Including Artwork

Atlantis · Aug 13, 2007

Is it a good idea to include rough drafts of artwork when submitting a manuscript? I'm not talking about sketches of the front cover. In my book, soul mates is a strong theme. The way people are identified as a soul mate of another person is a round mark on their wrist that looks like a tattoo; for example, Poseidon's soul mate would have a mark of a trident on her wrist and Poseidon would have her symbol on his own. I've been drawing heaps and heaps of these things. I have entire scrapbooks full of them. These symbols are quite important to the plot. Should I include them when I submit or leave them out? For my current book, I've been tossing up the idea of including the mark of Poseidon and the mark of his soul mate on the first page, since the book revolves around them and their son. It is a urban fantasy/romance novel.

writeitdown · Aug 13, 2007

From everything I have read, the answer is a big fat, no.

JanDarby · Aug 13, 2007

No.

JD

WorldPlanter · Aug 13, 2007

I brought this subject up a while ago, though I discussed the possibility of including high quality illustrations since I'm a professional artist by trade.

Anyway, I received mixed reaction. I think the soundest argument against including illustrations in a novel is the cost to the publisher versus the added value customers will perceive the book to possess. If your illustrations can offset the additional cost by attracting more readers to pick up your book in the first place then it might be possible to justify it. Convincing the publisher of this will certainly be the trick though.

In your case it sounds as if you'll simply be presenting depictions of iconic imagery or graphic designs. Unless there's a strong correlation between them and the story I have difficulty believing that any publisher would be fond of the idea. If you feel strongly about including them I would consider their integration carefully.

However, I wouldn't include your illustrations/graphic designs in your submission though. I'd bring it up later. That's what I plan on doing with my illustrations. I intend to submit the story on its own and if I receive an offer then I'll bring up the possibility of illustrations at a more opportune moment when the acceptance of my book doesn't depend on it.

C.bronco · Aug 13, 2007

Never ever ever, unless it is a children's picture book and you are also an illustrator.
The publishing house picks the illustrator.

johnzakour · Aug 13, 2007

I wouldn't say "never ever ever" but I would say "never ever". Illustrations are very rare in American novels these days. Illustrations done by the author are even rarer.

On a side note, the Japanese version of my first book has illustrations and they are a kick.

Red Robin · Aug 13, 2007

This is covered in the Uncle Jim thread. Somewhere

Claudia Gray · Aug 13, 2007

I would say no at the agent stage. After you have an agent, it's possibly something the two of you could discuss for submissions to editors -- though I'm guessing even then, that's mostly a no. And after the manuscript is bought, you can definitely discuss illustrations with your editor. Even if they say yes, they're more likely to get a professional artist to do them than to take your sketches -- but you never know. (I am thinking here of the portraiture Colleen McCullough did for her "Masters of Rome" series.)

But at the stage you're at -- don't. No matter how important the images are to your story, you should be describing those images so vividly in your writing that illustrations would be unnecessary. Sending sketches along to an agent makes you look like you're more interested in artwork than in your story, and they're looking for focus on the story.

Danger Jane · Aug 13, 2007

I'd say...no. Especially not at the agent stage.

If your editor decides they're necessary, he'll get an illustrator.

Diagram type illustrations can be a little distracting. They remind you it's a story.

Wolvel · Aug 13, 2007

I would have to say no as well. I myself am an artist, and I have created tons of drawings with my charaecters(it started out as a graphic novel back in the '80's).

All the agent needs to see is the written work, art comes later.

Azraelsbane · Aug 13, 2007

I've read a lot of agent blogs that state if there's anything like artwork, glitter, fancy paper and such, then the query goes directly into the trash. I'd imagine it's the same thing for partials and fulls, as those are simply stages in the "get an agent" game.

Don't wow them with artwork that will likely never make it onto the cover of the hypothetically published novel anyway. Wow them with the manuscript. I think most agents see everything else as something meant to distract them from the actual writing.

Atlantis · Aug 13, 2007

All right, it was just an idea, I'm still going to hold onto them, maybe once I'm a little further along and snag an agent I could bring them out and show them then.

Gillhoughly · Aug 13, 2007

Speaking as an editor, the answer is no. I want your words and a current address in case I like them.

If I do like them and phone you and you bring up the topic of your illustrations, I may start backpedaling fast about buying the words. You've just told me you don't know enough about the business end to understand not to do that.

A quick trip to the 808 section of your library to find books about how to sell books will help you muchly.

Unless you're doing a graphic novel, keep the art on your walls as inspiration.

You won't fare better with an agent. Agents also want words, not art. Sending them art with the MS is a fast way to the circular file.

BUT--If your book sells, then put the art up on your website, as much of it as you like! Your readers will enjoy it and it will help promote the book.

Good luck!

job · Aug 13, 2007

My answer would be more like ...
'yes, but at a much much later stage.'

What you do is ...
Submit the ms,
(which describes these marks so exactly the reader can see them.).
Sign with an agent.
Let the agent sell to a publisher.
(No, you still haven't sent these designs anywhere.)
Sign contract.
Go through manuscript disucssions with the editor.
(Not yet.)
Submit corrected manuscript.
Get corrections accepted.

THEN send a copy of your favorite illustrations of these marks.

You do it now because this is the point at which the editor will be talking to marketing people and cover artisits and book designers.
They are the folks who can use these illustrations.

It is possible, but unlikely, the designs will be used in the body of the text.
You have a reasonable chance one of them might show up as cover art.

Atlantis · Aug 14, 2007

Hi everyone. Thanks for all the responses. Thought I might clear some things up after reading a few of the posts. I'm writing two book series that are loosely connected --- The Seven Virtues and the Chronicles of the Gods. The two series stand alone from each other but are connected through the theme of Gods and Goddesses finding their soul mates. Each book is about a different couple. I was thinking about including the "soul marks" of the main characters involved in a relationship on the front page of each seperate book, a bit like the hogwarts coat of arms in the harry potter novels. The symbols wouldn't be scattered through the whole novel, just the front page. I guess I kinda knew inside it was a bad idea to submit them early, I suppose a part of me just liked the idea of sending in some art work I'd done. I don't expect the the original pictures to ever make it into print, they're more like suggestions, that another illustrator (I assume) could redesign, if they thought they were good enough. Ah, well. It was worth asking. Thanks again. I'll hold onto them.

Including Artwork

Atlantis

writeitdown

ARD Awareness

JanDarby

WorldPlanter

C.bronco

I have plans...

johnzakour

Dangerous with a Keyboard

Red Robin

Veni Vidi Scripsi

Claudia Gray

Danger Jane

Wolvel

Write the Damn Book!

Azraelsbane

Agony is defeat

Atlantis

Gillhoughly

Grumpy writer and editor

job

In the end, it's just you and the manuscript

Atlantis