 100 years since I've read the book so I don't know for sure.

And my advice is along the lines of Toothpaste. Go for it!

Yeah Ender was older. Besides it definitely wasn't a MG book. Still a great series.

I'm not saying don't go for it. I would never say that. I'm just saying you may want to go for it in the YA market.

BTW, having a totally unique story isn't always a good thing.

johnzakour · Aug 14, 2007

bethany said:
I think you might want to consider style over content. MG is heavy on action and dialogue; it moves pretty fast. Introspection comes in small bursts and Voice in MG is usually (but not always) more straight forward, where YA is often more cynical and angsty.

MG is often straight out adventure, while YA is often discovery about self or about society (that it itsn't what it seems or is corrupt, whatever). But there are no absolute rules.

They also have different tones. I've ghost written a few MGs for book packagers and always had to push my cynical side to the far back ends of my mind -- kind of turn it off. I would put myself in the same mental mode I would get in to write a Rugrats comic.

I have a lot more fun writing YA and SF when I can let me be me.

bethany · Aug 14, 2007

At most I think he (Ender) was 6 or 7, and Bean was younger- the whole thing would've fallen on Bean's shoulders if Ender had fallen apart. I'm not arguing, just saying 11 isn't that young and you don't HAVE to leave saving the world to the older kids. The emotional fallout from wiping out a species was one of the interesting parts of the story.

Although the kid that saves the world is as much a cliche these days as the orphan hero, isn't it? Depends on how you do it.

And scholastic has repackaged Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow for MG readers with a new cover, etc. So even though it wasn't written for them, it's being sold by their book clubs. They even have at least one compilation of Ender stories in that set. Very MG. Hip looking kids floating around on the covers, and all.

If you love a particular age group go for that. If not focus on good writing, unique voice, and a distinctive hook and you'll be able to sell it someplace.

lostgirl · Aug 14, 2007

bethany said:
If you love a particular age group go for that. If not focus on good writing, unique voice, and a distinctive hook and you'll be able to sell it someplace.

Here, here!!! :raising my cup: Excellent advice.

johnzakour · Aug 14, 2007

Actually you're right (after opening up the books again) Ender is quite young at least to start.

Once again, I would never say, "don't go for it." I'm just stating that for my brain it just makes more sense to toss the responsibility for saving the world on older shoulders. (Of course this is a brain that readily accepts teleporting and faster than light travel. So I'm not saying "I'm right." I'm just saying that's how I think.)

Toothpaste · Aug 15, 2007

john I also think you have a perception about MG that doesn't necessarily mean that that is how MG's are. The fact that you push the cynical side of your brain away, is just how you personally write it. I mean ever read Lemony Snicket? Now there is a cynical guy.

As for MG's saving the world, I stand by my original point. Think The Wizard of Oz (not the first book but the subsequent ones) or Narnia series. Both MG, both involve grand large scales of good winning over evil, and a world saved thanks to a kid.

Chalula88 · Aug 15, 2007

Thanks for everyone's comments. I wrote the second to last chapter today and have the book completely edited up to page 107. I'm really excited about shopping it around to agents, but I'm also aware that it might be received critically. I'm open to everything right now and I'll be sure to let everyone know how the query goes.

Thanks again!

MsJudy · Aug 16, 2007

I wrote the second to last chapter today and have the book completely edited up to page 107.

um....this is a totally unsolicited opinion that has nothing to do with your original question, but that sentence kind of grabbed me. I'd be cautious about considering the first part of your book "finished" if you haven't written the last chapter yet. I know I usually can't see the holes until I've gotten some distance from the first draft. It's hard when you finish not to want to jump right into getting it published, but you'll kick yourself if you don't do well because it isn't quite polished. If I were you (and obviously I'm not, so this may just be my own issues, and you can ignore me), I would set it aside for at least two weeks after you write the "last" chapter, then come back and reread the whole thing thoroughly before you send out any queries.

The book I'm currently shopping went through 6 drafts, four before and two after I attended the Big Sur Children's Writing Workshop, so maybe I'm a little overboard about revising, but....

Chalula88 · Aug 17, 2007

Thanks for the comments.

Well, the last chapter isn't the big ending, it just ties up the loose ends. It's a scene where the mc realizes everything she did right in the second to last chapter, so there really weren't any plot issues.

I don't outline, but I knew from page one how it would end and the novel flowed so naturally for me while I was writing it than I never had any continuity problems and even the things I discovered about the plot later on, I had somehow already foreshadowed.

I'm adding a scene between the pages of information that has more action in it, so I think that may solve that problem.

I'm of course going to give it a thorough reading or two before I call it finished, but the wait for me really isn't much help.

JLCwrites · Aug 17, 2007

Stephen King in On Writing wrote something similar to JSK's comment. Only he waits at least 6 weeks between 1st and 2nd drafts. (Usually writing a small story in between drafts) Then after he finishes his 2nd draft, he has his wife be his first beta tester. Then he rewrites it again and sends it out to a close group of beta testers. A few more rewrites later, he submits it.

Just a little FYI. But only you can tell if it is truly completed.

Oh, another little known fact, Philip Pulman rarely feels his work is finished, but turns it in anyway. (I've had English professors who believed the same thing, and never gave full credit to anything turned in. Bleh!)

On topic though, I think that if you imagined a middle grade student reading your book, then you should present it as such. Then if the agent/publisher says "Wow this makes a great YA!" then you can switch gears.

Worried about finding a place for my novel

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