How do you organise your novel? I've been attempting to write mine for 3 years now!!!

Hi,

Actually, I know exactly how you feel. I tried to write my "main series" when I was 9, quickly became frustrated by the fact that my vocab/writing/aka everything sucked, and just didn't bring the story across the way I wanted it to. I'm probably not a good example, because it's taken me over a decade to get my act together. I tried again at 14, and started in earnest at 17, actually finishing a novel I'd never planned on (a prelude novel to my fantasy series) my senior year in high school.

I wrote about half of the first novel in my series directly on the heels of the prelude novel, and then started jumping around like mad within all 3 books and lost myself pretty quickly.

Now I'm 24, and a few months ago I put my foot down and said "Damn it, LeAnn, stick to book one and finish the bastard!" And so I have. I ended up having to rewrite EVERYTHING I had written so long ago. The story is the same, but my writing has evolved, and when you stick a chapter from 6 years ago next to a chapter from last week, it's as if two different people wrote them. Now I'm over 160k into what will likely be a 180k book.

My suggestion is, just plow through it. Stick to one and put your nose to the grindstone, otherwise you'll end up like me. Don't end up like me. Write consistently and finish your project!

Best of Luck!

PS- Who cares if it's convoluted? That's what 1st drafts are for. Get it down and then break out the red pen

PPS- A good way to get to know your characters is to run them through different situations in your mind. Sometimes I just sit back and play a scene in my mind that has nothing to do with my story, but I stick my chars in it to get their reactions, because every character has a different personality. Once you get a nice relationship built up, you'll know how they'll work in the context of the story. That's my opinion at least.

Before I wrote my first novel I spent about eighteen months writing detailed notes and a lot of back-story. In hindsight this was way too long, and there was far too much unnecessary information that I never looked at again.

Learning from that experience, I now start off with a few basic notes about where and when the story will take place. I spend quite a lot of time working on the various characters basic goals – what they want to achieve within the time frame of the novel. It's the characters needs that dictate the plot, which I outline before I start writing. Once I'm happy that the plot stays true to the characters aspirations, and I can see several key scenes I'm keen to write, I have a go at a first draft.

grandmothers are notiously poor editors.

i'm an unorganized writer. i write the part of the story that excites me, then move on from there trying to follow a path that seems natural to me. i wind up with dozens of individual scenes which i put in the order i want them to be and essentially write the transitions. then i edit.

for you, maybe an outline would really help organize your story. a lot of writers have their characters written out on 4x6 cards for reference. i don't do much outlining except when i'm trying to figure out what i want to do next, but that not effective for everyone.

also, if you have a theme for the story that can often help direct where the story leads to. i also don't deliberately start off with a theme, though i recognize one when it pops up and i follow through with that. i know that i naturally wind up with roughly 120k words by the end, but without you knowing what your natural end result tends to be it's harder to plan things (i plan nothing ~ to this day my wife chastises me for expecting her to go to europe with me without a single reservation).

try skipping to a section you've got ideas for. worst case scenario is you trash it, but you're likely to discover things about the story that you hadn't thought about before, like certain characters or set-ups, then you know that you have to go back and build a character or set-up which might lead to another avenue. put the scenes in order, do transitions, and edit. it might still be a damn mess, but at least it'll be done.

oh, and research is wonderful for opening up storylines.

You need to get to know your characters. Remember, they are real people, not just folks who live on the pages. Treat them as such. I actually did an interview with my characters and I learned a lot. When you lie in bed, let the story go through your mind. See it as a movie. Let the characters tell the story instead of you. You go get a coke, while they write the story.

I usually use an outline, that helps me. Then when I have the first draft completed, I go over each page around 5 times and try to see my own problems. Also try to feel what the characters are feeling. Walk in their shoes. Again, this help me. Also put aside time in the day to write. I write from 8-10 in the evening. I keep my eye on the clock and at 8pm, I try to writer.

kim

I start by writing whatever scenes come to me. I don't write these in the same way I write the first draft of the MS. I write them in a way that's 'just for me', meaning no setting description (I know what my world and characters look like) and very brief action descriptions. The main thing I'll have is dialogue, some internal thoughts, and an occasional full action description sequence just because I feel like it. I don't worry about what order these scenes are written in, just so long as they all come from the same book or series. I don't worry about making them fit together or having every detail right. I keep writing this way until I have 10,000-20,000 words worth of scenes per a book (usually these are the most pivotal scenes, either high action or drama).

Then I write an outline, which gives a brief synopsis of every scene in the entire book. The pivotal scenes from my first document are strung together with less interesting scenes to make it into a sensical story.

Then I start writing the actual book. I don't necessarily work in order during the first draft (or even subsequent rewrites). I don't get confused because I have the outline, which I update whenever I decide to change anything.

By the time I finish that first document of pivotal scenes, I know my characters very well. I've never made any written character notes because I spend so much time writing and thinking about them before I start the actual book that I feel like they're real people who I'm close friends with (and you don't need to make notes about what your best friends like, you just know).

This method works for me. I've finished one book and am halfway through the second in the series.

I just started writing. A scene at a time. It's like the Chinese proverb, long journey start with one small step. Novel writing is the same. Long story start with one small scene. That scene leads to another. Then another. Some of the scenes fall nicely into place, others fit elsewhere, but I write them nonetheless and will deal with moving things around later. Pretty soon, before you realize it, scene after scene has produced a novel.

As far as the characters, they tell me their story as things go along.

Drop the perfectionism. That's all it is. You can't move forward unless what's behind you is perfect. Get over it. I had to, after tossing several novel starts.

You say you don't know your characters, and they haven't started their journey yet. Throw them in it! Kick their cabooses over the cliff and then...follow them. Accept that as a first-time novelist, your first 50 pages will be a getting-to-know-you period that may yield some gems, may yield some delete-worthy howlers, but don't delete them. Work on the story every day. You'll get to know the characters just like you get to know real people: by spending time in their life.

Some writers are outliners, with all different methods (note cards, bullet-point outlines, synopses); some are pantsers, who start with an idea and don't fully flesh it out until they're well into the first draft. You'll figure out what works for you, but until then, I suggest you try everything. I did. I prefer the seat-of-the-pants method.

Amen, Siddow. Don't worry about how 'good' it is. Just get the story out! Trust me: I have rewritten the first novel in my WIP seven times--and it still wasn't perfect. Who cares about split infiinitives or dangling participles in a first draft? Who cares if the resolution of a plot point isn't explained all the way? Those are issues you can resolve LATER. What you need to do NOW is get the story moving along and stop being so hard on yourself. Good luck!

Try this

HourglassMemory said:

I've been trying to write my book since I was 13, I'm 17 now. and it doesn't seem to go forward because!!!...

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http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6710

Uncle Jim's thread has a wealth of information you can harvest. You will spend hour reading through the posts, but each one will hopefully give you some insight into crafting the story. Do the exercises. They help!

I can offer what I do, but this may not work for you.

Characters: My characters are real people with birthdays, wives, husbands, and kids. They have jobs which they may love or hate. They spend time doing a hobby. They are engaged in activities that enrich their lives.

Plots: My plots are simply what happens to my characters and how they react to those situations. Each story has several plot lines running so that I can divulge the happenings of all my characters in an effective way. How I weave the stories together into a plot is based on how the characters relate to one another.

Location: each character picks his own location. If several pick the same location, I have a story building. If not, well, who knows.

POV: Point of View is a dictated by the story. How would the story feel in first person? What POV will make the story most believable at it's least believable moment? How can Third person limited be used to create suspense between the characters.

Outline: I like to have a brief outline, maybe just a chapter head outline that keeps me focused on where I am going. I am not married to the outline, but if I make changes, I go back and edit the outline to reflect the changes, especially where the change creates holes in the plots.

Theme: You got me. I have no clue. Personally, I believe most themes area accidents. They are with me. I write to entertain. Maybe that is my theme. If you figure this out. let me know.

One thing to remember, never lose sight of the fact that writing is a craft you learn. None of us here started out writing a perfect story. Hidden in most of our houses, underneath the dusty old pictures of Aunt Lillian, covered over by a stack of quilts, lies the first novel so horrible we never want anyone to read it. We keep it to remind us of the struggle to finish the first book.

just a thought. It is worth every penny you paid for it.

HourglassMemory said:

I've been trying to write my book since I was 13, I'm 17 now. and it doesn't seem to go forward because!!!...

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I started my first novel when I was about 17, maybe 16, and it was titanically awful. I don't know what ever became of it, or the Mac Classic I wrote it on, but I'm glad it's gone.

Now, at age 32, I think the best advice I can give you is this...

Live a little longer first.

That doesn't mean you can't write as you go, but it strikes me the questions you're asking; How do I get to know people? How do I organize my thoughts? have much more to do with being 17 than with the technicalities of writing. As I recall, being 17 rules and blows simultaneously, and is a pretty rocky shoal to try to sail a novel through.

I know what it's like to want to write about things you really can't relate to or don't know enough about. My advice to you would be, if you want to write now, write something that falls within the purview of the parts of life you've mastered, perhaps a children's book, or a short story about a high school freshman.

Writing's like life. Your experiences inform who you are and are the basis for what you can do. At 17, you may not have enough experience for a novel.

I didn't.

-Jason

Here is how I organize a novel:

Step 1: Write the beginning.
Step 2: Write the middle.
Step 3: Write the End.
Step 4: ???
Step 5: Profit?

I agree that you should just write your first draft and worry later. For instance, I know the first person YA novel I'm working on doesn't have a really distinctive voice. Once I'm done with the first draft, I am going to do some characterization things (an interview perhaps, some more back story), find a voice that belongs to the character, and rewrite. Of course, some of this could've been done beforehand, but if you feel like you're missing some organization midway through, just keep going!

Also, before I completed one novel, I started and stopped with so many ideas. Finally, I got an idea I liked and characters I loved, probably because it was semi-autobiographical. Yes, it probably wasn't marketable or good, but because I loved it so, I finished it. Once you've finished one, it doesn't seem so daunting, and you'll be better equipped to tackle one of your other ideas. Maybe you need to just keep looking for the idea that really inspires you and that you'll be able to go with.

Oh, and if you feel like you don't have that much life experience, I think you should write about an age group you know. You could write a young adult or middle grade novel, featuring people in high school or middle school. As a writer, most of my novels have centered on people the same age as me or a year or two older than me. I'm fourteen right now, but almost fifteen, and most of my main characters end up being fifteen or sixteen. For me, that's not too much of a stretch.

Good luck!

I am just stepping into this ring but feel similar to you. I am such an OCD anal person, I have to have all these things exactly right before I can move forward. So first I had an idea, I discussed and developed it into a plot with my husband. Then I wrote a real quickie two-page synopsis. Then, from that, I took my good ole pencil and notebook and wrote chapter one - beginning, middle, end ... and wrote one phrase to break it down (for example - Chapter Ten - Father dies B - father drives to work M - gets in accident E - dies in hospital - that's not a good example, but gives you a visual of what I am talking about).... and did that for each chapter to finish the book. Then I took that segment for chapter one, typed it into a fresh page in Word, and wrote a few pages on explaining how the beginning floats toward the end, save the file as Chapter One... then move onto the next. This is where I am now... I am not sure of my next move. In a separate file, I have a list of characters and wrote a little synopsis all about them. Some are a full page of their life and backstory, some are paragraphs. I didn't know much about them until I started writing about their individual lives, and now they are people that are and I almost feel like I have no control over them! Now, getting them in to this story has changed alot of where I thought it was going.

So... that is how I am doing it. You will find your own way. For me, I have to see it on actual paper - the outline, etc because I get so lost in the forest on the screen.

Good luck!

Several thoughts:
Don't be too hard on yourself, you're young. Even old fogies like me struggle. Just write and edit later. Too many people end up with one perfect chapter. What good is that?

I feel there are two types of writers: organic (go with the flow) and organized (diagrams, outlines, etc.) It sounds like you're an organic writer...at least for now. I am too.

Here's what works for me. When I start a book the first thing I do is create an Excel spreadsheet and put in the chapters that I imagine will get me from point A to Point Z. (I may not, of course, know where point Z is. I just put a line called The End.) I use descriptive names..."Trip to London", etc. This may sound like an outline, but it's NOT. Just a list that you can knock out in 15 minutes.

I give myself the latitude to write any chapter that I want to on any given day. Some days I wake up intending to write about one character, but while I'm eating breakfast another character starts talking to me and takes over the day.

Note: I know my characters are "alive" when I hear them talking (inflections, mannerisms and all) in my head.

When I realize that there needs to be a chapter between #11 and #12, I insert a line and re-number. If chapter 15 works better after chapter 20, I cut and paste and re-number.

I find that my chapters start in my head as dialog...usually a punchy line or snappy reply. If you have trouble building the scene to the point of dialog, ignore it and start with the dialog.

I usually have many chapters in various stages of completion. Some are a few paragraphs of dialog, others nearly done. Each chapter is a separate Word file. When I open it, I reread and polish - just a little - don't want to spend the whole day rewriting. That gets me in the mood to extend what I have.

I mark my spreadsheet for completed and uncompleted chapters. If I write in parallel chapters, I color code the chapter names according to principal character.

My wife is also a writer. She fought against my spreadsheet for months and finally realized her novel was out of control. Putting it in a form where she could see what was happening in what order quickly gave her a handle on things.

Good Luck

Keep in mind that the first book or series you start writing may not be the one you finish. When you have a story clearly in mind--beginning, middle and end--write and keep writing 'til it is finished.

My God, Hourglass, you have a lifetime ahead of you, and writing stuff that others want to read is a 'craft' that can take years to master.

If you feel like writing, write.

If you don't, go play football or go out with a girl or boyfriend or drink lemonade or learn how to high-wire walk or whatever flips your switch - and wait till you do feel like writing.

Forcing it, or looking for some magic lamp of writing, will achieve nothing at all. Just write when you feel like writing and keep going till you write 'the end' and see what happens. It can be fun.

Good luck.

Seems to me you're stuck revising something that isn't finished yet.
Finish your first draft and don't allow yourself to change something before you've finished it.

As for the genre (fantasy, SF, anything). Worry about it when you've finished the story. It's not important yet.

At 17 there are far better things to do than beat yourself up about writing. Give it space - like a year. Get someone honest to read what you've written. Is it even vaguely on the money? My advice: get a life first, because when you get really good your writing could take over.

A terrific website for just about anything that ails a book is Holly Lisle's site.

www.hollylisle.com

I think she started in romance...then fantasy...and she is writing suspense novels now, too.

I must have 100 books on writing (seriously, it's a sickness) and while I wouldn't part with most of them, it takes time to read all that plus commit to the ideas of different writers. The nice thing about Holly's website is that it tackles pretty much every question you have succinctly, but you can sink your teeth into it. Go to the "writers" part of the site.

Oh, and bring like Twinkies or something...and not on your favorite TV night. There is so much there.

Thrill

I have notebook after notebook full of my writings ever since I was a kid. Even now with this new book I am writing not long ago I had to really organize my story because all my ideas were scattered in over ten notebooks..sheesh! It's just when you get a real good idea, you have to write it somewhere or you will forget. That's me....it's handy to keep paper and pen with you at all times.

Organization is highly overrated. You don't need to get organized. Your story needs a direction.

One of your characters should want something. There should be powerful obstacles toward his/her getting what she wants. She comes up with a foolproof plan, but when she puts it into action, it fails. All appears to be lost, until she figures out, at the last possible moment, a way to reverse her fortune.

Or, as Isaac Asimov said, "Someone gets in trouble, then gets out of it. People love that story, they never get tired of it."

Seriously, you need some general idea of what your characters want to accomplish -- something they want to do (assassinate the president, hold a bake sale, make love to Margaret Thatcher), someplace they want to go, wahtever -- and let the journey take you there.

It sounds to me like you're coming up with fun stuff for your characters to do, but no overarching goal for them. If that's the case, then I'd guess people enjoy it just because you're able to depict their activities in engaging ways. This is a tremendous asset, but it rarely produces a saleable book. (A notable exception: To Kill A Mockingbird, which was originally returned to Harper Lee with a letter explaining that it wasn't a novel, it was a collection of short stories with hardly anything to link them together. Lee worked on the book with this editor and finally produced TKAM, but in reality, it's still a collection of only vaguely related short stories.)

Anyway, if you come up with a goal for your protagonists, I'm sure your story will find its own way to that goal.

Personally, I make zillions of idea notes when I'm trying to develop a plot, but once I know where the plot wants to go, I just write the story and never even look at my zillion notes. And I know other novelists who say the same thing.

I've also written novels in which I knew what I wanted to happen at the ending (in the most general terms), but couldn't figure out how it could happen. In these cases, writing the book is like reading a suspense/thriller, because I'm wondering how it will end as if it's by someone else. Despite sometimes feeling like I won't be able to come up with a good idea, I always manage to in the end.

In the novel I just finished, I was stopped for around two months, trying to figure out how one character could tell another "the secret," while not revealing "the secret" to another character who could hear everything that was said! I finally did it, but for a long time I was afraid I couldn't make it work.

In my experience, you can always make it work if you (a) bust your brains, and (2) don't give up and settle for a crappy ending that isn't what you'd hoped for.

"You can't wait for inspiration -- you have to go after it with a club." -- Jack London

Shadow_Ferret said:

It's like the Chinese proverb, long journey start with one small step.

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Uh, not trying to be politically correct here, but the quote is "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step."

I wanted to include the original author, so I Googled it, and came up with three web sites, one attributing it to Confucius, one to Lao-Tzu, and one to Chairman Mao.

No website attributed it to Charlie Chan.

I love how in some point of your story, the story writes itself.