Striking the Balance

eawhitt · Aug 8, 2007

I'm not sure whether I'm looking for advice or just venting a little, but I always have trouble striking the balance between too short and too long in my short story ideas. Naturally, I brew up novel-length ideas more often than not, but I've been encouraged to explore short stories as a venue to gather pub credits.

The trouble is that when I do come up with an idea that's suitable for short fiction, it unfolds too abruptly, according to my crit partners and beta readers - but then when I expand, I find myself adding so many details that before long it would be at least a novella, if not a novel... and at that point I generally shelve the project because pulling the idea back into balance is such a hassle.

This happens before I *write* more than about 3,000 words of an expansion - it hasn't run away yet, in theory, but it just becomes so much work to sort through every idea and find the ones worth keeping that I give up.

Is this a common phenomenon? What works for you to help move past it?

It's just so frustrating...

sanssouci · Aug 8, 2007

Are your stories taking place over a long period of time? I try to keep the events within a day and focus on just one event usually. If your crit group thinks it all unfolds too abruptly maybe the subject matter or the plot is too involved and doesn't work as a short story.

I've found that it's better to be detailed about a trip to the dentist than it is to write broadly on backpacking through Europe.

Keyboard Hound · Aug 8, 2007

Have you considered posting one of your stories in the Share Your Work forums? There are categories for everything.

I've found out if my basic idea is not sound to start with, I keep adding in more and more stuff--description, details, that kind of thing--trying to fix it when what I need to do is to step back and figure out why the story is not working to start with. Unless the basic story line is strong, it does not matter how much stuff goes in, it is not going to work.

Finally realizing what I've been doing gives me a better chance to come up with more satisfying stories.

eawhitt · Aug 8, 2007

sanssouci said:
Are your stories taking place over a long period of time? I try to keep the events within a day and focus on just one event usually. If your crit group thinks it all unfolds too abruptly maybe the subject matter or the plot is too involved and doesn't work as a short story.

I've found that it's better to be detailed about a trip to the dentist than it is to write broadly on backpacking through Europe.

The one I like best does have all the immediate action centered on one day, but the trouble is that the background info to set it up takes place over a much longer span (think years). Finding the balance of just enough background/detail-on-the-situation without giving more than in necessary is the trick.

And the trouble is that with this one there's really not enough to make it into a novel, either. Probably not even a novella, as that would feel like belaboring the point.

eawhitt · Aug 8, 2007

Keyboard Hound said:
Have you considered posting one of your stories in the Share Your Work forums? There are categories for everything.

I've found out if my basic idea is not sound to start with, I keep adding in more and more stuff--description, details, that kind of thing--trying to fix it when what I need to do is to step back and figure out why the story is not working to start with. Unless the basic story line is strong, it does not matter how much stuff goes in, it is not going to work.

Finally realizing what I've been doing gives me a better chance to come up with more satisfying stories.

I haven't posted it in the SYW forums yet because I got critiques from a solid group of people and haven't had time/inclination to fix it enough to feel like it was fair asking a new group to look it over.

The short stories are a sideline to monthly deadlines on my WIP novel for my grad program, so normally it gets pushed aside. In order to take the steps necessary to really resurrect this, it will take more time in a block than I've had in the last few months.

Jamesaritchie · Aug 9, 2007

eawhitt said:
I generally shelve the project because pulling the idea back into balance is such a hassle.

This happens before I *write* more than about 3,000 words of an expansion - it hasn't run away yet, in theory, but it just becomes so much work to sort through every idea and find the ones worth keeping that I give up.

Is this a common phenomenon? What works for you to help move past it?

It's just so frustrating...

First, I don;t know who encouraged you to write short stories in order to gain publication credits, but it's lousy advice. Selling a short story to a magazine that's credit worthy is one heck of a lot harder than just selling a novel to a publisher without credits. A writer can go many years, even decades, without selling a single short story to a credit worthy magazine.

The reason short stories make good publication credits is precisely because they're so incredibly difficult to write and sell.

The only reason to write short stories is because you love reading and writing short stories.

As for doing the kind of work you mention, did you expect it to be easy? Of course it's a hassle. Of course it's a lot of work. If you want an easy job, go shovel coal or dig a ditch.

Hitting length does get a lot easier with practice, sorting out what to put in and what to leave out does get easier with practice, a lot of practice, but there's always work involved.

Now, I believe any idea, and idea at all, can be written as either a short story or a novel. It's a matter of knowing how to develop the idea so it fits the tapestry you're weaving. But it ain't easy, and trying to do it solely to gain publication credits is just not likely to work.

If you prefer writing novels, if you think you're better at writing novels, then stick to writing novels. The competition level in the short story market is much higher, much tougher, than the completion level for novels.

You stand a heck of a lot better chance of selling a novel in order to get pub credits for short stories, than the other way around.

eawhitt · Aug 9, 2007

Jamesaritchie said:
First, I don;t know who encouraged you to write short stories in order to gain publication credits, but it's lousy advice. Selling a short story to a magazine that's credit worthy is one heck of a lot harder than just selling a novel to a publisher without credits. A writer can go many years, even decades, without selling a single short story to a credit worthy magazine.

The reason short stories make good publication credits is precisely because they're so incredibly difficult to write and sell.

The only reason to write short stories is because you love reading and writing short stories.

As for doing the kind of work you mention, did you expect it to be easy? Of course it's a hassle. Of course it's a lot of work. If you want an easy job, go shovel coal or dig a ditch.

Hitting length does get a lot easier with practice, sorting out what to put in and what to leave out does get easier with practice, a lot of practice, but there's always work involved.

Now, I believe any idea, and idea at all, can be written as either a short story or a novel. It's a matter of knowing how to develop the idea so it fits the tapestry you're weaving. But it ain't easy, and trying to do it solely to gain publication credits is just not likely to work.

If you prefer writing novels, if you think you're better at writing novels, then stick to writing novels. The competition level in the short story market is much higher, much tougher, than the completion level for novels.

You stand a heck of a lot better chance of selling a novel in order to get pub credits for short stories, than the other way around.

Hm, looks like I mis-typed on that - the recommendation was aimed more at getting me more experience with writing queries and accepting rejections, since I'll be one of the first to admit that I haven't been shopping my work for long. Since short fiction is completed faster, so in theory I would be able to start the query process faster as well. I've been writing a long time, but am new to the selling it aspect. And of course, if a pub credit comes along in the process, all the better.

I disagree that the ONLY reason to write short stories is because one likes reading and writing them. That seems rather short-sighted. It's an exercise in making my brain think differently, and that's never a bad thing. Who knows what new ideas I might bring to my novel as a result of dabbling in short fiction?

I'm not so naive to think any aspect of any writing is "easy", any more than playing a piano concerto is easy. Forgive me if I gave that impression, because my intention was to ask those who are, in theory, more practiced at this whether they know any tricks or guidelines that might help me in finding that balance. Obviously the best and final answer to that is that over time each person finds their own best method - I knew that before I posted.

It just seemed smart to see whether part of someone else's best method might be useful for me as I make my way down the same path.

RRK · Aug 9, 2007

eawhitt, I've been training myself to write short stories as well. Before this year I'd only ever tried to write novels (thus resulting in about twenty poorly-written, half-finished manuscripts clogging up my hard drive). I took a creative writing class that focuses on short stories, but I still have trouble with the length sometimes. Sometimes it comes to me perfectly, and I end up with a 5- to 7-thousand word story; more often, though, I start adding a little here and there and suddenly realize that the only way it can be as complete as I want it is if I make it a novel. Hopefully JAR's right, and it's just something that comes with practice.

Jamesaritchie · Aug 9, 2007

Fiction

Writing an dsubmitting short stories would get you used to rejection, but isn't it better to get used to acceptance?

As for queries, I don't see how writing short stories will aid you in writing queries? Very darned few magazines want queries for short stories, and won't even read them. For short stories, editors want to see the complete manuscript, not a query.

Writing short stories just isn't going to aid your novel writing very much. You learn to write novels by writing novels, not by writing short stories. Writing short stories can, in fact, screw you up royally when you go back to a novel.

As for the process of finding a balance, I think you just have to read about a million short stories, and write a hundred or so. Balance is about structure, and understanding how much detail goes in, how many characters go in, that subplot must be kept to a bare minimum, if one is included at all, and that a short story is usually, not always, but usually about a single event.

Start writing as late in the story as possible, which means as close to the end as possible, start the climb toward the climax immediately, don't bring in a single character who isn't directly involved in the main event, and concentrate solely on story arc.

A novel is a movie, but a short story is closer to a photo. One main event.

When first learning to write short stories, I think it's best to give your story three acts, and no matter what, do not let any of these acts go beyond 1,000 words. Act one is the opening, act two is the middle, and act three is the climax and anti climax. If you find act one going short, stretch it out. If you find act one going long, stop right then and make cuts.

Summonere · Aug 9, 2007

I always have trouble striking the balance between too short and too long in my short story ideas.

Could always try reading lots and lots of short stories. Maybe even examining them to see how they're put together, how they hit their marks, as it were, then practice what you've studied. You'll get better at writing these things by reading many examples and trying to write some yourself. Doing that, you'll eventually develop a feel for when things need to happen in your shorter work to stay on pace. All of this reading, by the way, helps establish a sense of architecture somewhere in your brain by providing a huge set of models. They'll hover quietly in the background anytime you write, nodding when things move apace, shaking their heads if you begin to wobble.

Naturally, I brew up novel-length ideas more often than not...

So why not write novels, then? The pay is usually a lot better than what you'll get in most short story markets.

...but I've been encouraged to explore short stories as a venue to gather pub credits.

This seems to be an old-fashioned notion. If you want to be a novelist, you'll have to write novels, not short stories. Professional I-make-my-living-doing-this writer friend of mine once said that short stories are just as hard to write as novels, only novels pay better. If you can write well enough to sell one or the other, then why not write where the money is?

eawhitt · Aug 9, 2007

Jamesaritchie said:
Writing an dsubmitting short stories would get you used to rejection, but isn't it better to get used to acceptance?

As for queries, I don't see how writing short stories will aid you in writing queries? Very darned few magazines want queries for short stories, and won't even read them. For short stories, editors want to see the complete manuscript, not a query.

Writing short stories just isn't going to aid your novel writing very much. You learn to write novels by writing novels, not by writing short stories. Writing short stories can, in fact, screw you up royally when you go back to a novel.

As for the process of finding a balance, I think you just have to read about a million short stories, and write a hundred or so. Balance is about structure, and understanding how much detail goes in, how many characters go in, that subplot must be kept to a bare minimum, if one is included at all, and that a short story is usually, not always, but usually about a single event.

Start writing as late in the story as possible, which means as close to the end as possible, start the climb toward the climax immediately, don't bring in a single character who isn't directly involved in the main event, and concentrate solely on story arc.

A novel is a movie, but a short story is closer to a photo. One main event.

When first learning to write short stories, I think it's best to give your story three acts, and no matter what, do not let any of these acts go beyond 1,000 words. Act one is the opening, act two is the middle, and act three is the climax and anti climax. If you find act one going short, stretch it out. If you find act one going long, stop right then and make cuts.

Thanks, you've given me a lot to think about.
All the best,

Kate Thornton · Aug 10, 2007

I know I just said this in another thread, but I think you could write your "long" story - then go back and edit for tightness, clarity and word count. Setting up a long and complicated back-story is usually unecessary - do it in three sentences, maximum. If it's not the main plot point, you don't have to describe the apocalypse - just say it happened.

I write short stories - and it's a lot harder than writing something long. But it's a very satisfying form for me.

eawhitt · Aug 18, 2007

Thanks to everyone for you comments and advice!

Striking the Balance

eawhitt

sanssouci

Keyboard Hound

Old kid. Tough skin!!

eawhitt

eawhitt

Jamesaritchie

eawhitt

RRK

I named the dog Indiana

Jamesaritchie

Summonere

eawhitt

Kate Thornton

Still Happy to be Here. Or Anywhere

eawhitt