Another Rape Discussion

windyrdg · Jul 19, 2007

Since we've been considering rape, here's a scene from my book.
Background: MC is dating school's football hero. He's just signed a scholarship to Big Ten school and his wealthy father holds a celebratory dinner. When young man leaves, his father tells him, "Be a man and celebrate the way you should."
They park at lover's lane, he's been drinking and in no mood to be turned down (again). When she asks him to take her home he pushes her down onto the seat and begin to force himself on her.
Realizing she's trapped, she begs and trys to negotiate. At the last minute she manages to spring the passenger door open and pitch him out head over heels.
She jumps into the driver's seat, spins the truck around - giving him a face full of gravel - and roars away in his new truck.

Relationship ends, although he appears in the book several more times much later.

Azraelsbane · Jul 19, 2007

I don't see that as a problem. I think the thing that is controversial is going into depth (romance style love-scene depth) with a rape scene. In my opinion, your scene is fine.

reenkam · Jul 19, 2007

I'd say it's perfectly fine. They show stuff like that on TV all the time (I'm remembering a scene from Heroes...). And she got away unharmed, which is nice.

Sassee · Jul 19, 2007

She shoulda beaned him with the door, or backed up and gave him a little love tap

But no, close calls are definitely good for a nail-biting experience. I wouldn't see a problem with that.

JasonChirevas · Jul 19, 2007

windyrdg said:
Since we've been considering rape, here's a scene from my book.
Background: MC is dating school's football hero. He's just signed a scholarship to Big Ten school and his wealthy father holds a celebratory dinner. When young man leaves, his father tells him, "Be a man and celebrate the way you should."
They park at lover's lane, he's been drinking and in no mood to be turned down (again). When she asks him to take her home he pushes her down onto the seat and begin to force himself on her.
Realizing she's trapped, she begs and trys to negotiate. At the last minute she manages to spring the passenger door open and pitch him out head over heels.
She jumps into the driver's seat, spins the truck around - giving him a face full of gravel - and roars away in his new truck.

Relationship ends, although he appears in the book several more times much later.

First, that's not rape, it's attempted rape.

Second, there's nothing you can't write so long as it's imperative to the story and you seek the proper market for it. I wouldn't market a novel with a graphic rape scene as YA, or humor. Nor would I expect many mainstream publishers to be interested, but none of this means the scene shouldn't be written...as long as it's integral to the story.

I think there's been too much worry and discussion (bragging?) lately about what's "controversial".

-Jason

Shady Lane · Jul 19, 2007

I wouldn't market a novel with a graphic rape scene as YA,

I really think people underestimate YA.

I'm confused by these conversations about "My book is too controversial" and "is rape an okay thing to show" because it happens in YA. It happens all the time. If it's not controversial, it's not going to be praised as a YA book.

JasonChirevas · Jul 19, 2007

Shady Lane said:
I really think people underestimate YA.

I'm confused by these conversations about "My book is too controversial" and "is rape an okay thing to show" because it happens in YA. It happens all the time. If it's not controversial, it's not going to be praised as a YA book.

I would tend to think you're not likely to find many graphic rape scenes in YA books from major publishers. I'm sure there's plenty of rape, forcing, awkward sex, etc., but I doubt much of it is graphically depicted. That was my point.

As to the rest of yours, I don't understand it. Why does a lack of rape, or other alleged controversial events, disqualify a YA book from praise?

-Jason

JohnDavidPaxton · Jul 19, 2007

Odd that you posted this. I just had another thought on the subject.

Greg Iles has to be at least middle-tier insofar as success goes. I'd peg him as an A list author in terms of sales.

Well recently I read one by him that had a rape scene told in present tense through the first person perspective. Now the scene lost all emotional impact (I think he held himself back or was edited to point of ruin) but it's in there. Lasts for several pages. And I don't know if anyone called for his head or tried to recall the book.

I think your context is fine.

Just remember: comeuppance

goatprincess · Jul 19, 2007

I would agree that a scene like this isn't really controversial. It will get readers cheering for your heroine, though.

On the other hand, a book that glorified rape or even presented it in a morally neutral light would have a much narrower readership. You can write about anything...it's a question of whether a topic has broad enough appeal to be marketable, and I don't think your scene would be a problem in this respect

Shady Lane · Jul 19, 2007

JasonChirevas said:
I would tend to think you're not likely to find many graphic rape scenes in YA books from major publishers. I'm sure there's plenty of rape, forcing, awkward sex, etc., but I doubt much of it is graphically depicted. That was my point.

As to the rest of yours, I don't understand it. Why does a lack of rape, or other alleged controversial events, disqualify a YA book from praise?

-Jason

What I mean is that the function of a YA book is to question. They're meant to take expectations and skewer them. The books that don't end up like Gossip Girls, or they're problem novels: This Book is About an Eating Disorder. This Book is About An Abusive Boyfriend.

Clearly, there's a big difference between a graphic rape scene and your garden-variety controversy, but my point is that nothing disqualifies a book from being a YA, except [usually] the absence of teenagers.

mscelina · Jul 19, 2007

except [usually] the absence of teenagers.

*snort!*

In my house, the absence of teenagers means I can get some work done.

JasonChirevas · Jul 19, 2007

Shady Lane said:
What I mean is that the function of a YA book is to question. They're meant to take expectations and skewer them. The books that don't end up like Gossip Girls, or they're problem novels: This Book is About an Eating Disorder. This Book is About An Abusive Boyfriend.

I feel like that's a blanket statement that one could apply to any novel...or no novel if the writer's main objective is to entertain.

-Jason

Shady Lane · Jul 19, 2007

JasonChirevas said:
I feel like that's a blanket statement that one could apply to any novel...or no novel if the writer's main objective is to entertain.

-Jason

Then the corollary is really my basic question: Why is everyone worried their books are to controversial?

reenkam · Jul 19, 2007

Shady Lane said:
Then the corollary is really my basic question: Why is everyone worried their books are to controversial?

I agree with what you said in earlier posts. But I think the problem comes in when agents say that it's too controversial/explicit/whatever. Then what? You can't call them up and inform them about the many books on the market that are "worse" when it comes to material, so what do you do?

That's when you have to consider even the tiniest bits and what someone might think pre-publishing. Of course, there are the agents&publishers that will publish the explicit language/sex/whatever in YA. Major ones do it all the time. You just have to find them...

Shady Lane · Jul 19, 2007

Reen--I totally see what you mean, and it's not something I haven't considered. But someone's getting those books on the shelves.

reenkam · Jul 19, 2007

true true. I wish I could find them....

where are they all hiding?!

Zoombie · Jul 20, 2007

I almost want to create a thread entitled: "My YA book is controversial...and it's great!"

And go on a long rant about just writing it and if they don't like it, they don't like it...

But I think I'll refrain. Rape scenes have been done before and done well, and done poorly. This is also only attempted rape. Should still give the MC a good shake of the cases. I mean case of the shakes.

javili · Jul 20, 2007

I really think people underestimate YA.

That statement intriques me. Could you expand? I am working on a book that I think would have the possibility of appealling to a somewhat-older-than-Potter-fans audience, but it's got sex and tough violence and naughty words in it. Maybe I shouldn't give up hope on the younger audience. (Who are all fascinated by sex, drugs, and violence, but I thought you weren't allowed to give it to them?)

Nakhlasmoke · Jul 20, 2007

Yeah, I think I really need to read the books Shady reads, because she's right, and I never read books thinking oh this is YA for this or that reason. Which is probably why my idea of YA as a market is so skewed.

So I second hearing Shady talk about her opinion of YA - what makes it work for her.

Wyndrdg: I'd like to see her drive over him, personally. *g*

javili · Jul 20, 2007

Darn, I wish she'd run the stupid brute over.

Just remember: comeuppance

I think you might like my rape scene, then.
And I really would like to hear more from Shady on this YA thing, including maybe regarding this scene.

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1489265#post1489265

Shady Lane · Jul 20, 2007

Wow, I feel like a frickin celebrity.

I don't want to hijack this thread, but I'll start a post on the YA board, okay? If anyone's interested.

Another Rape Discussion

windyrdg

New kid, be gentle!

Azraelsbane

Agony is defeat

reenkam

aka cupcake

Sassee

Momma Wolf

JasonChirevas

Shady Lane

my name is hannah

JasonChirevas

JohnDavidPaxton

goatprincess

untitled

Shady Lane

my name is hannah

mscelina

Teh doommobile, drivin' rite by you

JasonChirevas

Shady Lane

my name is hannah

reenkam

aka cupcake

Shady Lane

my name is hannah

reenkam

aka cupcake

Zoombie

Dragon of the Multiverse

javili

Nakhlasmoke

yes

javili

Shady Lane

my name is hannah