How to encorporate a backstory in Fantasy without making it boring?

HopelessDreamer · Aug 9, 2007

I recently got a request for a partial (only five pages) from an agent. He rejected it because he said it wasn't as compelling has he had expected from my query.

I'm wondering if it's because I had to explain a lot in the beginning. I wrote a prologue and it didn't work, so I put it into the dialogue. I'm wondering if this makes my first chapter too boring? Obviously when writing about something that takes place in a different world, you have to explain a lot more so your readers understand. Could this just be the opinion of the agent, or could the use of so much information make the beginning of my novel less interesting? My problem is that the plot doesn't make sense without adding the information. Is there anything else I can do, or should I wait for more opinions?

blacbird · Aug 9, 2007

HopelessDreamer said:
I recently got a request for a partial (only five pages) from an agent. He rejected it because he said it wasn't as compelling has he had expected from my query.

I'm wondering if it's because I had to explain a lot in the beginning. I wrote a prologue and it didn't work, so I put it into the dialogue. I'm wondering if this makes my first chapter too boring? Obviously when writing about something that takes place in a different world, you have to explain a lot more so your readers understand. Could this just be the opinion of the agent, or could the use of so much information make the beginning of my novel less interesting? My problem is that the plot doesn't make sense without adding the information. Is there anything else I can do, or should I wait for more opinions?

Take a good critical look at how the reeeeeallly good writers do it. Start with Ursula LeGuin's Earthsea series, which I consider the best fantasy series ever, even ahead of Tolkien's epic. Mervyn Peake is worth a critical read, too. You're probably explaining far more than you need to explain. You're not writing an essay, you're writing a story. Let the narrative go, and let it "explain" only what you need to explain at the moment it needs explaining. That's pretty much what LeGuin does. It works.

caw

Danger Jane · Aug 9, 2007

One of my favorite epic fantasy type stories is the Abhorsen trilogy by Garth Nix. I don't read it for beautiful prose, I read it for the awesome cool world and the sick plot. What I like best about the world is that although it's a big departure from reality, he doesn't ever go into any kind of infodump about it because he doesn't do all those worldbuilding exercises. He figures out what he needs to know for that scene or that one setting. It works really well and it makes the world feel more real because the author is just assuming it is, so the reader must, too.

Phillip Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy is also like this. You just get immersed in this really cool, really unique world that no one ever sits down and explains to you. But it works out just great.

dclary · Aug 9, 2007

Does encorporate have a different meaning than incorporate?

Like, insure and ensure?

My-Immortal · Aug 9, 2007

I try very hard not to 'explain' anything, if I can help it, and simply allow the story to exist. I like to think that the readers will be smart enough to follow along, and as long as I've done my job, they'll figure everything out as they read further into the book.

I also try to keep backstory out of the front of the story. Often times, (IMO), backstory is more for the author and less for the reader. If the story is the 'meat' then the backstory is the 'seasoning'. You want the readers to enjoy the steak, not to choke on the salt.

If you must include backstory, don't make it a bunch of infodumps. Toss in some action, or dialogue....make sure it increases the tension of the story...or adds another layer of meaning....but bottom line it has to work for you, and it must be needed. If it's just a bunch of pretty passages explaining how the world works...well...again IMO, that's when my eyes start to glaze over and I start looking for the actual story again.

Good luck with your writing - I wish you all the best.

Take care -

HopelessDreamer · Aug 9, 2007

dclary said:
Does encorporate have a different meaning than incorporate?

Like, insure and ensure?

That was an accident that I tried to edit before I realized I couldn't... Apparently that's what happens when you try to watch Craig Ferguson and write at the same time.

Thank you for the feedback; I pulled some fantasy novels from my bookshelf and realized that the writers don't really give you all the information or even the backstories right away; they reveal it throughout the action. Perhaps I'm not giving my readers enough credit by putting all the information in the beginning. Still, I'm afraid without it, my book won't make sense.

My-Immortal · Aug 9, 2007

HopelessDreamer said:
Still, I'm afraid without it, my book won't make sense.

But does it need to make sense from the very first page? Isn't it the questions that pop into your mind as you read that makes you want to read on searching for the answers? As a reader, don't you assume that the author will eventually answer at least most (if not all) of your questions?

HopelessDreamer · Aug 9, 2007

My-Immortal said:
But does it need to make sense from the very first page? Isn't it the questions that pop into your mind as you read that makes you want to read on searching for the answers? As a reader, don't you assume that the author will eventually answer at least most (if not all) of your questions?

That's a very good point. I do have the characters conversing about the backstory and situations quite often. Perhaps I'll just add a few more subtleties into their dialogue and cut the beginning, which is thankfully only about 1,800 words.

AzBobby · Aug 9, 2007

Aside from keeping it in short doses, backstory seems to work best when it isn't necessarily backstory. That is, you've won the battle if you can make the past information part of what's happening now instead of something strictly in the past context. The hero enters the dragon's lair stepping over the skeletons of his countrymen, observing centuries of his nation's history in the symbols on their shields, mindful to move quietly lest he be burnt to a crisp like his father, etc. If something in the present doesn't bring out the importance of the past stuff in some immediate way, that's a clue that the past stuff isn't important enough to clog up your story.

mscelina · Aug 10, 2007

backstory is hard. fantasy worlds are of necessity so complex and involved that there's a strong desire on the part of the writer to get the reader immersed in it as quickly as possible. I had to cut six chapters from the beginning of my book and rework it entirely to eliminate that problem myself. Start with action. Give your characters an immediate problem or goal. The backstory will insinuate itself naturally, as they encounter specific things they have to do. Even a little bit of explanation goes a long way as long as your characters are DOING something. Good luck.

JBI · Aug 10, 2007

Look into guys like Roger Zelazny. Zelazny's style doesn't show the reader anything much until it is needed. He hints at things, and makes the reader know a million "almost things", but never really reveals anything until he needs to.

Details that are plot related should always be subtle; infodumps on this sort of stuff I find to be tedious (I also find over plotting to be that way) in addition to being boring. Try to limit details, and instead of explaining the plot or the setting, explain the characters. Through the characters what needs to be revealed shall be revealed, whereas through the plot or setting, you reveal too much.

JohnDavidPaxton · Aug 10, 2007

I equate backstory to information you don't need, not in a story, but real life.

When someone is telling you about a dream you had, it may seem interesting, or important, or fun to them, but it's sure as hell not going to be something you need to know in your life.

You put up with the blatant info dump (then I was made of chocolate and I was fight pirates with my tentacle powers when I grew sharks teeth and covered them in metal) because you like the person. Tolerate them at worst. You care enough about the situation to apply it to their life, their personality, try and see patterns and objects of interest.

My view on backstory? Don't give it until you have your reader involved in the current story. Of the authors I can think of who did info dumps at the start of their books and are still considered fun to read, only Dumas comes to mind.

In fantasy it can be tempting to put it all out there in front because YOU know you've made this vivid and fun world that you want to bring the reader into. But that is, in the truest sense, showing and not telling.

Throw the hero around. Give them a few bruises. Nearly kill them off. Then, after a while, have him ask "Hey! Where did this kick ass magic ring come from anyway? Why are there black-clad invincible creatures after me? What, in general terms, is the history behind the world in which we live?"

Hope this helps. Ignore it if it doesn't.

rugcat · Aug 10, 2007

HopelessDreamer said:
I'm wondering if this makes my first chapter too boring? . . . Obviously when writing about something that takes place in a different world, you have to explain a lot more so your readers understand. . . My problem is that the plot doesn't make sense without adding the information.

Sorry to break this to you, but you've just described one of the major difficulties in writing fantasy. There are no easy answers.

Momento Mori · Aug 10, 2007

Hopeless Dreamer:
Obviously when writing about something that takes place in a different world, you have to explain a lot more so your readers understand.

The best piece of advice I ever got told was that whilst you as a writer have to understand the world you're creating and all of the facets of it, a reader only has to believe in what you're creating and be able to follow it.

Accordingly, I think that what you need to focus on is the story that's being told - what's happening to your protagonists and why is it happening? Can you understand how they're getting from A to B to C in the story? Does it make sense? Is it exciting/mysterious/romantic/horrific? [delete as applicable] A reader is going to empathise with and relate to your protagonist(s), not your world or its set-up - take the reader straight into the action so they meet your character straight away and start hurtling along with him/her.

The set-up to your world and the backstory is then used to spice the story as the plot moves along. Drip feed it into the plot via lines of dialogue, include bits of it in descriptions of places and people and hint at it in character motivation. There are always going to be times when you need an exposition dump, but if you've set up the reader with pertinent pieces of information in advance, it can help make it less 'clunky'.

Hope that's of some use.

MM

Nangleator · Aug 10, 2007

Here's another way to deal with the info dump. Turn the backstory into something of a mystery. Your present-day characters discover things that reveal bits and pieces of the backstory. As it builds, the connections between the past and present make the backstory so much more relevant and interesting. And it explains how the present situation ended up like it is.

Done correctly, the reader will be silently begging to know more of your infodump.

MMWyrm · Aug 10, 2007

I used to infodump horribly in my fantasy fiction. I write 3rd person limited most of the time and, since I am telling the story from a character's POV, I realized that I can't give the whole history of the place. I can't imagine a character who would talk or think about world history while doing important plot-things.

ChunkyC · Aug 10, 2007

HopelessDreamer said:
I recently got a request for a partial (only five pages) from an agent. He rejected it because he said it wasn't as compelling has he had expected from my query.

I'm wondering if it's because I had to explain a lot in the beginning. I wrote a prologue and it didn't work, so I put it into the dialogue. I'm wondering if this makes my first chapter too boring? Obviously when writing about something that takes place in a different world, you have to explain a lot more so your readers understand. Could this just be the opinion of the agent, or could the use of so much information make the beginning of my novel less interesting? My problem is that the plot doesn't make sense without adding the information. Is there anything else I can do, or should I wait for more opinions?

Keep in mind also that the agent or editor knows these five pages are quite possibly one percent or less of the entire manuscript. They know you can't explain your world in only five pages. Attempting to do so might actually go against you.

At the beginning of your story, you need to raise questions in an interesting enough manner that the reader will want to read on to find the answers. At least that's how I see it.

Sassee · Aug 10, 2007

You can try to try to warn a child that fire is hot and try to explain the physics of why it would hurt him/her to touch it... but honestly, they aren't going to care about the why of it, and they aren't going to understand until they actually burn themselves.

Let the readers put together the pieces through actions and conversations. Let them discover things for themselves. The world will be more real to them that way. No need to infodump.

HopelessDreamer · Aug 10, 2007

Wow, thanks for all the helpful responses! Everyone's right, of course, the infodump was just too much information at the beginning of the novel. The readers will understand what's going on as the novel progresses. The information I gave at the beginning was just too much, and probably confusing as well if you didn't create the world yourself. For some reason I was thinking the reader had to understand every aspect of it as the writer does; I don't know why. So I cut the beginning and just let the story ease into itself.

Nangleator · Aug 10, 2007

It's probably not a terrible thing to infodump like crazy in your first draft. You can excise that later. I cut that stuff and put it after a page break at the end of my manuscript. It's as handy a place as any to keep my "notes."

HopelessDreamer · Aug 10, 2007

Unfortunately, this isn't the first draft. It could be draft seventeen, twenty-five, three-hundred and eighty (okay, that's a bit excessive...). I didn't even have the infodump in it until about two edits ago when I worried the readers wouldn't understand. I must have more faith in these nonexistent writers.

I will definitely keep it around for my own notes though. It would be horrible if I forgot the details!

frimble3 · Aug 11, 2007

If you feel you absolutely have to tell the reader all this stuff, why not stick it at the back of the book: appendices, glossaries, biographies, etc. It won't annoy the agent/publisher/general reader, but will be there for those who really want to know the history of the Troll Wars or the origins of the royal family.

badducky · Aug 11, 2007

There's another answer. Susanna Clark did it to great gusto and huzzah in "Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell".

Don't. Include no explanations whatsoever. Occasionally pop an asterisk after a reference to a NAME from the backstory, and then tell a tiny, little story in a footnote that explains everything in under 500 words, or so.

If it were me, I wouldn't even include the asterisked stories.

The important thing about a backstory is that your characters know it. Your readers only need to feel that knowledge.

MDSchafer · Aug 11, 2007

I think a lot of us newbie fantasy writers are caught up giving the reader a whole lot of information on this world we created.

Many people imitate the part of Tolkien's work that reads like a travelogue. My brother, a much bigger fantasy geek than me, says one of favorite parts of the Lord of the Rings is when Théoden orders the Red Arrow sent to Gondor. It's explained in the books that follow, but at the time, it’s just said without any exposition, and while you don't understand the exact history behind it you understand, it has to do with a long-standing treaty or agreement between the two kingdoms. Its a nice beat that adds to complexity of the world and gives it a more realistic feeling in a sentence. I think that is more along the lines of what editors and agents are looking for out of new writers.

blacbird · Aug 11, 2007

badducky said:
There's another answer. Susanna Clark did it to great gusto and huzzah in "Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell".

Don't. Include no explanations whatsoever. Occasionally pop an asterisk after a reference to a NAME from the backstory, and then tell a tiny, little story in a footnote that explains everything in under 500 words, or so.

If it were me, I wouldn't even include the asterisked stories.

The important thing about a backstory is that your characters know it. Your readers only need to feel that knowledge.

Very well put. If you feel what you're trying to put into the story is boring, that's a dead solid certainty that you should not put it into the story.

caw

How to encorporate a backstory in Fantasy without making it boring?

HopelessDreamer

blacbird

Danger Jane

dclary

Unabashed Mercenary

My-Immortal

Mr. Invisible

HopelessDreamer

My-Immortal

Mr. Invisible

HopelessDreamer

AzBobby

Ought to be writing instead

mscelina

Teh doommobile, drivin' rite by you

JBI

JohnDavidPaxton

rugcat

Lost in the Fog

Momento Mori

Tired and Disillusioned

Nangleator

Rep Point Whore

MMWyrm

ChunkyC

It's hard being green

Sassee

Momma Wolf

HopelessDreamer

Nangleator

Rep Point Whore

HopelessDreamer

frimble3

Heckuva good sport

badducky

No Time For Chitchat, Kemosabe.

MDSchafer

blacbird