Unbelievable new spin on the dreaded, "When's your book coming out?" talk

rwam · Aug 11, 2007

So my brother-in-law is visiting today and my wife told him the other night that two agents were reading my 'full'. Apparently, to non-writers, this means the novel's due out in a month. Yeah, yeah, I know, lots of threads like this.

Anyway, here's how the conv goes...

Jeff (him): "So, when do I get my autographed copy?"
Rob (me): "Whattayamean?"
Jeff: "Of your book. Ang told me you've got an agent."
Rob: "Nah, not yet."
Jeff: "Well, that's still cool. I've got a screenplay that's been bouncing around in my head for a couple years. I'm always looking for new streams of passive income."
Rob: "You think writing is passive income?"
Jeff: "Well, yeah. Sure, you gotta write it, but then you start collecting all the residuals."

I just shake my head and laugh.

Jeff: "What?"
Rob, quietly thinking about the past two years. "Passive income?"
Jeff: "Yeah. That way you can just sit back and watch it roll in."
Rob: "I don't know if you realize this, but you don't get rich by writing."

You know, I'm used to the 'why aren't you published yet' crap. But this "passive income" thing takes the cake. PASSIVE INCOME!!!

scarletpeaches · Aug 11, 2007

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why I hate people.

stormie · Aug 11, 2007

Wow, "passive income." Never heard royalties called that before. Sheesh. Like writing is just so, so easy, and it's even easier to get an agent, and sure, once you have an agent it's a piece of cake to get a publisher, and once you have a publisher, that book will be out in no time at all. Right.

Rolling Thunder · Aug 11, 2007

Maybe by 'passive' he meant the money lolly gags around someplace other than your bank account.

badducky · Aug 11, 2007

I think he's referring to how the income "passes" right on by.

rwam · Aug 11, 2007

THANK YOU!!!

You know, I think the thing that insulted me the most about all this was he was just looking at it like writing is a money making opportunity. Passive freakin income? People (except for our spouses maybe?) have absolutely no idea of the energy we pour into this. They have no idea what it's like to be consumed by this OBSESSION TO CREATE.

Sure, it'll be nice when I do sell this thing. But how could anyone ever think I was looking for passive income? If I wanted that, why wouldn't I just start a pyramid scheme or something?

Passive income, my ass. I'm gonna go pour a jack and coke.

kristie911 · Aug 11, 2007

Writing certainly wouldn't count as passive income. But I'm fascinated by the idea...

If anyone can come up with a form of passive income that doesn't include receiving an inheritance, can you let me know?

badducky · Aug 11, 2007

This myth is promulgated by financial planners.

"Here's a snip of the "passive income" entry at wiki:

* Income from rental property
* Royalties from writing a book.
* Selling digital files like software / ebooks or scripts or offering a service that doesn't require the merchant's intervention. In these cases, PayPal IPN may be used to achieve this.

Another example of passive income comes from network marketing."

As a former insurance agent (another one of those passive income things) I assure you the work begins after the sale.

Same thing with writing.

rwam · Aug 11, 2007

Thanks for the laughs and insights gang.

I never told you the kicker in all this. I went outside to kind of cool off (even though it was 100 degrees out) and get the mail.

Yep, waiting for me in the mailbox was a sase with my handwriting on it. But I will say it was probably the best rejection I've gotten yet (personalized & handsigned).

Shady Lane · Aug 11, 2007

My mom told me today to stop wasting my time and get off the computer.

I basically hate humans.

rugcat · Aug 11, 2007

Shady Lane said:
I basically hate humans.

Ah, but wait until you're a little older, Shady, and have learned more about life, compassion, and the infinite complexities of human beings.

Then you'll really hate them.

maestrowork · Aug 11, 2007

In a sense I can understand how the term "passive" comes about. You do your work up front, then you reap the reward for years to come basically doing no extra work (other than the work you've already done) -- so it's very different than income that you are actively working on getting (such as a day job). I receive royalties from my acting jobs (movies, commercials, etc.) once in a while and I do feel like they're "passive" -- I didn't do anything and these checks just magically appear periodically. On the other hand, I didn't NOT do anything to deserve the income -- it's just that the work was performed upfront.

I also understand why people believe that artists/writers/actors... make a lot of money because that's all they hear about the likes of Tom Cruise or JK Rowling. They don't realize that these names only represent a small percentage, an elite group of writers. And they don't understand that a lot of times it takes decades to become an overnight success, and these writers, actors, or whatever have to starve for all that time. So if you consider the amount of money a regular worker earns in 10 years (say $40,000 a year x 10 = $400,000) vs. the amount of advance a typical writer gets, they'll understand it's not really that impressive.

RLB · Aug 11, 2007

Hmm, I had never considered royalties as passive income, but I guess in a sense anything after your advance would be considered such. I usually think of passive income as rental income and interest/gains off investments though.

badducky · Aug 11, 2007

RLB said:
Hmm, I had never considered royalties as passive income, but I guess in a sense anything after your advance would be considered such. I usually think of passive income as rental income and interest/gains off investments though.

And anyone engaged in these sorts of things (I'm of the latter) know that these are in fact NOT passive.

Landlords must either maintain their properties or pay someone to do so.

Investors must monitor investments carefully and adjust carefully, or pay someone to do so.

Writers must promote their work, and continue to promote their work (i.e. by writing more stuff and selling it to keep their books in print to battle the proverbial death spiral).

Life and Health Insurance Agents and Financial Planners must maintain their relationship with their clients with more than just claim forms and an occasional card lest some other agent sweep in with a better deal.

No, once the sale is made, the work does not end. Passive is convenient a lie told by financial planners to make people less afraid of investing.

wayndom · Aug 11, 2007

stormie said:
Wow, "passive income." Never heard royalties called that before. Sheesh. Like writing is just so, so easy, and it's even easier to get an agent, and sure, once you have an agent it's a piece of cake to get a publisher, and once you have a publisher, that book will be out in no time at all. Right.

Like everyone else, I thought getting published was the end of the rainbow.

Bad news, people... Getting published is like being a sperm who finds himself lucky enough to be inside an actual womb. He still has to outswim about a 100,000,000 other sperm to make it to the egg.

About 50,000 books are published in the U.S. every year. That's just under 1,000 titles a week. Know any bookstores that stock 1,000 new titles a week?

Even after your book is published, it still has to fight for shelf space. Now here's the ironic part: best way to get shelf space is to get good reviews, but there are far fewer reviews published than there is shelf space...

"The audition never stops"

Wolvel · Aug 11, 2007

Income for writing.

Is there such a thing?

Nah.

wayndom · Aug 11, 2007

On the other hand, five years after my novel was published, my agent sold the movie rights for enough money for me to live on for two years (including two trips to Europe).

Since I never intended for my novel to be a movie (and in fact was convinced it wouldn't make a good movie -- and was later proved right), I've always considered the Hollywood money to be passive income.

RLB · Aug 11, 2007

badducky said:
And anyone engaged in these sorts of things (I'm of the latter) know that these are in fact NOT passive.

Landlords must either maintain their properties or pay someone to do so.

Investors must monitor investments carefully and adjust carefully, or pay someone to do so.

...

Passive is convenient a lie told by financial planners to make people less afraid of investing.

Well, I've been a landlord and still am an investor, and you're right, both require constant vigilance and effort!

Although I would still consider the interest from our low-risk investments like savings accounts and money market accounts passive, since earning that money doesn't require any effort on our parts.

EriRae · Aug 12, 2007

Tell your brother-in-law to go ahead and write that screenplay, and see how damn passive it is. Then you can laugh when it's not formatted correctly, when he doesn't know what to do next, when he runs out of ideas, etc. etc. etc. (Oh, and tell him he needs to do it all on his own, to understand the writing process.) That way you can sit back and laugh without a vested interest.

Set him up to fail. I like giving ignorant people enough rope to hang themselves. I think that's why I was such a bad teacher.

OddButInteresting · Aug 12, 2007

maestrowork said:
I also understand why people believe that artists/writers/actors... make a lot of money because that's all they hear about the likes of Tom Cruise or JK Rowling. They don't realize that these names only represent a small percentage, an elite group of writers. And they don't understand that a lot of times it takes decades to become an overnight success, and these writers, actors, or whatever have to starve for all that time. So if you consider the amount of money a regular worker earns in 10 years (say $40,000 a year x 10 = $400,000) vs. the amount of advance a typical writer gets, they'll understand it's not really that impressive.

My thoughts precisely.

It's the mass media that makes it look easy. I remember back when I fancied myself a future Hollywood film director, but I never realised just how competitive the industry is.

maestrowork · Aug 12, 2007

Because you don't hear about the 99% who are struggling.

Jamesaritchie · Aug 12, 2007

Passive

Well, in a sense, royalties, subsidiary rights, etc., are passive income. Many pro writers, from freelancers to novelists, consider them such. This is the money that carries most of us through the dry spells.

You don't have to spend all your time promoting writing that's already sold. After a very short time, that's largely a waste, and in a sense, something best left up to an agent. You spend your time writing new material, and the passive income is what allows you to do this.

Where the guy went wrong was in saying you sit around and watch it roll in. If you're rich enough, if the royalties are large enough, you can, indeed, do this. But what most of us do is spend all our time writing new material, and the "passive" income finances our ability to do this.

seun · Aug 12, 2007

rwam said:
I'm gonna go pour a jack and coke.

Pour a coke, then jack. You'll feel better.

scarletpeaches · Aug 12, 2007

Snort coke, then jack off. Splendid!

Shara · Aug 12, 2007

Yeah, this thread covers all the things that drive me mad about non-writers who really don't get what the writing thing is all about.

I've got an acquaintance who I occasionally run into at my gym, and every time I do, we have a brief conversation along the lines of 'hi, how's it going?'. But around March time when I finished my novel, I told him this, so he said, "can I have a copy when it's published?" So I say, sure, but it's going to take a while before we get to that stage. So now every time I see him, he asks me, "has the novel been published yet?"

I really don't want to get into the conversation about how, even if I find a publisher right away, it takes a good 12 months to get from manuscript to published nove, and I'm not even at the stage of havign an agent...so I've resorted to just saying, "no not yet".

Shara

Unbelievable new spin on the dreaded, "When's your book coming out?" talk

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