Harry Potter is a WHAT???? SPOILER ALERT

Zonk · Jul 21, 2007

Now that the book is out:

It seems that Harry Potter, product of that whipping post of the so-called 'Religious Right' J.K. Rowling, is a CHRISTIAN ALLEGORY in the Lewis vein, and that Rowling refrained from discussing her Christianity "...because if I talk too freely about that, I think the intelligent reader, whether 10 or 60, will be able to guess what's coming in the books." (Interview with Max Wyman, Oct 26, 2000, printed in the vancouver Sun).

She said that in October of 2000, before Book 5 came out, before anybody besides her knew what a Horcrux was. Understand what she is saying: if we knew what she believes, we would be able to predict the storyline.

An excellent article on this may be found here:

Is Harry Potter the Son of God?

Now if this doesn't set the cat amongst the pigeons..

I predict that soon the 'Irreligious Left' will start savaging the series now, much as the 'Religious Right' did before...

But that's not the point of my thread; go to TIO if you want to argue that...

I am much more interested right now in whether or not this changes your opinion, (either way) about the series as a work of craft: Tolkien disliked allegory, he said, while his good friend Lewis made a career of it.

How creative is allegory? Is it harder to fashion a story de novo, or to come up with a way of retelling an old story, a way so fresh, in fact, that your intention may not be seen untill the very end?

Sage · Jul 21, 2007

Harry Potter is made of chocolate? What?

MMcC · Jul 21, 2007

Jo Rowling says vague crap all the time and almost always hints that she's doing it to avoid giving stuff away. This nearly always proves to have been misleading.

There is absolutely not a Christ allegory in these novels, but there is, and always has been, a strong sense of the classical bildingsroman hero.

Duh.

Dancre · Jul 21, 2007

I just want to know if Harry dies in the end. At least that's what I've heard. I hope not. I'm not understanding why she only wrote 7 books instead of more? Did she get bored with the series?

veinglory · Jul 21, 2007

It was planned from the beginningas a 7 book series. Kudos to her for sticking with that plan rather than spinning it out like a TV series until the kids lose interest.

Zonk · Jul 21, 2007

Sage said:
Harry Potter is made of chocolate? What?

So what about the question I asked?

MMcC said:
Jo Rowling says vague crap all the time and almost always hints that she's doing it to avoid giving stuff away. This nearly always proves to have been misleading.

There is absolutely not a Christ allegory in these novels, but there is, and always has been, a strong sense of the classical bildingsroman hero.

Think you're wrong here, but what did you think of my question?

Dancre said:
I just want to know if Harry dies in the end. At least that's what I've heard. I hope not. I'm not understanding why she only wrote 7 books instead of more? Did she get bored with the series?

Yes. And no. She finished the series because that's where the story she was telling ends.
What did you think of my question?

Sage · Jul 21, 2007

Zonk said:
What did you think of my question?

First question I see is "Harry Potter is a WHAT????" Then there's a lot of stuff about comparing HP to Jesus. Could be why a more philosophical book writing question at the end got ignored over the rest of the post....

("[Character] is made of chocolate" is a spoiler joke from Serenity/Firefly. I was trying to be cute (& clearly failing

))

I'll take a stab at it though. I'm not Christian, don't like being preached to, but I think a well done allegory (whether Christian or not) is really cool. Doesn't mean I'll always get it, but when I do, it's interesting.

That said, I don't think HP actually is a Christian allegory.

willietheshakes · Jul 21, 2007

Having just finished the Deathly Hallows, I feel I can weigh in (and I'll be spoiler-free):

The only way in which I see these books as being Christian allegory are the ways in which they conform to the general schema of the Hero's Journey (cf. Joseph Campbell et al.) The Christian mythos is but one of the stories that follows this general pattern, as does Potter.

LisaHy · Jul 21, 2007

Allegory or inspiration? As writers, shouldn't we all be looking to the wider world and all its intricacies for inspiration? Whether its an event or person or society or religion? Tolkien always said LotRs wasn't an allegory but you can't deny what inspired it.

And in the end, does it matter? I mean, really. Surely all it comes down to is 'Did you enjoy the book?' If the answer is yes, then the author has done something right. If the answer is no, so be it.

I read the article in the link. Very intriguing, but in the end pointless, really. You could disect just about any book out there in the same way. There are alwasy 'connections' if you look long and hard enough.

I read Harry Potter because I liked the characters (whatever else I could say about her writing, I very heartily appreciated Rowling's ability to creat such vivid and varied personalities) and was interested in seeing how it all ended. I've read the last book, I know all the answers to my questions (all things I thought would happen did, yay!) and I'm satisfied. End of story.

Cheers, Lisa.

enchantedfire5 · Jul 21, 2007

I'm a Catholic Christian, and I LOVE fantasy, so does another one of my dear friend's whose a Protestant. I'm so sick of certain Christian fanatics attacking magical books like HP (even though I don't really like HP) Dungeon and Dragons, and even friggen old fashion cartoons like He-Man. It's fantasy, NOT reality! There's good morals in them, and the "sorcery" come from good beings, not evil beings all the time.

reenkam · Jul 21, 2007

willietheshakes said:
Having just finished the Deathly Hallows, I feel I can weigh in (and I'll be spoiler-free):

The only way in which I see these books as being Christian allegory are the ways in which they conform to the general schema of the Hero's Journey (cf. Joseph Campbell et al.) The Christian mythos is but one of the stories that follows this general pattern, as does Potter.

I second this. It's a classic Hero's Journey, pretty much, like tons of stories before and like tons of stories will be. The interest comes with the characters and how the journey progresses.

mscelina · Jul 21, 2007

7 books=7 years of education at Hogwarts. She's also recently said that she'll "never say never" about writing another Potter book, but I'd be willing to bet that there's nowhere else to go.

As far as Christian allegory...well, boy--that's easy to peg on anything. I see where the reference is coming from but I seriously doubt that was her motivation. I got HP7 at midnight and was finished rading it by 4 a.m. this morning. She did what she had to do to tie up loose plotlines and the Joseph Campbell reference (hero's journey) is quite apt. However, IMHO it's nowhere near the same type of Christian allegory as Lewis had. It an be "stuck into" that mould, but then again so could Gone With The Wind or Of Mice and Men if you tried hard enough. I thought the final book was, in the long run, a very apt and secular wrap up of the series.

Heckuva lot of fun too.

rwam · Jul 22, 2007

Then again, how genius would it be from a marketing and sales standpoint to come out after all's said and done and say, "Yeah, it's a Christian allegory". That'd be so friggin' hilarious to see HP become the hottest thing to all the Left Behind folks who were ready to burn JK at the stake and in six months all 7 books are #1-7 on CBA's bestseller list. I think if I saw that, I could die a happy and fulfilled man.

Then again, the people that have been branding JK as a wiccan aren't usually the type to come out and admit they may have been wrong about something.

Calla Lily · Jul 22, 2007

It arrived in the mail at 2:30 and I finished it at 6. I thought she wrapped it up well and tied off all the loose ends...maybe. Anyone else think the last line left the door open a teensy-weensy crack for another book? I mean , after the whole post-death chapter, and that wizard portraits talk and reason and continue on etc...

Christian allegory? Maybe. If you apply hindsight to all 7 books, I think it's possible, but it'd be stretching it. The Hero's Journey? Definitely. But on the surface, Jesus' life fits neatly into the Hero's Journey mold too. (But that's a whole 'nother discussion, and not a literary one.)

I never really liked Harry, and I'm glad he didn't whine his way through 7. I live with a hormonally raging teenager--I don't need to read about one! :tongue

I am VERY glad Ron got the spotlight in this one! Sad about Fred. He and George were my favorite characters.

Twizzle · Jul 22, 2007

callalily61 said:
Anyone else think the last line left the door open a teensy-weensy crack for another book?

I am VERY glad Ron got the spotlight in this one! Sad about Fred. He and George were my favorite characters.

She has said no more books on Harry Potter. After finishing it, I thought yep, no more books on Harry Potter. But the epilogue...yes. She'll write more books. HP just won't be the MC.

maestrowork · Jul 22, 2007

It has more parallel to Star Wars than Christ, but some people may want to call Luke a Christ figure, too. It's definitely a hero's journey in the same vein as SW or LotR -- and guess what? Christ's story is a hero's journey, too. No wonder people would think it's an allegory.

There are, of course, similarities, especially dealing with death, redemption, followers, resurrection, etc.

Hillgate · Jul 22, 2007

When Hermione's belly starts to swell, we'll know...

maestrowork · Jul 22, 2007

There's actually a bit of an icky factor that these kids are having sex... even though we know that happened after they became adults. Still, it's like thinking about your teenage sons or daughters having sex with their best friends. Ick.

reenkam · Jul 22, 2007

maestrowork said:
There's actually a bit of an icky factor that these kids are having sex... even though we know that happened after they became adults. Still, it's like thinking about your teenage sons or daughters having sex with their best friends. Ick.

Heh heh, you'd be surprised.........

Twizzle said:
Hedwig. I'm so sad over Hedwig.

But anyway, she has said no more books on Harry Potter. After finishing it, I thought yep, no more books on Harry Potter. But the boy...yes. She'll write more books. HP just won't be the MC.

What would they be about, though? I mean, with voldemort gone, who's the bad guy? and which would she choose as the main character? james? albus? lilly? I feel like sequels would sell amazingly (obviously) but would never be, well...real. If that makes sense.

maestrowork · Jul 22, 2007

There will be a TV sitcom that will run for 11 seasons. "The Hogwarts Family." Just you wait.

Alexandra Little · Jul 22, 2007

Oh dear goodness that "19 years later" part--I know with my friend is going to have a hissy fit when she finally finishes the book.

Christine N. · Jul 22, 2007

I bawled over Dobby. Like a baby.
Hedwig was a shock, and very sad.

Snape - knew it was coming. Also knew he was in love with Lily and that's why he left Voldemort.
Fred...wasn't sure which Weasley was going to buy it, thought for sure it was going to be one of the parents. Not unexpected, especially after George lost the ear.
Lupin AND Tonks...didn't expect both. But with Wormtail gone, she had to kill him off - Moony, Wormtail, Padfoot and Prongs are no more.

Christian allegory??? Sorry, don't see it.

Alexandra Little · Jul 22, 2007

I see Harry's death/rebirth as allegory

I liked the way Snape was tied up, and finally getting his whole story. I am now in love with him.

I also like the way the Malfoys went, and how Dumbledore wasn't so perfect.

willietheshakes · Jul 22, 2007

Alexandra Little said:
I see Harry's death/rebirth as allegory

Me too. That myth of Osiris, with the seasonal death and rebirth, bringing life and bounty to his people - never gets old.

Christine N. · Jul 22, 2007

At least Harry's body wasn't torn into thirteen pieces...

Harry Potter is a WHAT???? ***SPOILER ALERT***

Our Lady of Parentheticals

Just have fun.

volitare nequeo

Our Lady of Parentheticals

Gentleman. Scholar. Bastard.

It's probably a tumour

aka cupcake

Teh doommobile, drivin' rite by you

On hiatus

Cluck that.

Fear the Death Ray

On location

Fear the Death Ray

aka cupcake

Fear the Death Ray

What a desolation.

haz a shiny new book cover

What a desolation.

Gentleman. Scholar. Bastard.

haz a shiny new book cover

Harry Potter is a WHAT???? SPOILER ALERT