What to do when unpublished MS is stolen

First, you need to describe what you mean by "stolen."

Secondly, you need a lawyer who specializes in copyright.

Thirdly, you don't want to go into a lot of detail about the circumstances on a public forum.

Fourthly -- this is exceedingly rare, not very likely, and it almost always turns out to not be a copyright violation.

If you are a member of the national writers union you have free representation. If not, there are places you can google who will rep you pro bono.

But atual theft of a manuscript is incredibly rare.

jedimaster107 said:

What do you do when someone steals your unpublished ms? How do you prove you are the orginal owner of that story without hiring a laywer because you can't afford one?

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To quote: http://www.copyright.org.au/G084.pdf (Yes, I know it is Australian - but the same principles apply)

It is rare to be in a position where you have to prove that you are the creator of something.

If there’s a dispute about who created something .. the most important evidence would usually be oral evidence from the creator and from people who were present when the material was being created or who saw early drafts. Other evidence may include drafts of the work.

If you are concerned that you might at some stage need to prove you own copyright in something you have created, any of the following procedures might help you ensure that you have some relevant evidence:
• keep dated drafts, plans, and outlines of the work;
• keep dated records of research done in creating the work;
• discuss the work with others, and/or show drafts or finished versions to others;
• keep written records of any agreements you make concerning creation of material or ownership of copyright in material.

Someone who takes legal action falsely claiming to own copyright runs the risk of serious legal consequences if he or she is found to have lied to a court.

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Let's pretend there is a dispute between A & B over the authorship of a story.

* A's entire writing group states that they saw previous drafts, discussed changes, etc. In fact, they had to put up with 'A' droning on endlessly about this story for the past 3 years.
* A can produce comments from the online critique group
* A also has plenty of previous drafts, complete with typos. You can even see where she decided to get rid of an entire subplot, and merged two characters.
* A has notes from all the research she did on that obscure part of history.

* B claims that he wrote the story - but didn't keep any drafts, or discuss it with anyone else. Or do any research. It must have come to him in a single sitting.

Who would be believed?
If 'B' wanted to fake older evidence, it would be a nightmare. He'd have to carefully write in extra sections and characters in the same style, just so they could be cut out again! Over and over - basically writing a novel backwards. And then fake the time/date stamps on all 20-200 versions of the files in the correct order!

The solution is simple. Talk endlessly to everyone you know about your novel. Keep copies of earlier drafts with the date scribbled on them. Keep copies of critiques,

That's it. Oh - and stop worrying.

Good luck,

Mac

Well put, Mac.

Yeah, what Mac said. Keep copies, let some people see them, email them to yourself (they're dated), heck, folks will say the poor man's copyright is useless, but if it makes you feel better, then mail a copy to yourself and don't open the envelope. Or you can always register it with the Copyright Office for a small fee.

And you can file a civil suit without a lawyer in the US. A lawyer knows the system better, sure, but you can always learn what you need to know. A good place to start would be www.copyright.gov. Then check with magistrate court (I think that's the right one) and find out the procedure for filing suit.

I don't think it's a matter of 'poor people are screwed'. All it takes is smarts and determination, and those are free.

And, if, say, it was JK Rowling who stole your manuscript, a lawyer would work on contigency. He won't get paid until you do. If there's a potential of a lot of money coming in, most lawyers won't ask for anything up front. It's the losing cases that they require a retainer. I had a friend who sued her employer, and because the case was so clear, she didn't come out of pocket with anything until the case was settled. She was poor no more. The lawyer took his 1/3.

Also bear in mind that even if someone DOES steal a MS, it doesn't necessarily mean they'll be able to sell it. The sorts of people who COULD sell it -- editors and agents -- won't steal your work, because their livelihood depends upon their integrity.

jedimaster said:

That's what's getting ignored. Sure someone who can afford it will hire a lawyer. But what about that person who is struggling to make ends meat and that person's ms is stolen. how does that person fight it?

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Same way as someone who's Not Poor. You get a lawyer on retainer. It has nothing to do with "poor people get screwed, woe is me". If you have a case, it won't be an issue.

jedimaster107 said:

This has never happened to me. It's just a question and answer i think that needs addressed.

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Oh good lord.

Yes. This has been addressed.

First of all, an unsold ms. is commercially valueless.

Agents and editors don't steal mss.

Secondly, keep your drafts, files and hardcopies, and date them.

Thirdly, if you have a good case, a lawyer takes the case on contingency--if you win, the lawyer is paid from the damages; if you lose, it doesn't cost you except for court fees, which are not much.

If it goes to trial, you are examined by both sides; you will be asked very detailed questions about how you wrote the piece, why you wrote it as you did, etc.

Someone will likely be called on as an expert witness to talk about your writing style, based on comparing the ms. with other things you've written.

I'm a lawyer. (Not giving legal advice here, just general information.) Lawyers are in the business of looking for risks and helping clients do a risk analysis and then take actions that balance the potential risks with the potential rewards.

When it comes to having an unknown author's manuscript stolen by anyone who could get it published, the risk is very, very low. As a lawyer, I'd never a tell a client there was zero risk, but in this scenario, truly, it's almost non-existent.

That's the shorthand version of the risk assessment for manuscript submission. And the only way to bring the risk down to zero is to not submit the manuscript anywhere. Which brings us to the other side of the equation -- the benefits that can accrue from accepting the risk and submitting the manuscript to someone who either can provide feedback to improve the story or can buy (or negotiate the purchase) of the manuscript.

Note that this risk analysis isn't particularly different from any other business transaction you may enter into. Let's say you buy something expensive at a store. There's a risk it'll be defective and the store won't honor its warranty of merchantability, and you'll need to either sue the store yourself or hire a lawyer (who's unlikely to take that type of case on a contingency basis).

The bottom line: there's risk in everything we do, from the minute we get up in the morning, until the minute we get up the next morning. We still do stuff, because the benefits of taking action outweigh the likely risks. We don't stop living our lives based on the possibility that we might be on the losing end of the risk/benefit scenario sometimes and will be unable to hire a lawyer (which is, really, the only reasonable thing to do if someone were to steal a manuscript and make huge amounts of money by publishing it, and in that situation, if the money involved were large enough, a lawyer might be willing to take it on a contingency fee basis).

So, yeah, even though I'm a professional worrier, I advise not worrying about things you can't control. If you let the fear of the manuscript being stolen prevent you from letting appropriate people read your manuscript, it will cripple your writing and your chances of ever being published.

JD

Heed these people young Jedi. In tune with The Force they are. Stolen your work will never be.

you might want to take the information your MIL is giving you with a grain of salt - everyone tends to think that *they* have the only take on a story or a twist on a tale and that somehow the Big Bad Industry has stolen it away from them.

I agree that agents or editors aren't going to steal your work.

As siddow stated:

Or you can always register it with the Copyright Office for a small fee.

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The very best line of defense in protecting your work is to register the work with the copyright office. Since I am dealing with some "issues" surrounding the book that I published (and have had to hire a lawyer) I have learned that the copyright office will stand behind me if (or when) my text is stolen. I was very impressed recently when I received a prompt reply from the copyright office in answer to my concerns about my work that I have registered there.

Your work is still your work even if you haven't registered it, but....and here's the big but, you must then prove it is your work. Obviously, this would likely be much more costly than had you registered the work in the first place.

If your work is registered with the copyright office the monetary damages for theft of your work is huge in comparison to those who have not registered their work.

The $45 fee for having your work registered and on file with the copyright office is well worth the protection of that work.

writeitdown said:

I agree that agents or editors aren't going to steal your work.

As siddow stated:

The very best line of defense in protecting your work is to register the work with the copyright office. Since I am dealing with some "issues" surrounding the book that I published (and have had to hire a lawyer) I have learned that the copyright office will stand behind me if (or when) my text is stolen. I was very impressed recently when I received a prompt reply from the copyright office in answer to my concerns about my work that I have registered there.

Your work is still your work even if you haven't registered it, but....and here's the big but, you must then prove it is your work. Obviously, this would likely be much more costly than had you registered the work in the first place.

If your work is registered with the copyright office the monetary damages for theft of your work is huge in comparison to those who have not registered their work.

The $45 fee for having your work registered and on file with the copyright office is well worth the protection of that work.

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What if you're finished with a draft, then later, the work is edited, slightly re-written. Is it still under copyright? Or would one have to re-register? I've been following this thread; sorry for the "hit-and-run."

Some, perhaps many, publishers want nothing to do with previously-registered manuscripts. The dates of registration and publication can be years removed from each other, leaving prospective buyers to wonder why someone is flogging a four-year-old book as "new."

It also sends a clear signal to the agent/publisher that they're dealing with a nervous-nellie newbie. Most NNNs also suffer from Golden Word Syndrome, one of the banes of an editor's existence. They don't need the grief.

Why reduce your chances of publication because of the near non-existent possibility of manuscript theft? Let the publisher register the finished, edited product at the appropriate time and on their dime.

The only good reason I can think of for registering one's own copyright is if you're self-publishing.

Sohia Rose said:

What if you're finished with a draft, then later, the work is edited, slightly re-written. Is it still under copyright? Or would one have to re-register? I've been following this thread; sorry for the "hit-and-run."

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It's likely a derivative work, and you need to re-register.

No one's going to steal your work, jedimaster107.

Despite your MIL claims, it really isn't worth the effort of even thinking about, J.

You're tallking hypothetical, right?

If you're really concerned about this, here's a cheap way to cover yourself:

Mail yourself a copy of your manuscript (or partial). This dates the envelope. Leave it sealed. In the event someone steals and publishes your story, you have a dated version to take to a lawyer. At that point you'd be suing for damages and lost wages, of which the lawyer would get a cut.

But really, this isn't something to obsess over. Focus on your writing.

Myrddin said:

You're tallking hypothetical, right?

If you're really concerned about this, here's a cheap way to cover yourself:

Mail yourself a copy of your manuscript (or partial). This dates the envelope. Leave it sealed. In the event someone steals and publishes your story, you have a dated version to take to a lawyer. At that point you'd be suing for damages and lost wages, of which the lawyer would get a cut.

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Dear sweet heavens, no. This does nothing, at all, but waste time, paper, and postage.

This is Poorman's Copyright, and It Doesn't Work. Read the FAQ.

Really folks, you're making the copyright FAQ feel unloved.

When my children were small, I used to obsess that because they were so obviously wonderful someone would surely want to kidnap them. I even wrote their names on their feet in magic marker when we went to Disneyworld. (I kid you not.) When I first started writing, I felt similarly about my writing 'babies.' But I'm a recovering obsessive today. I now know that both scenarios are rather unlikely--and while it's good to take proper precautions, it's not beneficial in any way to be so worried about it that you can't move forward in life. Follow the precautions in this thread, and you'll have nothing to worry about.

Pat~ said:

I even wrote their names on their feet in magic marker when we went to Disneyworld.

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That rocks.

And I'm amazed my mother didn't think of that.

If it comes down to contesting in court, there is always trails -- notes, computer files, etc. that can serve as proofs.

But like others said, you don't really need to register copyright to protect yourself. And it's rare that someone will steal an unpublished ms. -- because it's a no win situation. The odds against getting the ms. published is against the perp, and just in case the perp does get the ms. published, the potential for lawsuit is often not worth the trouble. The publishing world is unforgiving when it comes to intellectual property theft and plagiarism. Most writers would rather have his or her own stuff published.

Publishers prefer to register copyright on a ms. that is ready to go -- like Frank said, one that has been contracted, edited, and finished. Not the third draft of some unpublished ms.

Some people do plagiarized other published work -- that's not unheard of, but usually the people will get caught, unless no one reads the work at all.

The best way to keep yourself protected is to keep records and leave trails. A mention of your ms. here, a few notes there, tape recordings and temporary files in between, etc. that show the progress of your writing. That's the best proof of writership as opposed to just a physical stack of paper or a single computer file.

I don't make the slightest effort whatsoever to leave a trail.

Unless one deliberately goes about trying to erase all evidence of having slaved over one's novel - the trail will be there.

Why can't some Threads self-destruct?