Proper prose vs. vivid writing

I tend to fall in the "easy to read" camp myself, within reason. Proper tenses, subject-verb agreement and whatnot are still important, but I've never been one to balk at fragments, etc.

I also think it depends on the story. YA is going to be different from literary. Chick lit is going to be different from a heavy historical, etc.

Read it out loud, with expression. If it fits easily in your mouth, you've got good language.

Good language can be stately and proper and deeply cadenced, or it can be jittery and skittish.
But if you can say it out loud and it 'sings', you're right.

This is a third draft thingum anyway. Just get it down iin electrons.

Weatherby said:

As I write, there are constantly two little voices battling for supremacy in my brain.

One voice says: "Hey, that prose is very nice, but it's not proper. You've used too many adverbs, changed tense, and used two ellipses in one paragraph! For shame!"

The other voice says: "Psssh. Proper prose is for English majors. This stuff is easy to read, engaging, entertaining and vivid! Who cares if its frowned upon by people with beehives and bifocals? The readers will love it!"

Usually this results in me staring blankly into space, wondering if I should enlist the help of a therapist.

A lot of popular YA books have very clunky prose, but they're also quite easy to read.

Seriously, though, what are your thoughts? Is proper prose more important than writing that is fun and easy to read?

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Depends on the book category and the audience. If we're talking about YA urban fantasy, then proper prose is far, far less important than voice, characterization and a good plot (speaking as a 17 year-old YA reader/writer). Very few teens read with proper prose at the forefront of their mind. They want an accessible voice, and interesting characters in interesting situations.

Obviously you want to keep it as 'proper' as the text will allow, because the rules are generally there to help readability rather than hinder it. However, if you have a stylistic reason to do something that might be deemed 'improper,' then go ahead and do it. You can do whatever you want, as long as it works. Even in literary fiction, it's the books that produce fresh, innovative prose to breathtaking effect that are applauded, not necessarily the ones that follow every writerly rule by the book (pardon the pun).

Weatherby said:

The other voice says: "Psssh. Proper prose is for English majors. This stuff is easy to read, engaging, entertaining and vivid! Who cares if its frowned upon by people with beehives and bifocals? The readers will love it!"

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If you're actually right about this, go with the non-proper prose. But generally speaking, we all think our prose is wonderful, and we all think readers will love it..

Honestly, I think there has to be a balance. There are times to use proper prose, and times not to use proper prose. But there's never a time to use bad prose.

I would disagree with you saying a lot of YA books have clunky prose. First, clunky does not mean the prose isn't proper. Second, most of them just do not, from my reading experience.

I agree that a lot of the writing don'ts that come up in the SYW crits (such as the ones you're refering to) depend on the genre.

For instance, I'm reading a bunch of stuff from a really popular romance author, and she not only has a god awful number of adverbs (so much that I feel like I'm drowning in them) but also POV hops like mad (several per PARAGRAPH at times). And this author has a series of 15 or 16 books that sells very well. I went back to some other books I read a few months back and skimmed the first few pages of them and was shocked to find that they had many of the same problems, but I just hadn't noticed.

Ever since I started coming to this forum, I've found it much harder to get through books that I would have likely flown through and enjoyed beforehand. I have no doubt that stylistically, this site has improved my writing, but whether or not what I've learned is necessary to be popular in my genre is another thing entirely.

As always the answer is: it depends.

Just my thoughts.

I love reading easy and funny. I also like writing easy to read with humor. However, when posting samples, it dosn't go good. I also have rejections to prove it didn't get me through the door. I have no answers for your questions, so whatever you find out, please let me know.

I think deviations from the rules of "proper" prose are fine as long as you're not doing it 100% of the time. It should always, always be for a reason, and you should always be aware of your deviation and why you are doing it. If I, as a reader, suspect that your deviation is not intentional, but actually that you are not in control of your prose, or that you don't know how to write correctly... I will chuck the book. Sorry.

If the reader notices your prose...

...then, unless that's your intent, your prose is broken. Transparent is good.

I don't think "Proper Prose" and "Vivid Writing" are always two separate categories. In fact, I'd guess they go together more often than not.

ClaudiaGray said:

I don't think "Proper Prose" and "Vivid Writing" are always two separate categories. In fact, I'd guess they go together more often than not.

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I agree. Especially thinking that proper prose is not easy to read. On the contrary, if it's proper that means it's well written and ergo easily understood.

Oftimes the "vivid writing" with too many adverbs, changed tense, and used two ellipses in one paragraph is hard to understand.

Things can often seem vivid to us when we write them, that will be muddy to those trying to read them. But whatever works for the readers is the right thing to do.

ClaudiaGray said:

I don't think "Proper Prose" and "Vivid Writing" are always two separate categories. In fact, I'd guess they go together more often than not.

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I second this, for emphasis.

caw

blacbird said:

I second this, for emphasis.

caw

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I thought I seconded it first.

Effective voice trumps proper prose every time.

HOWEVER, your proper prose voice advises against too many adverbs. That's not really propriety, that's good writing.

I always avoided overly-proper English in my prose. For one thing, I've tried never to use semicolons, because they look so formal and academic -- instead, I use dashes.

So naturally, I was delighted to get confirmation while reading an interview with Elmore Leonard, in which he said he avoids using semicolons, 'cause they're too formal-looking, preferring dashes instead.

job said:

Read it out loud, with expression. If it fits easily in your mouth, you've got good language.

Good language can be stately and proper and deeply cadenced, or it can be jittery and skittish.
But if you can say it out loud and it 'sings', you're right.

This is a third draft thingum anyway. Just get it down iin electrons.

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Good idea, says I.