Can someone please explain 'formula writing' to me?? Please??

reigningcatsndogs · Jul 19, 2007

I am sorry for having to ask this, as I am sure somewhere in the unbelievably vast space of AW this is covered (and if it is, hopefully soneome will move this to the appropriate place, because I haven't found it yet). When people refer to 'formula writing', what the hell do they mean? Every book my other half picks up he throws back down, screaming that he is so sick of formula writing and the fact that every writer does it now. It doesn't matter what book it is, he has the same complaint. This is his basis (excuse) for refusing to read anything I have written. I have a few sibs who have made the same comment. I assume that every book has a plot involving a problem and perhaps a resolution, some character building, chapters..... I keep imagining a fill-in-the-blank form on a computer and Vince Flynn just giving one-word answers, and voila! a new book. Can someone please tell me what formula writing is so I won't do it? Or maybe its something I should be doing? It's all so confusing -- I just want to frigging write!!!!

JasonChirevas · Jul 19, 2007

To me, formula means just that; novels following a basic, well-worn plot, rife with the trappings of the genre, that don't stray from what's known to work. There are good formula books and bad formula books. As you've no doubt read time and again, the good ones are most often those that take the tried and true and put a new or unexpected spin on it, however slight.

Now that that's out of the way, I'm much more concerned with this...

reigningcatsndogs said:
Every book my other half picks up he throws back down, screaming that he is so sick of formula writing and the fact that every writer does it now. It doesn't matter what book it is, he has the same complaint. This is his basis (excuse) for refusing to read anything I have written.

What's up with that?

-Jason

reigningcatsndogs · Jul 19, 2007

I do keep writing. I just sometimes get tired of the comment, but have no response because I don't know what the hell its supposed to mean. I just slap on the headphones and start to type again. Lately, though, I get to hear so much more about the 'politics' of books and publishing and how hopeless and pointless the whole process is. The formula thing keeps coming up and I was sure I had missed something. Maybe I didn't, cause to me if you write a murder mystery, someone dies and someone tries to solve the mystery -- that's not formula to me, but rather genre.

Carmy · Jul 19, 2007

My idea of formula writing is basically the same as Jason's. It used to appear regularly in romances and mysteries -- same plot, different character names and setting. Understand I'm not putting down romance and mystery writers, but those are the two genres where I've come across the same old boring stories, the ones where you begin to wonder if you've read the book before.

reigningcatsndogs · Jul 19, 2007

JasonChirevas said:
What's up with that?

-Jason

I should correct this. A few weeks ago, when he had been on my back about 'wasting' so much time, I waited till he was about to walk into a management meeting where he was to be giving a presentation, and then I emailed him on his blackberry. It was a love scene I had just written. He opened it and read it because he didn't know what I was emailing him about.

He had to sit for the entire presentation!!
Formula THAT!!!!

He feels that my time would be much better spent working. I don't work outside the house, because I homeschool my two kids, and because we have an acreage that is a full-time job in itself, and he has never had an issue about that, but for some reason, the writing thing is really a problem for him.

JasonChirevas · Jul 19, 2007

reigningcatsndogs said:
I should correct this. A few weeks ago, when he had been on my back about 'wasting' so much time, I waited till he was about to walk into a management meeting where he was to be giving a presentation, and then I emailed him on his blackberry. It was a love scene I had just written. He opened it and read it because he didn't know what I was emailing him about. He had to sit for the entire presentation!!
Formula THAT!!!!

He feels that my time would be much better spent working. I don't work outside the house, because I homeschool my two kids, and because we have an acreage that is a full-time job in itself, and he has never had an issue about that, but for some reason, the writing thing is really a problem for him.

Wow. I think my best tact would be to say no comment.

No comment.

-Jason

Carmy · Jul 19, 2007

Woo-hoo! Way to go RC'nD.

David I · Jul 19, 2007

I think you are looking at a formula piece when the reader knows exactly what will happen next and roughly how.

Don't confuse this, however, with "obligatory" scenes. Just because the hero finally confronts the villain, that doesn't make it "formula". Just because the lovers meet one another but theree is an obstacle in theri way, that doesn't make it formula. The reader will feel cheated if obligatory scenes are left out. The trick is to deliver the same goods, but deliver them in an unexpected way.

But you shouldn't make everything you do unexpected--these's nothing more boring that watching a writer "straining after a false and adventitious novelty."

It's balancing act--like everything else about this process.

Your husband sound like...well, I try to support the woman I love in doing what she cares about, and I expect the same from her.

Good luck on all fronts!

blacbird · Jul 19, 2007

Paint-by-number.

Most strictly seen from certain Romance genre and sub-genre publishers,

caw

Azraelsbane · Jul 19, 2007

Ha! Love the love scene emailed to the husband thing. That's priceless! I wouldn't worry about the formula writing thing. As long as your writing has a new and interesting spin, that's the ticket.

As for spouses refusing to read writing, I feel ya. My husband used to dodge me by any means necessary, mostly because I write fantasy and he usually despises it. Finally I sat him down and lorded over him while he read the prologue to my current WIP. Luckily, since then he's been hooked. He's constantly asking me for new chapters and whining when I'm not writing fast enough. Not to mention his complaining that my antagonist isn't in every blasted chapter (he really loves my bad guy). Somehow I almost miss the days when he wasn't reading

veinglory · Jul 19, 2007

Certain romance writers once specifies things so tightly that characters had to meet and undergo specified events within certain page numbers. Highly predictable but good for comfort reading.

Simon Woodhouse · Jul 19, 2007

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't a lot of romance publishes want their books to follow the tried and tested formula? In which case, writing a 'formula book' would actually be a good thing.

Of course, I might have that all wrong.

reigningcatsndogs · Jul 19, 2007

I guess I like to think that most authors bring something new to the table. Some genre's, just by their nature, will have a common plot thread -- hence the genre. I keep telling myself that its the words and the ideas and the situations that make the difference. Perhaps it's the predictable aspect that he considers formula? I seriously was thinking though, that they must have done some news magazine program on 'Tom Clancy/Robert Ludlum/Vince Flynn (insert any author's name in here) and formula writing' and that was where he came up with the term. Could just be he's talking out his a**. Thanks for the input, guys!!!

reigningcatsndogs · Jul 19, 2007

veinglory said:
Certain romance writers once specifies things so tightly that characters had to meet and undergo specified events within certain page numbers. Highly predictable but good for comfort reading.

Really??? Wow, I'm not so sure I could do that, but I guess it could be one heck of a challenge to try to write that tightly. Maybe that's what he's thinking?

mscelina · Jul 19, 2007

A good example of a formula writer is Victoria Holt. If you pick up any of her books (and I have them all...in hardback...and still read them) you'll notice that her plots are invariably similar. The governess/artist/unwanted ward goes off to the castle/manor of a mysterious/sinister/devilishly charismatic hero and falls in love despite her best interests/said hero's obsessed partner/general death, destruction, and mayhem. Then they live happily ever after.

It's not bad writing; it's just easy. Fans of a formula writer know exactly what to expect. Keep in mind that Holt held (and may still hold) the Guinness Book record for books published ( several pseudonyms--Jean Plaidy/Phillippa Carr/Eleanor Burford/Elbur Ford et cetera et cetera but Victoria Holt is the best-known and the most salesworthy with something like 60 million books sold under that psuedonym alone) with around 200 different titles. If you're writing formula, it's very easy to crank out volume.

JoNightshade · Jul 19, 2007

I used to work at a book store. Some elderly ladies would come in and pull a list out of their purse before going to the shelves. This list would be a list of author's names and the titles they had already read. Why did these women keep such lists? Because just by looking at the book's title, reading the back of the book, and some of the inside, THEY COULD NOT TELL if they had read it before.

THAT is how I define formula writing. Ugh.

As for your husband... mine doesn't read my work on a regular basis and I don't want him to (mainly because he's TOTALLY not my audience and he would skew my perspective). I want him to support me, which he entirely does. He believes in my talent and my passion and that's all he needs to be right behind me. If your husband feels like your writing is taking away from your care of your children, the property, or even your attention to him, he may feel a bit threatened (in fact maybe he feels threatened by your hot love scenes!

). You might want to consider just telling him it's something you want to pursue for fun in your free time, just like he might like to read or play sports or whatever in his free time. And reassure him that he's still your #1 man. You'd be surprised what guys get jealous of sometimes.

*

*That said, I know next to nothing about your relationship so take all advice with several grains of salt.

seun · Jul 20, 2007

Formula writing = Dan Brown.

Azraelsbane · Jul 20, 2007

seun said:
Formula writing = Dan Brown.

Really? I didn't get that, but maybe I just didn't read enough of his work. I read DaVinci Code and Angels and Demons (which I liked better). However, I couldn't get through the first two chapters of Digital Fortress or Deception Point. Snore-a-thon, imo.

san_remo_ave · Jul 20, 2007

Formula writing is like following a recipe. Imagine baking Toll House cookies and deciding on the next batch you're going to add walnuts. Then the next batch you'll switch the chocolate chips to dark chocolate. Then the next you use white chocolate and macadamia nuts. Still the same basic cookie dough, you've just changed a couple of ingredients.

Formula writing has been used widely in romance writing (Dame Barbara Cartland comes to mind, a very proficient and popular old-school Harlequin writer). Some of the old school mysteries were like that too --I'm thinking The Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew mysteries.

Another that comes to mind: TV cartoons (from my childhood, anyway --no idea about today's cartoons other than South Park or the Simpsons). An old favorite was Scooby Doo, Where Are you? (from the 70's). Every episode was the same basic formula: they're traveling (somewhere) in the Mystery Machine and have to stop along the way and solve some "mystery". Fred, Daphne and Velma are determined to get to the bottom of things; Shaggy and Scooby are frightened and resistant. By the end, the "mystery" always seems to be some criminal who tried to cover up what they'd done with "scary" costumes and stunts. And Shaggy and Scooby always unwittingly solve the "mystery". Road Runner, Tom and Jerry, Speed Racer are a few others that come to mind.

Devil Ledbetter · Jul 20, 2007

Another example can be found by comparing the Pixar movies Cars and Surf's Up. Both are about a young up-and-comer (Lightening McQueen/Maverick) wanting to win a championship, befriending a loyal hick (Mater/Chicken Joe) begging a reluctant old-time champion (Doc Hudson/Zeek-Geek) to help train him for the big competition, battling a trophy-loving jerk competitor (Chick/Tank) and wooing a clever girl (Sally Carrera/Lani).

The old-time champ shows up unexpectedly to support the MC at the competition. The MC selflessly throws the big competition to help a friend, thus learning that winning isn't the only thing. In the process, the old-time-champ is drawn back into the sport for the joy of it.

IrishElim · Jul 20, 2007

Wait? So you've been too proud to ask your boyfriend what he means when he uses the "formula" comment?

Ask him what he's on about next time he throws out the comment and deny him sex if you find it too insulting. That's how healthy relationships work.

JasonChirevas · Jul 20, 2007

Devil Ledbetter said:
Another example can be found by comparing the Pixar movies Cars and Surf's Up. Both are about a young up-and-comer (Lightening McQueen/Maverick) wanting to win a championship, befriending a loyal hick (Mater/Chicken Joe) begging a reluctant old-time champion (Doc Hudson/Zeek-Geek) to help train him for the big competition, battling a trophy-loving jerk competitor (Chick/Tank) and wooing a clever girl (Sally Carrera/Lani).

The old-time champ shows up unexpectedly to support the MC at the competition. The MC selflessly throws the big competition to help a friend, thus learning that winning isn't the only thing. In the process, the old-time-champ is drawn back into the sport for the joy of it.

Surf's Up isn't a Pixar movie, it's just a rip-off of Cars.

-Jason

cletus · Jul 20, 2007

In movies there is also the "Tom Cruise formula" as pointed out by comedian Rich Hall. It goes something like:

Top Gun
Tom Cruise is a fighter pilot, a pretty good fighter pilot, but has some bad luck. He suffers a crisis of confidence but the love of a good woman helps him turn it around.

Days of thunder
Tom Cruise is a racing driver, a pretty good racing driver, but has some bad luck. He suffers a crisis of confidence but the love of a good woman helps him turn it around.

Cocktail
Tom Cruise is a cocktail waiter, a pretty good cocktail waiter... I think you get the picture.

Devil Ledbetter · Jul 20, 2007

JasonChirevas said:
Surf's Up isn't a Pixar movie, it's just a rip-off of Cars.

-Jason

That's even worse, then.

Will Lavender · Jul 20, 2007

Azraelsbane said:
Really? I didn't get that, but maybe I just didn't read enough of his work. I read DaVinci Code and Angels and Demons (which I liked better). However, I couldn't get through the first two chapters of Digital Fortress or Deception Point. Snore-a-thon, imo.

Dan Brown is literally a formula writer. He admitted it to a court of law.

He claimed that he once read a Sidney Sheldon novel on vacation. When he finished, he thought, I can do better than that! And so he took Sheldon's formula--characterization of MC, characterization of villain, characterization of MC's love interest, description of doomsday plot, MC thwarts said plot, MC and love interest ride off together in an ambulance--and began writing his first book by some hotel swimming pool. And that exact formula is what he uses for every novel.

I like Brown's novels, I suppose, I enjoy them--but Brown should never be confused with a pioneer in the field. (And to my knowledge he never has been.)

Can someone please explain 'formula writing' to me?? Please??

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