I am having so much TROUBLE...

[tfdswift]

I am having so much trouble with show vs. tell. Is there some key words or phrases that warn you that you are telling and not showing. It's like I just can't seem to grasp it.

And another thing...

When your character is thinking of something that someone else said to them, do you put the words in quotation marks or italics or what.

For instance:

Lisa remembered the words of her dead grandmother, < Never give up.>

How shoud "Never give up" be written?

Any help with the show vs. tell thing would be so greatly appreciated.

~~Tammy:head :head :head

[TerriLynn]

I hate that phrase! It's one of those things that grate my nerves like nails on a chalkboard! :ack

Telling the story is very hard to get away from because in a sense, you're telling us a story. However, in order to pull your reader into the story...which is what the goal of a good story is, you need to show them. How, you ask? By using the five senses. See, hear, feel, speak, taste and touch. (yeah, I know....you knew those.) You also want to use Sense of time, sense of space and sense of the unknown.

One way to help with the show/tell thing is to think of your book in terms of a movie. Step into each character and describe what it is you are feeling at that time in your story. If they're scared....describe how it feels....your heart races, your chest tightens, etc.
Make your character's more three dimensional by showing what they're feeling and how they're feeling it.

Sorry if this became too long winded.... :) But I hope it helps. I have a few websites that may help...let me know if you want them. Also....pick up the book WordPainting by Rebecca McClanahan...its very helpful as well.

Good luck.

Terri

[ChunkyC]

Hey Tammy -- there are others here who could probably give better 'show vs tell' examples, but I'll give it a shot if you are willing to bear with me.

Tell: It was cold.

Show: Mindy stepped out onto the porch and goosebumps appeared on her forearms within seconds. She wrapped her arms around her torso, but nothing could keep the wind from biting through her thin blouse. It might be freezing out here, but it was worse inside ... with him.

[Gala]

Tammy,
I recall we had a long discussion with you about this recently. You were given many examples then.

My suggestion to you now is to write as much as you can. Don't think too hard about show/tell issues.

I had trouble with the show/tell concept, and also POV when I first learned novel writing. People, books and a very good teacher explained it to me, but the idea was invisible. I couldn't see it in writing.

The only way I got it was by writing a lot. Eventually I knew how to do it as second nature. Also, learning to critique other writing helped.

More than anything, writing and writing will get it into your system.

When I taught myself guitar years ago, I didn't think I was physically capable of playing bar cords. I could see my finger across the neck, I'd press down, but the sound was dead. One day, to my shock, I was able to make those bar chords. Persistence was the key.

Same thing learning to ride a bike. My Dad had put up the training wheels, and I didn't know I was riding like a grownup until I stopped and he showed me the trainers were off the ground.

Good luck.

[Jamesaritchie]

What helped me with show versus tell was having someone explain that tell is a statement, show is a description.

"It was cold" is a statement, so it's tell.

"When Lucille got out of bed just before daylight, she had to break a thin layer of ice in the wash basin before rinsing her face" is a description that shows it's cold.

I think the trick is to never actually make a statement that says what you mean. Instead, write a description that shows what you mean.

Never say, "The dog was mean." That's tell.

Instead, show the dog is mean by describing his actions. "The dog snarled deep in its throat and bared its fangs. Then, almost too fast to follow, the great body lunged forward."

In a sense, you tell everything in a story. The question becomes do you tell it with statements or with description. Statements are tell, descriptions are show.

If you use description, and if you use active verbs, you get show, and will probably avoid passive writing at the same time.

[ChunkyC]

Great 'description', James. :thumbs

See? I told you there were others who could explain it better than me.

[maestrowork]

Have you ever play a game in which you must describe something without actually saying what it is? Play that game...

Use the five senses, and add actions.

There are different levels of show vs. tell... it all depends on what levels of detail you want.

"It's cold." -- totally telling. Very high level. Doesn't tell us much but it can be a good, quick statement to get us from one point to another when details are not necessary.

"The windshield is covered with ice." -- a low level of showing. Yes, you're telling us it's cold without saying it's cold, but there're not enough details. It's only slightly better than "it's cold."

"She cracks a thin layer of ice on her windshield..." -- a good level of showing. Some actions. Some descriptions. Concise wordings.

"With her numb fingers and fists she hits the layer of ice, thin as crackers but hard as stone, over and again until it starts to crack and chip off..." -- much more detail, using some or all of the five senses. Sometimes this much detail is overkill (how long will your book be? :b ) but it's very evocative.

As a writer/artist, you dictate how much show vs. tell you need. Sometimes telling is not only unavoidable, it's actually preferred. Not everyone paints like Monet... and even Monet didn't paint every stroke with the same details.

[Tish Davidson]

"As a writer/artist, you dictate how much show vs. tell you need. Sometimes telling is not only unavoidable, it's actually preferred. Not everyone paints like Monet... and even Monet didn't paint every stroke with the same details."

I think this is an important concept. To some extent, you need to gear the level of detail to the importance of the event. For example, if your character is starving, you might want to linger on the smell coming from the restaurant and his reaction to it. It the character is going to the restaurant to to meet a woman for an assignation, the smell would probably not be important. A lot of what makes the difference between memorable and mediocre writing lies in the selection and amount of detail. Sometimes you need just a single detail to make a minor character come to life instead of being flat. Sometimes you need more complex descriptions. Occasionally you simply need a flat statement. And if you use those flat, plain statements carefully, they can pack a lot of punch.

Take a look at some of the share your work samples on this board and see if you can see the difference between telling and showing. In the beginning, it is often easier to see in other people's writing than your own.

[TerriLynn]

It's summer for crying out loud! :)

Good examples so far....hope you're getting it. :-)

here's one with dialogue.

"I'm bored!" Jeremy dropped onto the sofa with a world-weary sigh. "Can we do something fun?"

(okay...that's my son...everyday!)

Dialogue is where you will really need to watch the telling.

[Jamesaritchie]

"I'm bored!" Jeremy dropped onto the sofa with a world-weary sigh. "Can we do something fun?"

If you simply leave off the statement, this becomes a good way to show boredom instead of telling.

"Jeremy dropped onto the sofa with a world-weary sigh. "Can we do something fun?"

It is important to note that sometimes tell is a good thing, just as sometimes passive is a good thing.

But it's more important to know when you're telling and when you're showing. Tell should never be used because you don't know the difference.

[maestrowork]

Jeremy dropped onto the sofa with a world-weary sigh. "Can we do something fun?"

Even "world-weary" is telling. Again, think of the game. Imagine the scene/action like a movie, and now, describe it without using any words that tell of "boredom," "weariness," etc.

[SRHowen]

"I'm bored!" Jeremy dropped onto the sofa with a world-weary sigh. "Can we do something fun?"

This is what I call tell then show, first you tell the reader what they should get out of your showing part, then show it--

Try to avoid it.

Shawn

[TerriLynn]

This would actually be considered a 'beat', a way to break up the dialogue with a character action. Granted, this isn't long winded dialogue, but it also sets the tone of voice.
In my example you can clearly hear the *whine* in J's voice as you read, without the "I'm bored" there is no whine. Although, since my 9yr old constantly whines about this....I guess I'm used to how it should sound. :)
You can try to avoid it as much as possible, but as stated earlier (by someone else)....sometimes telling is okay.
And before derogatory labels start stabbing me, pick up any best-seller and see how much telling there is.

[Jamesaritchie]

Sometimes telling is not only okay, it's the best way of getting something across. Most often, if you can show, then you should. But tell is very effective in the right place, and quite often there's no need to show when tell does the job easier and quicker.

Each time is a choice based on many factors. Sometimes it's as simple as ease, sometimes a given action doesn't deserve show, and sometimes tell is simply more realistic.

Real people often tell other people things, rather than showing them. In particular, dialogue often should use tell. Tell is really what dialogue is, more often than not.

Narrative more often demands show, but even there tell is often the best choice.

Just know the differene, use each intentionally, and base which to use on flow, pace, rhythm, importance, and realism.

And you don't have to worry much about eithe rin the first draft.

"Show, don't tell" is a very good rule, but you can't and shouldn't show everything.

[maestrowork]

Just as I said before, how much showing vs. telling depends on the scene, the situation, and the writer's style.

However, back to the original question. We are trying to show Tammy what show vs. tell is. Thus, this sentence:

"I'm bored!" He dropped on the sofa with his world-weary eyes. "Let's do something."

...is a poor example of show vs. tell. It's basically "tell" disguised as show.

[Maryn]

Chiming in late is just barely better than not at all, but I have to second maestro--as teaching examples go, this world-weary kid business just doesn't do the job.

(Nevertheless, thank goodness summer's coming to a close and they'll all be back in school soon!)

As we discuss show v. tell, I'm surprised that no one has noted that if the author limits himself to showing, the word count increases dramatically, even dangerously. (Take a second look at most of the examples.) That's another compelling reason to show what's worth showing and tell other information the reader needs but is less interesting.

Maryn

[TerriLynn]

Here's a link that may help you understand how to show over tell.

www.steampunk.com/sfch/writing/ckilian/#12 (http://www.steampunk.com/sfch/writing/ckilian/#12)

Apparently I give bad advice so I'll stick to showing you where to go to find legitimate help...and no one will slap your hand for asking the question over and over. ;)

[Jamesaritchie]

maestrowork, I think that sentence was a pretty good example because it's exactly what you said. . .tell though I don;t see how it's disguied as show. It's pure tell. So it is an good example of what tell, is, and how you can be fooled into thinking tell is show. But even if it were disguised, it would be an even better example.

And it's actually a pretty fair example of when it's okay to use tell. There's nothing at all wrong with having a character say, "I'm bored."

Sometimes we do get bored, and we do say so. I don't go around showing my wife I'm bored, I tell her so. Why make her guess?

[Nameless65]

Sometimes telling is not only okay, it's the best way of getting something across.

As we discuss show v. tell, I'm surprised that no one has noted that if the author limits himself to showing, the word count increases dramatically, even dangerously. I think these are excellent points. Although I haven’t seen it in this thread I often see things like:
Show Don’t Tell
Use Active Over Passive voice
Eliminate Adverbs and Adjectives

IMO, it’s better to learn the effect of each (show, tell, active, passive) and when it’s appropriate, rather than limiting oneself to one or the other.

[maestrowork]

Heh heh... usually I stomp around for a few minutes, flipping channels, picking up magazines and putting them down, letting out a few sighs... when the other person doesn't say anything, then I'll say: I'm bored.

When you write, think about what the character would do. Not many people would just come into the room and say, "I'm bored." Well, depends on the situation, but usually there's some foretelling -- something about them that shows us (even if we don't fully understand it) that they're bored.

At any rate, show makes for more vivid and evocative scenes. Tell is quick and direct, but leaves nothing to the imagination. Use them appropriately.

[TerriLynn]

good heavens give it a rest!

how about a debate on what came first the chicken or the egg?

:rolleyes

[rtilryarms]

how about a debate on what came first the chicken or the egg?

easy...the rooster

[Lori Basiewicz]

It depends, do you believe a chicken egg must be laid by a chicken or that a chicken could hatch from a non-chicken egg?

[TerriLynn]

Aw, I don't know...I get my chicken and eggs at Krogers. :grin

[maestrowork]

A chicken and an egg lay on the bed. The chicken was smoking a cigarette.

The egg turned to the chicken and said, "Well, I guess that answered the question."

[rtilryarms]

....the egg then filed a lawsuit claiming that second-hand smoke was making it ill. "No one wants a sick egg. It should be ill egg-al" the egg's lawyer said at the noon press conference.

[mammamaia]

in case you've forgotten, hens lay eggs daily, without the aid of a rooster... now, if you want new little chickens, and not just eggs, then it's a different story...

[pianoman5]

The strange thing is, though, that roosters provide social stability to a flock of hens. And when there isn't a rooster, one of the hens starts acting like one!

In commercial operations they cull hens that do that, but as soon as one has gone the way of the tumbril, another takes over. Cool, eh?

The glass ceiling is everywhere, and women ought to be pleased that the consequences of unbridled ambition are not always as fatal as for their chicken sisters.
<img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/image/posticons/pi_bigsmile.gif" />
(Ducks under table in anticipation)

[maestrowork]

I was just watching Cold Mountain on DVD... lots of references to roosters, chicken, eggs... I wonder what symbolisms they carry....

[SRHowen]

The incredible edible egg---:jump

Did you know if you soak an egg in vinegar long enough the shell dissolves, but the membrane underneath is still intact? Pretty cool. We did this for a Halloween party and then put them in a bucket and had a haunted house where you put your hand in with all these squishy shell-less eggs. Called them Dragon eyes. It was a hoot.

Shawn

[reph]

The glass ceiling is everywhere, and women ought to be pleased that the consequences of unbridled ambition are not always as fatal as for their chicken sisters.

(Ducks under table in anticipation)

If I were a duck and I heard that story about the removal of uppity chickens, I guess I'd be under the table pretty quick too.

[ChunkyC]

if you soak an egg in vinegar long enough the shell dissolves
I'd like to try that. We have lots of kids in our neighborhood. How long do they need to soak, Shawn?

[reph]

"We have lots of kids in our neighborhood. How long do they need to soak, Shawn?"

That is SUCH a good straight line...

[ChunkyC]

:lol if only it had been deliberate....

[tfdswift]

Okay. I know I asked the question before. But as I said I am really having a hard time grasping it. I have people telling me to avoid adverbs and adjectives, in school I was taught to add these things to make the story more interesting.:shrug

I think I have a better understanding about using the five senses, though. I am trying to edit a chapter in my ms and I can see it has alot of tell, I just am having a hard time turning some of it into show.

And nobody addressed the second part of my question at all.

{Lisa remembered the words of her dead grandmother, Never give up.}

How should 'Never give up' be written? What punctuation should be used, italics, etc...?

As far as the chicken and the egg are concerned the chicken came first. Argument settled.:thumbs

~~Tammy

[ChunkyC]

Hi again Tammy.

1 -- I also struggle with adjectives. This is one of those areas where practice makes perfect, as well as studying examples of active verb use. I try to look for words that end in LY like 'really' and replace them if possible.

Yucky: Jim ran really fast for the door.

Better: Jim bolted for the door.

2 -- Your character Lisa is remembering what her grandmother said. It doesn't have to be written as if the reader is in Lisa's mind 'hearing' the phrase at the moment Lisa remembers it. You can do it as if the narrator is passing along the info as follows....

Lisa remembered the words of her dead grandmother: Never give up.

Note the colon separating the clause from the rest of the sentence. If you wish to have more emphasis, to show that the words have a lot of meaning for Lisa, then italics will help with that. With the way you have the sentence structured, I would still use the colon. I think italics to indicate thought are fine until you want to have a lot of thought, then the italics get tough to read from a purely visual standpoint.

[tfdswift]

Thanks Chunky for the "ly" rule. That is something that I can apply to my writing and understand. Someone somewhere else on the board said to avoid words like felt, seem, saw, thought, appeared, etc...

These are things that I can use and apply, in other words my hillbilly brain can absorb them....lol

Any other rules of thumb???

~~Tammy

[maestrowork]

Adjectives and adverbs: as with many things, moderation is the key here.

In general, they make your prose weak. Why, because it means you can't think of a better word. For example:

"She walked slowly toward the house."

Why "walk slowly"? Why not "stroll" or "amble" or many other words. Same with "run quickly" -- first of all, "run" already denotes "quick." In addition, there are many other better words.

Cry loudly == how about wail?
said softly == how about murmur?
tie it loosely around something == how about tie a loose knot around something?

Adjectives also weaken your prose, although in a less obvious way -- basically most adjectives fall in the "tell not show" category. There's nothing inherently wrong with adjectives.

Most people overuse adjectives: the beautiful, breathtaking, glorious moon (it's redundancy, baby). Also they use it when none is needed, e.g.: the beautiful sunset (we all know sunset is beautiful...)

So instead of writing "the beautiful sunset" why not show us how beautiful it is, and in context:

"the setting sun rivaled the ostrich yolks Mama used to fry." (it's bad writing, but hopefully you see what I mean)

Adverbs and adjectives are not totally avoidable and sometimes they're necessary (just like "tell vs. show"). In your rewrite, think about if that's the absolute best words you can use. If possible, change them into something more vivid and use a strong noun or verb.

[DanALewis]

The way I understand this show/tell business, telling can be used effectively for summary, say between important scenes:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Jim hailed a taxi. "Uptown." The car screeched into the lunchtime traffic as he slumped into a corner of the back seat, agonizing over his speech to the board. No answers came on the half-hour slog through the city.

[ChunkyC]

Dan, that taxi scene is a great example. I think it's also important to note how your 'telling' in that little scene wasn't just filler, it gave a sense of Jim's apprehension over the upcoming meeting:

the car screeched
he slumped
he agonized
the trip was a slog
he overpaid the fare
he ignored the cabbie

Nicely done.

[SRHowen]

I don't remember how long we soaked them, but if you keep an eye on them, think it took a day or two you will see the shell begin to vanish.

Also, LOL if you add a bit of vinegar to the water when boiling eggs it makes them easier to peel. I'm just full of useless facts.

Shawn:jump (I really like that bouncy guy--no idea why)

[CindyBidar]

This excellent article (http://www.sfwa.org/writing/chadvce.htm) has lots of tips for making your writing stronger, including how to ferret out those nasty adverbs. You can check out the rest of their articles here (http://www.sfwa.org/writing/). The articles lean toward specfic, but they're quite useful for all writers.

And Tammy, why don't you post something in the "share your work" forum, so everyone can see exactly what you are talking about? Might be more useful than theory and random examples.

Cindy

[maestrowork]

Sol Stein's book is excellent -- and there is a chapter or two on abverbs and adjectives.

[ChunkyC]

couple days -- check

vinegar while boiling, easier to peel -- check

Thanks Shawn! If even one of the little bugg-- er, darlings --squeals their head off on Halloween, then it wasn't a useless tidbit! Bwuahahaha!

And I agree with Maestro about Sol Stein's book. It's one of the best I've read.

[HConn]

Stein's book is the only book I've ever read through to the end, then immediately started it again from the beginning.

Good book.

[reph]

The main thing for easy-to-peel eggs is, use eggs at least three days old.

[maestrowork]

In China, they have the thousand-year-old eggs...

[Fresie]

Hi Tammy,

It's really weird nobody mentioned the poor granny at all! Or at least I couldn't find anything about it. On the contrary, that's the part that interested me. The sentence is:

Lisa remembered the words of her dead grandmother, Never give up.

I remember this excellent bit of advice that when writing in a limited POV we need to drop all verbs of perception. Like, instead of, "He thought it was a good idea" we could simply write, "Good idea". Not "He heard a bird singing in the wood", but "A bird was singing (or sang) in the wood". Here too, "remembered" seems a bit redundant to me--indeed, you "tell" the reader what Lisa was doing--she was remembering, and it does distance the reader a bit, IMHO. Personally, I would rewrite this sentence like this:

Never give up, [as] her grandma used to say.

If it's in Lisa's POV, then it's obvious it's her thought. "Dead" would too be redundant because Lisa herself knows perfectly well her grandma is dead, so you're saying this only for the reader's sake. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that "used to say" implies that granny isn't around any more. And this way, you don't really need to italicize it.

Hope it helps,

Cheers

Fresie

[tfdswift]

Maybe I am just hopeless.:smack

~~Tammy

[HConn]

Any of us might be hopeless. It's hard to tell. Even with a couple sales under your belt, you may find that it's impossible to publish anything consistently or successfully.

You can't tell until you try and fail.

[tfdswift]

I truly did not mean for this to turn into a show and tell thing I just thought I needed a dialogue word. But now I see I had it right the first time.

As for posting my work in the "share your work" board. I don't think I am ready for that yet. I am not so tough that I can take alot of criticism and roll with it, YET. Also, one thing I have found is that almost never do two people agree on the advice that is given on these boards, and I am too new to sort through it all and get a good finished product from everybody combined.

I will tell you that in the part about the thought and how it should be I will put that exact paragraph from my mss and the way I wrote it and you can tell me if it is right:



Becky thought her lungs were going to explode before she broke the surface of the water. She tried to looked around, through squinted eyes. It was dark and foggy and her eyes were burning from the salt water. “Stay calm. Don’t panic.” Her grandpa’s voice rang in her head. “If you’re ever in an emergency, stay calm, don’t panic, assess the situation.” She took her hand and pushed her hair out of her eyes.



Everything in quotation marks I also had in italics. I just don't know how to use italics on these boards. So am I right? Or do I need to change it?

~~Tammy :huh

[maestrowork]

IMHO, you have it right, Tammy. Even though the dialogue is in her head, it's actually her grandpa's voice (memory) so the quotes would be suitable here.

(BTW, I think it's a strong paragraph.)

[ChunkyC]

I agree with Maestro here, and not just to show that two of us can agree. ;)

[tfdswift]

Hooray!!!! I finally got it right.:jump :snoopy :clap

You guys have no idea how much I respect your opinion. That is why I am so wary about sharing. Thank you so much.
:kiss :kiss :kiss

~~Tammy

[TerriLynn]

I planned to lay low but thought I'd offer my opinion. The paragraph reads well, however reconsider redoing this sentence to make it stronger.

She tried to looked around, through squinted eyes.

try: She squinted, her eyes darting back and forth (or She squinted and searched around for ??).

And this one sounds kinda silly: She took her hand and pushed her hair out of her eyes. did she take her hand off? ;)

Just say she pushed her hair out of her eyes or maybe she tossed her head back and flicked the hair out of her eyes. (usually, (unless your standing in shallow water), you're going to toss this hair out of your eyes as soon as you surface.)

One more....try burned instead of were burning. it make the sentence tighter.

best,
:)
Terri

[tfdswift]

As I said, people on this board never agree.:(

~~Tammy

[Euan Harvey]

In China, they have the thousand-year-old eggs...Aye. Some very strange chickens in China...

[Gala]

nice job, t-swift. Good suspense too.

as for<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>She squinted, her eyes darting back and forth <hr></blockquote>

This is what's known as a dismembered body part. Her eyes can't act on their own, outside her head.

Yeah, I know. Many authors dismember body parts. But I thought I'd let t-swift know about this technique. I like that she didn't dismember in her version.

Keep it up, t-swift. <img border=0 src="http://www.absolutewrite.com/images/emoteThumbs.gif" />

[SRHowen]

Same with tossing her head--I always want to ask How far? Or she took her hand--took it where? Her eyes darted around the room, cool, I want eyes that move by themselves--lol

Avoid the body parts with minds of their own.

Shawn

[maestrowork]

As Stepen King once wrote: She rolled her eyes toward the door.

[TerriLynn]

I rest my case.

:rolleyes

cya

[Gala]

t-swift,
this is an example of why I cautioned you about getting feedback on the internet. Some may give you feedback that is incorrect.

In this case, you get the right way, so you can learn--and the lesser way, so you can appreciate the difference.

Learn the best techniques, then you'll know when you're breaking rules and enjoy writing and reading all the more--as with your show/tell.

[tfdswift]

Thanks guys.

:hug

~~Tammy