Writing Something Worth Reading

John61480 · Aug 8, 2007

How do I start? Well, I read two posts today based on gender related stuff with regards to readership. This honestly took away any hope for worthwhile writing in me.

All I can say is, it may be smart to watch trends, but it is even smarter to watch yourself. I have come to the conclusion that any "cool" or inventive story idea that I could come up with would only appeal to me or people like me because of the subject nature/tone.

After thinking for a little while in the shower, I think the two smartest solutions for me in writing would be to stick with a Young Adult voice and/or get to know a lot of manly things, like Government, Military, Criminal Justice, Health Science and so on because I'm a 27 year old male. And I do have to tell you, this really shook me up. If only people put a disclaimer on Art as a whole that if you want to sell music, books or anything else, it has to appeal to the broad audience that buys it (Can't sell grunge music now a days can you?). I won't keep discussing this track because I know that it's all about what I enjoy, what makes me happy and so on.

I wonder if there's anything else I missed? My best guess to do something cool or inventive still would be to put myself as an 8th grader and imagine what would I think is awesome in a scene by scene analysis. But even that seems flawed.

Have any of you come to this conclusion earlier and just accepted this? Is that why there aren't as many extreme examples of writing that really pulls a reader in a different direction? I've looked at iUniverse books and other similar POD houses, and none seem to really push boundaries. Only a few professionally published stuff have occurred, but only as dares and incentives to try. An example would be like those old Clive Barker short stories.

This can really put a creative crimp on a writer. I'm definitely not using another Stephen King example, because I enjoyed him fully in middle school, early twenties and even now. But he is far from related things such as the movie Hostel (a still recent horrifying movie if there was one) or Wolf Creek (another recent horrifying movie). Does that seem to put everything together?

I hope I'm making some sense and could hear some opinions about this. I am a beginning writer and originally started because I thought I had some neat ideas which I wanted write about and sell. I have no publishing credits, no professional schooling, and the few books I've read on writing are just that few.

Willowmound · Aug 8, 2007

Write what you want to read, is what I say. What I do too. If you're in writing for the money, you're probably in the wrong business.

RRK · Aug 8, 2007

John,

Much as I love AW, I think there's some danger of writers psyching themselves out because of it. As a fairly beginning writer myself, I had never given much thought to what general readers like--I always figured that as long as I wrote the kind of things I liked, surely there would be others out there who would like it as well. Then I got nervous when I read the male v. female MC thread (my MC is female, and is going to stay that way), which prompted me to start the gender-balancing thread, mostly so that I could get plenty of reassurance that it's fine if four of my characters are female and two are male, whatever I feel works best.

Basically, I'm forcing myself to mentally backtrack. Yes, it's important that readers ultimately want to read what you've written--but I'm convinced that "readers" covers a very broad spectrum of people. I'm going to write what I want to read. Maybe when I'm done I'll edit it to be more market-conscious, but right now I think that's less important.

Just my 2 cents.

Willowmound · Aug 8, 2007

With the male/female thing -- I fully believe a male MC is a better bet commerically than a female MC. But that doesn't stop me from having a female MC in my WIP. Because I'm writing her story. Other considerations be damned!

And ultimately -- I believe this too -- that is the attitude you need to write good stories. Stories that have soul. Because they grow from yours.

Azraelsbane · Aug 8, 2007

Write for yourself, not for others. If you attempt to write what others want and ignore what you feel you should be writing, it'll end up dry and lifeless.

If you want to tell a specific story, tell it. If it gets published and people love it, great. If not, at least you have the satisfaction of knowing that you wrote that story you always wanted to get on paper.

swvaughn · Aug 8, 2007

You're giving me an identity crisis!!

I have to ponder this now, too. Sigh.

Lady Cat · Aug 8, 2007

You need to stop worrying so much about what potential readers want. Write what you want to read. Besides, trends change all the time. What's hot today may be cold tomorrow.

Many's the time I've searched my bookshelves for something to read and couldn't find what I'm looking for only to realize it's because I haven't written yet.

And I happen to like grunge rock (some of it, anyway)

III · Aug 8, 2007

Write from the heart of John D. McDonald. It's the one thing you can do that nobody else can. You're the world-champ at it. Write things that move you personally; things that are entertaining or important to YOU. Some people will like them and some people won't.

Just pour your heart into your work and continue to improve in the craft of writing by learning from your own experience and the experience of others.

Now somebody else give me the same pep-talk. I need it.

joyce · Aug 8, 2007

John - I agree with the others, just write what you want to write. If you write something just to fit into a market and it does not come from your heart, it will be dry and lifeless. I am also new to trying to get my novel published and believe me I've ran into some discouraging moments. I had one agent tell me my work was too controversial to get published by a first time writer. He blew the wind out of my sails for a moment, but then I had to realize it was only one persons opinion. Write what you enjoy writing about otherwise writing becomes more like a job you hate. Good luck and keep your chin up.......remember you are not the only one out there getting depressed sometimes over the publishing/getting an agent business.

Willowmound · Aug 8, 2007

III, write from your heart. No one else can. Unless you do it, it won't get done. Now write, man, write!

HourglassMemory · Aug 8, 2007

I'm constantly reminding myself to write what I want to see on the finished book.
I do think sometimes, "Oh people woudln't like that.....that would be too boring for someone who doesn't like the same things as me."
But I quickly discard them!
Write what you want to see on the shelf.
Write so that people like you can enjoy the stories you have to tell.

John61480 · Aug 8, 2007

Write from the heart of John D. McDonald...III

I thought so, but I have to tell you, growing up, I'd been subjected to some of the worse taste in creative culture. 90's Grunge was only the beginning. So my perception is way off the beaten path and anything I am able to conjure will turn off many grown ups or growing up adults.

If you're in writing for the money, you're probably in the wrong business...Willowmound

Money. What can I say, I don't know. But readership. That's where I feel something tingle. Having fans that enjoy what I've written. And I do not mean family and friends, workshop critiques and such. They have their place, but I guess I'm looking for something a little more serious in this relationship.

Write for yourself, not for others. If you attempt to write what others want and ignore what you feel you should be writing, it'll end up dry and lifeless...Azraelbane

If I can flex creatively with what I am made of, I'm sure I can be inspired to write for enjoyment.

You need to stop worrying so much about what potential readers want. Write what you want to read. Besides, trends change all the time. What's hot today may be cold tomorrow.

Many's the time I've searched my bookshelves for something to read and couldn't find what I'm looking for only to realize it's because I haven't written yet.

And I happen to like grunge rock (some of it, anyway)...LadyCat

I notice that not so much in trends, like non-fiction, but there is some underlying standard published authors are able to use time and again that reinforces reader's perception. Like is this horror really fantasy?

He blew the wind out of my sails for a moment, but then I had to realize it was only one persons opinion...joyce

That same person must have spent time realizing business expectations. The agent must have read a lot of beginning manuscripts, seasoned writers who spend years honing their craft and not yet published, and finally reading professionally published and publicly accepted. Just from reading query letters about themselves, the agent eventually gets a big hint as he reads the manuscript and puts two and two together.

Maybe when I'm done I'll edit it to be more market-conscious, but right now I think that's less important.
...RRK

Interesting because as I recall working on previous stuff, a lot of what you write between the lines still shows up, intended or not. That's hard to watch because the public might catch an angle not already present on your radar. Which is why I seem never ready and I'm always fussing with stuff I come up with. I'm working my way around it though.

Dave.C.Robinson · Aug 8, 2007

I write because people don't write the books I want to read fast enough-- even though there's always a pile of books waiting for me to read them.

Scothoser · Aug 8, 2007

John, as an historian, I can tell you that no matter what you write, you will always share a bit of you in it. Bias is something people claim they don't have, yet it effects every decision and comment they make. Your background makes you who you are, and that will definitely translate to the written word, now matter how hard you try to hide it.

Now, is this the end of your writing career before you even started? Absolutely not! Remember that J.R.R. Tollkien wrote to a specific audience: his Lord of the Ring series was written as an epic, much like Homer's work. Yet it struck a chord with a huge group of mostly college students that wanted something more in their readership experience. Now it's become a whole genre of fantasy fiction!

Remember that even though you are unique, a lot of people can identify with the issues and situations that you create within your writing. They can identify with it, because it is a part of who you are, and that makes the situations real. Whether it's the next Harry Potter or not, it's still going to reach out to someone.

And don't get discouraged with niche markets. Attack of the Killer Tomatoes is definitely a niche market, and they made (and still make) enough money off of that movie to make sequels, and even a T.V. Cartoon show! All because the ridiculousness and ineptitude of the government is so real in exaggeration that we laugh.

Ultimately, it's your decision. Write because you enjoy it, not because you want to appeal to the masses. make it as real to your experience as you want. And don't forget, Young Adult fiction is a great seller. ^_^

Jamesaritchie · Aug 8, 2007

Originalty

I firmly believe the only original thing there is in the whole world is the individual person.

The only way I know to make anything original is to put yourself into it. If you do this, and assuming you do it well, the number of readers will probably astound you.

Good writers, King, Bradbury, or you name them do not write for an audience, they write for themselves, and simply trust doing so will draw enough readers to matter.

Writing for an audience is never a good idea. Writing for yourself is.

Claudia Gray · Aug 8, 2007

Willowmound said:
With the male/female thing -- I fully believe a male MC is a better bet commerically than a female MC. But that doesn't stop me from having a female MC in my WIP. Because I'm writing her story. Other considerations be damned!

My agent has actually asked me to backburner an idea I have that has a male MC, because female MCs tend to sell better. OTOH, in certain genres that may not be true.

Shadow_Ferret · Aug 8, 2007

John61480 said:
I have come to the conclusion that any "cool" or inventive story idea that I could come up with would only appeal to me or people like me because of the subject nature/tone.

Exactly the audience you SHOULD be writing for instead of trying to write stories for an audience you couldn't care less about.

mscelina · Aug 8, 2007

Originality is nothing but judicious imitation. The most original writers borrowed from one another. The instruction we find in books is like fire. We fetch it from our neighbours, kindle it at home, communicate it to others, and it becomes the property of all -- Voltaire

I think this sums it up.

Dancre · Aug 8, 2007

John61480 said:
How do I start? Well, I read two posts today based on gender related stuff with regards to readership. This honestly took away any hope for worthwhile writing in me.

All I can say is, it may be smart to watch trends, but it is even smarter to watch yourself. I have come to the conclusion that any "cool" or inventive story idea that I could come up with would only appeal to me or people like me because of the subject nature/tone.

After thinking for a little while in the shower, I think the two smartest solutions for me in writing would be to stick with a Young Adult voice and/or get to know a lot of manly things, like Government, Military, Criminal Justice, Health Science and so on because I'm a 27 year old male. And I do have to tell you, this really shook me up. If only people put a disclaimer on Art as a whole that if you want to sell music, books or anything else, it has to appeal to the broad audience that buys it (Can't sell grunge music now a days can you?). I won't keep discussing this track because I know that it's all about what I enjoy, what makes me happy and so on.

I wonder if there's anything else I missed? My best guess to do something cool or inventive still would be to put myself as an 8th grader and imagine what would I think is awesome in a scene by scene analysis. But even that seems flawed.

Have any of you come to this conclusion earlier and just accepted this? Is that why there aren't as many extreme examples of writing that really pulls a reader in a different direction? I've looked at iUniverse books and other similar POD houses, and none seem to really push boundaries. Only a few professionally published stuff have occurred, but only as dares and incentives to try. An example would be like those old Clive Barker short stories.

This can really put a creative crimp on a writer. I'm definitely not using another Stephen King example, because I enjoyed him fully in middle school, early twenties and even now. But he is far from related things such as the movie Hostel (a still recent horrifying movie if there was one) or Wolf Creek (another recent horrifying movie). Does that seem to put everything together?

I hope I'm making some sense and could hear some opinions about this. I am a beginning writer and originally started because I thought I had some neat ideas which I wanted write about and sell. I have no publishing credits, no professional schooling, and the few books I've read on writing are just that few.

Ok, first of all, take a deep breath in, hold it, let it out. Repeat. Second, toss this post into the toilet and flush. Note: The post, not the computer. Third. Write what excites you, makes your blood pump, makes you lie in bed at night and see yourself in the story.

I write fantasy b/c I LOVE it!! I have cool guys and weird creatures. Why? B/c I love it!!! I also have a Christian undertone b/c that's who I am!! So the moral of the story is write what you find interesting, throw in your passion and your excitement and you'll have a great story. Stop trying to be 'perfect', just have fun. There's no rule to what to write or what is 'readable'. Just do what interests you and it will interest others. Ok???

kim

Dancre · Aug 8, 2007

Shadow_Ferret said:
Exactly the audience you SHOULD be writing for instead of trying to write stories for an audience you couldn't care less about.

I write for . . . . me!!! I'm the audience. And I like my novel. So I passed it onto my beta reader who had one word for my novel. WOW!! Now that made me happy. She loved what I loved. Cool, huh??

kim

bethany · Aug 8, 2007

They sell grunge music all the time, they just call it new rock now, or maybe that term is even past it's prime, incessantly whining garage rock?

Long live Nirvana!

And I agree w/everyone here, write what you want to write, being conscious of your audience as a driving force while you are creating is not productive, though considering your readers as you revise can be helpful!

Dancre · Aug 8, 2007

bethany said:
They sell grunge music all the time, they just call it new rock now, or maybe that term is even past it's prime, incessantly whining garage rock?

Long live Nirvana!

And I agree w/everyone here, write what you want to write, being conscious of your audience as a driving force while you are creating is not productive, though considering your readers as you revise can be helpful!

exactly. I'm writing YA fantasy and I'm doing what I like, but I remember, I'm writing for teens so I keep down the adultish tone.

kim

job · Aug 8, 2007

Any novel-length work you write is going to take up months of your life. Maybe a year. Maybe more.

You're going to be living with it; sleeping in the same bed; sharing the shower. By the time you're doing the final edits, your food is going to taste of your story.

Pick a character who fascinates you. Bring him to life.

Concentrate on writing the story,
(that's your part,)
instead of anything about selling the book,
(that's your publisher's job.)

wayndom · Aug 8, 2007

Willowmound said:
Write what you want to read, is what I say. What I do too. If you're in writing for the money, you're probably in the wrong business.

I'm with him, except I disagree with the money part.

I believe the surest way to make money from your writing is to write what you want to read (and hope others want to read it, too).

I can't think of anything worse than trying to write something that will attempt to appeal to "today's" audience, by studying trend lines and fads.

I think it's blatantly obvious that the success of filmmakers Sam Raimi and Steven Speilberg is due entirely to their goal of making movies they want to see.

If you write what you want to read, you're writing from the heart, which is the one quality in writing that can't be learned. If you learn your craft and write what you want to read, you'll be in a better position to really catch on than if you try to write what you think others want to read.

wayndom · Aug 8, 2007

Oh, and there's another important reason not to follow trends: There's no guarantee that the trend you've chosen will still be trendy by the time your work is ready for publication.

Writing Something Worth Reading

The Elements of Style

Lightly salted

I named the dog Indiana

Lightly salted

Agony is defeat

adrift

rockin the suburbs

I'm really shy...

Lightly salted

The Elements of Style

... with the High Command

Court Jester

Teh doommobile, drivin' rite by you

Just have fun.

Just have fun.

:)

Just have fun.

In the end, it's just you and the manuscript