Iowa Writers Workshop

[WerenCole]

So, they tell me that this is the best graduate program in the country for creative writing MFA's. My mother and uncle are pushing me hard to go (or at least apply) because they think it would be the perfect thing for my writing career: Get out of the east coast for a while, go the the "best" writing school in the country and become a teacher while I write (which I hear is not the best thing to do. . . teachers do tend to not have time to write).

I am having a couple problems here. . . first of all. . . it. . is. . in. . . IOWA. Sorry folks, I am sure you have a nice little town but I thought my family tried really hard to get OUT of the mid-west. Second, The school seems to want to place their grads as teachers, which I of course have no desire to be. Third, really, I know we have some creative writing majors and masters around here, but why would I go somewhere, way out there, to do creative writing? I mean, really, is a MFA in creative writing even necessary? Those of you who have one, tell me really, does/did it help you? What are you doing now?

I asked this question a couple of years ago when I was thinking of the writing tract in my English major, but that was more of a concentration within the major than an actual program but this question is different. Tell me, what do you people know of the Iowa Workshop, is a MFA in creative writing worth a damn and. . . well, general opinions on such things.


Thanks folks,

The W.C.

[Will Lavender]

A degree from Iowa still means something. It is, obviously, all about the writer's talent, but MFAs will never hurt you in the publishing world, and MFAs from prestigious institutions certainly won't hurt.

But I highly doubt the folks at Iowa are "pushing" their grads to become anything. If you don't want to be a teacher (and as a former teacher myself, I personally don't blame you), then don't become one.

As for the MFA itself, I highly recommend it. It helped me not in a traditional how-to sense, but in the way that being around other aspiring writers always helps. There will be time when you write in what seems a vacuum. Trust me. It is good to get yourself in writing situations where others can and are willing to respond to you in both positive and negative ways.

Because after you earn the MFA, there'll be a dead period where you write and the only response you get will be rejections. How long that lasts differs for everyone, but it will come.

Good luck.

[Will Lavender]

One more thing.

If you don't like the idea of studying in the Midwest, research the other top MFA programs. Brown has a fine one, Johns Hopkins, the New School, Hollins College (now Hollins University, I believe), Stanford, etc.

There isn't this severe drop-off between Iowa and the rest.

[gerrydodge]

One more thing.

If you don't like the idea of studying in the Midwest, research the other top MFA programs. Brown has a fine one, Johns Hopkins, the New School, Hollins College (now Hollins University, I believe), Stanford, etc.

There isn't this severe drop-off between Iowa and the rest.

Columbia has a very good one, too. MFA's mean something. An agent told me recently that if you want to break into fiction, write for magazines first like, Harper's, New Yorker, prestigious magazines like that, and the best way to break into those publications is to have an MFA. Obviously, that's not a hard and fast rule, but it can't hinder your eventual dream of being published. Or, you can write and query and write and query and get rejection after rejection after rejection after...well, you know what I mean, like I did and continue to do.

[Jamesaritchie]

Iowa is still the one with the best reputation, and the one that will do the most for you in the world of publishing. But you lost me when you complained about the mid-west. You can have the best, or you can have somewhere else. You can't have both. Way out there? This isn't the 19th century, you won't be attacked by Indians, and if you're really lucky, most places will even have indoor plumbing and electricity.

I wouldn't for a second say an MFA is the best way to break into such publications as Harper's or The New Yorker. It isn't. Won't usually help you a bit, in fact. But in the bigger world of publishing, meaning work in publishing, an MFA is far and away the easiest method of breaking in, though certainly not the only way.

But you should do what you want. If you don't want an MFA, you won't get a thing out of such a program, and you'll be taking up space best used by someone who really wants it. And space is limited, requirements are high, and not everyone get in.

Do, however, get away from the east coast. This will help you as a writer more than any MFA.

[WerenCole]

Right, understood. I do not to seem that I am ranting but rather am curious of this particular school and the culture at that level... Emerson and Boston U and North Eastern are all on my list, but only Iowa for creative writing in particular.

[gerrydodge]

Iowa is still the one with the best reputation, and the one that will do the most for you in the world of publishing. But you lost me when you complained about the mid-west. You can have the best, or you can have somewhere else. You can't have both. Way out there? This isn't the 19th century, you won't be attacked by Indians, and if you're really lucky, most places will even have indoor plumbing and electricity.

I wouldn't for a second say an MFA is the best way to break into such publications as Harper's or The New Yorker. It isn't. Won't usually help you a bit, in fact. But in the bigger world of publishing, meaning work in publishing, an MFA is far and away the easiest method of breaking in, though certainly not the only way.

But you should do what you want. If you don't want an MFA, you won't get a thing out of such a program, and you'll be taking up space best used by someone who really wants it. And space is limited, requirements are high, and not everyone get in.

Do, however, get away from the east coast. This will help you as a writer more than any MFA.

The agent who told me that was arrogant and you would probably know his name, but I won't mention it. He is one of the agents who I will most certainly write to and tell him just how arrogant he is and was when I finally get published. But, as I said before, a MFA cerrtainly won't hurt.

Getting out of the east coast? Really? Well, let's see, there is Richard Russo, Richard Ford, Joyce Carol Oates, Russell Banks, John Updyke, William Styron, Kurt Vonnegut, Jonathan Safran Fore, John Cheever, David Gates--just to name a few who hunkered down in the east coast and stayed.

But if you meant to get out and get another perspective, well that's a whole different story.

[Will Lavender]

If you were my son, WerenCole, here's what I would tell you:

Go to Boston U, get your Masters in psychology.

Practice for six years. At your thirtieth birthday, take a sabbatical and begin your MFA, perhaps in a summer program. Obtain said MFA by 33. Return to your practice. In the summer of your 33rd year, begin your writing career in earnest. Write, of course. Practice hard. Write as much as you can with a very limited sense of how you might get it published; when you begin to dream of publishing, that shapes and sometimes distorts the work itself. And read like a mofo, obviously: trade journals, trashy novels, classics, blogs, message boards, sports mags, epic fantasy, mythology, Harold Robbins.

This is what I wish I would have done. As it was, I got my MFA too young and spent about six years spinning my wheels teaching at a community college in a pretty solid state of poverty before I sold my novel. There's a lot of writing education to be gained that has nothing concretely to do with the writing process.

[gerrydodge]

If you were my son, WerenCole, here's what I would tell you:

Go to Boston U, get your Masters in psychology.

Practice for six years. At your thirtieth birthday, take a sabbatical and begin your MFA, perhaps in a summer program. Obtain said MFA by 33. Return to your practice. In the summer of your 33rd year, begin your writing career in earnest. Write, of course. Practice hard. Write as much as you can with a very limited sense of how you might get it published; when you begin to dream of publishing, that shapes and sometimes distorts the work itself. And read like a mofo, obviously: trade journals, trashy novels, classics, blogs, message boards, sports mags, epic fantasy, mythology, Harold Robbins.

This is what I wish I would have done. As it was, I got my MFA too young and spent about six years spinning my wheels teaching at a community college in a pretty solid state of poverty before I sold my novel. There's a lot of writing education to be gained that has nothing concretely to do with the writing process.

BRAVO!!

[WerenCole]

Well, I might actually agree with the East Coast thing. I wrote my first novel in four months when I lived in Colorado yet it took eighteen months to write the second back in Virginia. Too many distractions.

(Excuse me for my brevity as I am posting with my phone.)

[popmuze]

I always regret never having applied to the Iowa program. I was just married and my wife said, "No way am I going to move from Greenwich Village to Iowa while you write."
So if you are unencumbered by spouse, and happen to be extremely lucky enough to be accepted, to turn it down would be tragic.
Forget about everything else, just the connections you'd make with the published novelist professors and your soon to be published classmates, would make this a career move second to none.

[WerenCole]

In six years I will be 32. Journalism or (preferably) film are in my plans. We'll see though. I am too much of a head case myself to mess with others. Age is important now as I wish get my masters before I am 30. (Which at this point is not guaranteed.)

[Susan B]

There's an article in the current issue of Atlantic Monthly about the role of graduate writing programs. (Read about this in the Pubisher's Lunch e-newsletter.)

Article lists the top programs (in alphabetical order):

Boston University
University of California at Irvine
Cornell University
Florida State University
University of Iowa
Johns Hopkins University
University of Michigan
New York University
University of Texas, Michener Center
University of Virginia

...for what it's worth.

Susan

[blacbird]

I did the Iowa workshop experience, back in the 1970s. Enjoyed it, was unfocused and horribly unsuccessful at it, but that was my fault, not the fault of the program. Unless you are addicted to big-city life, or can't handle a bit of snow or the occasional tornado, Iowa City is one of the most pleasant places to hang out imaginable. An epitome of the Midwestern small university town. That is, the town is small; the U is big. When I was there, about 40% of the populace was students.

Now, that was a long time back, although I know from visits there that the town hasn't altered all that much (except for the stretch through which the tornado went last year). And the Workshop has maintained the rep it has for a reason: they work at it, treat it very seriously, and generally get good people there. It can be a bit cliquish, but me suspects that to be true of any of the big, prestigious programs, because a lot of students who get accepted get competitive and snooty about it. Be prepared.

Do you need an M.F.A. in writing? Obviously not. Look around at the number of successful writers who never did that. Does it help? Not in my case, but for others, it has.

I'd recommend getting some alternatively educated skill, though, as a general principle. Acclaimed poet Wallace Stevens was a vice-president of the famed Hartford Insurance Company. Terry Brooks was a corporate lawyer before he discovered Shannara. Rex Stout made a fortune in accounting, before commencing to write 70 or so Nero Wolfe mysteries.

Go have a life. It helps.

caw

[WerenCole]

Did you say tornadoes?











I'm sure being a chef and part owner of a restaurant qualifies as "alternatively educated." Right? I though this whole university thing was supposed to be my alternative education after all the years of playing with fire and knives.

[grommet]

And just to defend good 'ol Iowa City: it is a small town, but it's a college town and it has a lot of wonderful culture. Trust me, there are much worse places to live while doing your grad work.

Because an MFA is a terminal degree, a lot of folks will try to encourage you to take the teaching route. Why? Because you're spending an awful lot of money on a higher degree that doesn't guarantee you in employment in your field. What they don't tell you is that even the teaching positions are hard to come by -- schools are looking for published writers with higher level degrees.


grommet (http://www.kathrynmillerhaines.com)

[blacbird]

Because an MFA a terminal degree,

. . . sort of like a terminal illness. Your soul dies the moment you get one.

caw

[grommet]

. . . sort of like a terminal illness. Your soul dies the moment you get one.

bahaha...so true, blacbird, so true.

grommet (http://www.kathrynmillerhaines.com)

[WerenCole]

Did I miss something?