Fantasy Paradigms

Indeed. So write it. Use those different paradigms.

But beside that, I think if you look hard enough you will see that most of the mythos from various cultures can be broken down into much more basic archetypes, many of which transcend both time and distance to reappear again and again in various myths, fairytales and folktales from across the globe. A rose, or syren, by any other name...

As far as modern fantasy novels, I would challenge that it owes as much to its own incestuousness as it does the "old" Western European myths.

But all of that is moot. If you think there is a mythos out there which needs to be exploited, do it. Write it and write it well and it will find an audience. At least that's what Miss Snark told me before she abandoned us all to the wolves.

Sounds interesting.
I'd love to read fantasy based on other cultures - I'd even love to write some, but my knowledge is pretty sketchy outside the Western European myths.
I was delighted when I first came across Barry Hughart's Bridge of Birds, set in Ancient China, for instance, but there's not a lot else where that came from.

"Are there muggles and house elves? If not, I ain't readin' it"
-- signed,
Every child in America.

Spot on about the Muggles. However, if you take a look at just about everyone's submission guidelines you will almost without exception find this line:

'We want fresh and original stories, preferably from lands outside the stereotypical "medieval European" setting.'

A few years ago there seemed to be a rush of fantasy books set in other places. Specifically, The Iron Fortress (Russia) and The Prince of Ayodha (India). [I'm totally guessing on those titles, the first book had that snow owl on the cover and was written by Somebody Ash]

I am trying to use an untapped well for the basis of my story. Not going to say much, since someone may borrow it, though I will throw another possibility into the mix; What if someone decided to try using Arabian or Persian lore in their stories? Just an idea, though you can take stuff from the 1001 Arabian Nights and books like that. Would be interesting to see that turned into somewhat of a novel/series. Paulo Coelho's Alchemist came close, but really didn't divulge to deep into it.

Nandu,

I think it is a wonderful idea to use myths, creatures or settings from different cultures in your stories. I enjoy reading myths and stories from countries other than my own so it would be far more interesting to me.

I have written a few short stories that have some Japanese elements in them, but I'm nervous about them since I am not Japanese and my experience with the culture is limited. I'm borrowing certain things, but not necessarily being faithful to the original image. That might bother people who recognize the roots.

Besides borrowing or basing stories on other cultures folklore I also think it's interesting to study other cultures because it helps you set up a more realistic fanatasy one. Sometimes I feel like some of my stories have been too similar to my own culture - they don't feel alien enough to me, because my characters are too close to my own cultural standards. I'm trying to understand how they would think and I think the more you can see how other cultures interpret things differently the easier it is to find that other mindset. I don't really know how to express what I'm trying to say there so I'll come back to it later.

nandu said:

Whenever I read fantasy, I can't help feeling that the writers restrict the field very much: it's mostly modelled on European folklore. Maybe because most of them come from Anglo-Saxon backgrounds.

There are a million worlds out there.

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My current novel that being submitted to agents is set in a world in which ALL mythological beliefs co-exist. Although this current novel only uses Norse, Greek, and some Native American myths, I also mentions Indian (as in India) and other myths.

In the WIP, which is the next in the series, I'm starting with some Icelandic myths, particularly the huldufolk and the 4 Guardians, but again plan on adding other myths from other countries as the storyline progresses.

But the reason as I see it, we, as Americans and Europeans, are raised on Norse, Greek, and Roman mythology so much that we feel comfortable with them. We feel we can write about them with authority. Many of us have never, or hardly ever, been exposed to Middle Eastern, or Eastern myths. Thus, we don't want to come off as uninformed when we do write about them.

Although simple research can make experts of us all.

I think there are fantasies using other myths lurking around. I see Australian and NZ stuff occassionally although I think it could be used more.

I would love to see other cultures breaking into the fantasy world, especially urban fantasy. I would try to write the stuff myself, but I'm not comfortable enough with other myths and legends outside of the normal Euro stuff to spin a good tale.

And it's the "different" and "alien" aspect of these other cultures that would make me pick up the book, not reject it. Go for it, nandu!

nandu said:

Whenever I read fantasy, I can't help feeling that the writers restrict the field very much: it's mostly modelled on European folklore. Maybe because most of them come from Anglo-Saxon backgrounds.

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You are correct. Also, the influence of Tolkien pervades so much of what passes as fantasy fiction today that its European roots seem to be everywhere.

I'd very much like to see influences from other world cultures inform and re-energize the fantasy genre, which, from what I see on bookstore shelves these days, has become a bit tired and stultified.

caw

One advantage of Tolkeinesque work is that is separate from active beliefs. When you work with myths people still follow as beliefs you have to be more careful.

Hi!
Popping in briefly from Clarion.

nandu said:

I was extremely doubtful of getting a story published in any magazine in the Western world as my background was entirely different.

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Strange Horizons actively likes Indian subcontinental stuff. So does Polyphony, though they don't seem to be taking submissions at the moment.

One problem is how much to explain. Elves, Goblins, Pixies etc. are familiar to anyone in the world who reads fantasy literature. By the Curriculum Vitae of my creepies would have to be presented in full: otherwise I feel any Western audience would be totally lost.

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Look up Mary Anne Mohanraj and Vandana Singh, Nandu. If I were you I'd look through some of their fiction. Both for a role model and for a good idea of how much to explain. Oh and, a pretty good idea of how much you can get away with.

Lloyd Alexander's the Iron Ring and Kara Dalkey's Blood of the Goddess trilogy (Goa, Bijapur, Bhagavati) are pretty damngood references too. Also fun books.

dclary said:

"Are there muggles and house elves? If not, I ain't readin' it"
-- signed,
Every child in America.

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Nonsense. Tamora Pierce sells incredibly well. And she's hardly the only one. I bring up Tamora Pierce in particular because she plays around with different cultures.

Sassee said:

I would love to see other cultures breaking into the fantasy world, especially urban fantasy. I would try to write the stuff myself, but I'm not comfortable enough with other myths and legends outside of the normal Euro stuff to spin a good tale.

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Pick up some books of world folklore, Sassee, they're fun
You may not be comfortable enough to write them now, but if you read bits and pieces for five years, you will be.

I've got to add, my best response from pro markets so far is for an Indian urban fantasy with Nagas. Not just because it's alien, I think, but also because readers can tell this hits a deep chord with me.

We write differently when we write about things that are close to our hearts.

I don't know if I would be comfortable writing urban fantasy with the critters, and even less one that happens in a country, of a culture foreign to me, and if I read one that happens, say, in India I'd hope for a writer who does know the place not only from having read about it but also from having spent at least some time there. But when it comes to a made up fantasy land I am happy enough to stick in creatures and other things found in books about the folklore of foreign countries. I think it's more excusable to get them wrong, or to tweak them into something strange, then.

One reason that non-western folklore gets used so little might be that so many fantasy writers are western, and they may be somewhat scared of using something that doesn't come from their own heritage. I know it does scare me. Too easy to create something that would seem wrong to the people from whose folklore it was taken and perhaps, then, you'd get all kinds of complaints about how what you did was wrong, that you should either have done better research or you shouldn't have done it at all because the folklore wasn't yours to use as it wasn't from your own heritage. That you shouldn't use something you don't understand very thoroughly. So perhaps it is up to the people who are members of those non-western cultures to write their heritage into the fantasy genre.

But then there is of course the fact that actually most of the western fantasy tropes tend to be quite far removed from what you find in western European folklore.

When it comes to things I like to read, yes, I'd find urban fantasy that happens somewhere else than North America more than welcome (hey, there isn't that much that happens in Europe, either, at least if you leave out Britain). And any other type of fantasy using something else than the western European lore too. The only requirements for me are an accessible main character and good writing.

Well, one could still have their setting in America, but use other non-western creatures to fill the supernatural part. Hell, even pretend something came over from India or China or <insert other country here> and started populating in America, for better or for worse (worse is generally more interesting hehe).

I think you can use fantasy archetypes and put a twist on them to make them different. My series has Elves (no dwarves or muggles, however) but the world is based on Greco-Roman mythology with some hints of Egyptian and Summerian as well. There is a lot to be said for the Tolkien-based worlds and peoples--they provide a familiar base for the fantasy fan. DoI have any Tolkien-type Elves in Asphodel? You betcha!

But I kill them. It's the smartalec Elves who survive. *grin* My blog ain't called Elf-Killing and other Hobbies for nothin'!

regardless of the source material for your personal inspiration, a vastly more important question is the result.

write it good enough, and it won't matter if you use martian mythology or the mythos of one tiny isolated island in the pacific, or have a king elf named tolkein handing out rings.

i have a question that is related to the subject:

who was the first author in fantasy to have a non-white hero/heroine?

was it ursula k. leguinn?

Sassee said:

Well, one could still have their setting in America, but use other non-western creatures to fill the supernatural part. Hell, even pretend something came over from India or China or <insert other country here> and started populating in America, for better or for worse (worse is generally more interesting hehe).

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I think you'll find Neil Gaiman's already done that with American Gods. :-D

The Weavers of Saramir is Japanese influenced, and The Years of Rice and Salt Chinese. I can't remember who wrote either of those at the moment though.

Other cultures' myths wouldn't put me off, any more than completely made up ones would.

badducky said:

who was the first author in fantasy to have a non-white hero/heroine?

was it ursula k. leguinn?

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I think it depends on how you define fantasy, but Earthsea is certainly one canonical "first non-white fantasy".

But... did Kipling write fantasy? What's Jungle Book?

xanthalanari said:

I think you'll find Neil Gaiman's already done that with American Gods. :-D

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Well yes, but that doesn't mean it's Done

I'd like to point out that Terri Windling wrote Wood Wife many years before American Gods, and it's a distinctly indigenous-magic urban fantasy set mostly in Arizona. So yeah, a different thing, but very cool too.

In the general "other cultures" mix, has anyone read Leah Cutter's Paper Mage and sequels? I haven't yet but I've heard good things.