Who are we kidding?

Damn good question, and a good suggestion too. I know folks who are making films and putting them into film festivals hoping to tickle the interest of prodcos and distributers. And sometimes that happens.

And there's always contests, which have been known to lead to options and fellowships and connections and greater things.

I've had such great success with querying prodcos and the like that I just quit doing it, waste of time.

But I don't think I'm being pessimistic either, just realistic. Even if it sounds gloomy.

-Derek

Pryce said:

So you have currently stopped trying to sell your screenplays? Do you still write?

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Yeah I'm still writing -- it's a disease.

Although my internal editor is so bogged down with accumulated lists of do's and don'ts that squeezing out a single sentence can take hours. That's another kind of disease!

I submitted a handful of scripts to a few contests this year just so I could tell myself I was actually doing something.

But have I stopped trying to sell my screenplays...?

Hmm, you know, I think I have. Wow. Moment of realization. Feels kinda strange when you finally admit it.

Edit: whoops, sorry, I didn't catch your edit. I haven't been sending queries out.

-Derek

Pryce,

It's called irony.

It DOES happen and you CAN sell BUT you have to be dedicated, resourceful and extremely lucky and the last quality outweighs the other two hugely.

I'd say if you have been going for 5 years with nothing then make a cheap short film based on one of your ideas, if you can. Showing someone a completed project might open up other avenues eg director/writer etc...

If you want something bad enough and you're talented it WILL happen.

Pryce said:

So the majority of people who post on this forum are hoping to get lucky? (sounds naive, I know)
Or have they decided that they will continue to write as a hobby?
Because if most of us here are dedicated hobbyists, we could try to make something together, just for the hell of it, since there's no money lost.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I've detected a certain "don't look at my exam" attitude, expressed by me as well, on this forum.
I thought it was justified because you don't want to give away an idea to some stranger on the Internet and have him sell it for himself.
But if we can accept that there's no money involved, why not exchange ideas and collaborate?

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That's what everyone does when they post some work up for people here to critique. No-one is going to rip off anyone's script or logline because there's no point. Writing a good script is only a small part of the game. getting it into the right hands, as another poster has remarked, is far more difficult (like by a factor of 50). The better the script, the easier it is. Also, you'll only know something is worth even CONSIDERING ripping off if you know what makes a really good script in which case you'll write a better one yourself anyway.

WGA doesn't allow for more than about 4 credits I think and writing a script with more people would be madness unless it's a back-room studio project.

May I humbly suggest that if you're a writer you write something yourself or with people who live near you because from experience of working with people who live a long way away you need face-to-face contact to make the thing really tick and to spot any flaws etc

When I write a script I love doing it: I write it because it makes me happy (honest - ok - the first draft at any rate). I'm not hoping to get lucky - it's like hoping to win the lottery. There's no point hoping - it'll either happen or it won't. By being very good at what you do you can improve your chances.

You only know you've written a great script when someone is prepared to produce it and pay you money for it, and even then you worry yourself shitless at what the box office stats and critics will say (and possibly your mother).

I was gonna start this thread myself, but you beat me to it.

I got in old school. I pitched, they liked, I wrote. That's how it used to go. Now I'm f-ed. No body likes nothing, period. You must present full, polished stuff that they don't take. It's a waste of my time. F the bunch of h-wood.

I have a polished, really cool sci-fi tv series, but it'll only be stolen from me. Screw them, I won't give them my best for nothing in return. This is a really cool, cutting edge sci-fy that takes the best of human nature into new territory. So what? I give, they take all the profits. My kids enjoy the stories, and I'll take that. They can't have it.

Sorry, dpat, Mac, but I'm ticked and for good reason.

I have another series, a great hour drama, 'Caliente, Nevada', where the mayor gets elected because she misses a meeting. It runs along the lines of
'the office' and 'reno 911'. The town gets screwed because their exit doesn't make the federal highway cut so . . .

LA does not want our work. They just don't want it. Face that fact.

So, forget them, I won't write for you anymore.

I have two novels to polish. I'll do that, then I have a nice YA series I'd like to write for my kids. Publish it, ah, don't think that will happen. Can I have a wonderful writing experience with my children.

Now I have a strong hatred for hooolycrap. If my novels make it, I'll never let them be taken to film. Hate is a strong word I don't use lightly.

Fuck a whole bunch of hooolywood.

a suggestion perhaps

Hi everyone,

I just joined this site so pleaseforgive my newbiness.

I am also disheartened by the difficulty in getting (potentially) good ideas rejected by hollywood after putting your heart and soul into a feature script for a month or two and get a lovely 'thanks but no thanks' from the knobs who have all the say.

When I was in Wellington a few years ago, there was a group of scriptwriters who met once a month at a central venue, had a coffee, batted ideas around, we individually wrote short films and when they were ready for production we all pitched in as cameraman, sound recordist, editor etc and made shorts that went into the fringe festival. I currently live in Frankston, Melbourne and have looked for a similar group of people to do the same here but as yet have not had any luck. If you guys are near me and want to start something like this or in your own city, then that is one way we can do something productive to keep entusiasm up and polish ideas and talent in writing/directing.

I can come up with ideas for stories fairly quickly and am two-thirds through my current script, have another idea waiting to be written. I would love to meet a decent literary agent if anyone has a contact they can send me. Also if anyone wants to read a script and give feedback then I am happy to send a script and am happy to give honest feedback to others if they want it for their babies (scripts that is)

May the gods of great writers bless us all with ideas and luck heh heh

Frank

G'day Frank,

If you wander over to the Done Deal forum (www.donedealpro.com) and ask Nic H about Melbourne writing groups you may be in luck ... I know that she is Melbourne based, and probably has an idea of what is around.

It is best probably not to ask your new contacts for leads on Agents etc for the moment, because it can put them in a difficult situation ... it is difficult to say politely ('I don't think so-and-so would be interested') when friends pressure you to pass on scripts, etc.

Good luck !

Mac

Thanks

Cheers Mac, I appreciate the advice

regards

Frank

Pryce said:

Are there any realistic opportunities in screenwriting at all, or will we be seventy and still posting on this forum, discussing character development and POV while collecting our pension from our career of unplugging toilet?

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You know, this very thought plays through my mind every single day, especially when I'm plugging away on my script. I KNOW it's a very long shot, and that's coming from someone who has an open door to Glen Morgan (Final Destinations 1 & 3, Williard, Black Christmas remake). My script can't just be good, it has to be spectacular... it has to have that "it" factor. You have to get someone to pull your script from the thousands of others and make them want to invest millions of dollars in your script!

Think about that. I believe someone around here likened it to winning the lottery. If I didn't have an open door, I doubt I'd continue writing scripts at all. It's a long, tedious process. Yes, I enjoy writing, but I have better chances with my novels and could be spending more time on them. I will always write.

I really applaud those who push on, those who have no contacts as of yet, but keep the faith in their abilities anyway. I'm too much of a realist to have that kind of faith.

I'm too darn stubborn to think I won't make it. One way or another I'll break in. I know it. I've had close calls and near misses. Have a couple in "pre-production" that I'm still waiting to hear back on and two shorts that are in discussions with producers. One which *crosses fingers* if they can get the distributor support they're currently trying to get, will appear on cable.

Then two group projects that have production and agent support, so who knows.

Then the good ol' queries always going out.

I'm a dreamer in a realist body with too stubborn an attitude to quit. Talk about a messy combination.

Ah well, we all have our problems.

Pryce said:

Are there any realistic opportunities in screenwriting at all, or will we be seventy and still posting on this forum, discussing character development and POV while collecting our pension from our career of unplugging toilets?

I'm not pessimistic, my point is simply that screenwriting might the wrong approach to movie making. Maybe making movies, at the amateur-film school level, is a better way to start.

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This depends on your overall career goals. If your goal is to be a screenwriter, then why deal with the stress and complexity of managing the production of movie making?

If your goal is to be a movie maker, then it really isn't worth your time spending years screenwriting, go find one of the billion scripts out there, and make it.

If your goal is simply to have a movie produced, with your name on the credits, write a short and shoot it for a few thousand on your credit card, and load it up on YouTube.

WarrenP said:

If your goal is simply to have a movie produced, with your name on the credits, write a short and shoot it for a few thousand on your credit card, and load it up on YouTube.

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Or put in your local movie theatre, get some reviews, get some killer reviews where the reviewer quotes your dialogue, and the package it and distribute it to 500 people in Hollywood and Manhattan. Somebody will take you to lunch, and you have your hour-long pitch.

Or get a job in Hollywood anywhere in the movie biz, and make friends.

Either route takes four to ten years to bear fruit . . .

Show of hands: how many people neglect querying indies because they know the paycheck won't be as big?

It seems everyone's following that "Warner Bros bought my script for a million dollars" pipe dream. But you're not the only one following it -- ten thousand other people are following it, too, and they're querying the same people and places as you. That's a lot of fuckin' screenplays. So many that studio readers have to be fickle about what they'll read, because they've got a lot of scripts to go over. Why else would they toss a script aside for not having enough brads, or there being a misspell in the first ten pages if not for the fact that they're looking for a reason not to read your script, because they have so many others to read?

In the independent market, though, the competition is less stiff and I honestly believe it's because aspiring writers know they won't make huge lumps of money from them on a sale so they don't bother with them. But what they don't realize is that your chances of selling are better, which makes your chances of breaking into the industry better and the chances are better that the script you sale will actually be made.

That's what's important, to me; gaining credits, getting my name out there, even if it is in the smaller circles. Get myself established so that I'll have a track record if I ever choose to query a major, and won't need to resort to tricks to get them to check out my stuff. And if they show interest, THEN I'll worry about that million dollar screenplay sale. Just about every A-list actor, director or writer started off that way.

Long before he made a billion dollar franchise out of Spider-Man, Sam Raimi was writing and filming on shoe-strings, being productive, getting his name and his work out there without help from a major. Long before he made Titanic, James Cameron directed Piranha II. Long before he became a multiple Oscar Winner, Jack Nicholson was making flicks with the King of Cheap, Roger Corman. Long before they became the biggest FX company in Hollywood, KNB was supplying effects for no-budgeters like Intruder and Evil Dead II. Long before he became the most popular horror author of all time, Stephen King wrote for fanzines and his local paper. None of these people became rich over night. They worked at it, took what they could get and established themselves. Through the indies.

You have to be willing to do the same. Put in the work. Take what you can get. Get a couple credits under your belt. Getting rich will come later.

And I think if more people adopted that approach, there'd be less hobbyists out there and more working screenwriters.

That's what I do, Boo. No point in wasting time with the big boys at our stage. Focus on the little guys with solid credits. Get a short produced as a film school final project. The school foots the budget, and encourages them to submit to x amount of festivals if they want the A grade. I'm doing that with one of my shorts.

Try many different approaches and who knows what will happen from there.

Actually it needs new writers all the time.

Just not as many as are trying to cram into the door.

Screenwriters who aren't directors or producers themselves tend to have a short career span.

The slots for television shows often open.

Right now, however, we are on the lowest rung. We don't have really any credits, no one knows us, and we don't have any buzz hanging around us.

So it's up to us to get those first credits rolling one way or another.

There's always slots, but very few are filled by those on the lowest rungs. Meaning untried, unproven, unsold writers. There are lots of ways to fix it.

And often it boils down to our writing as well. Often we just aren't doing a good enough job.

Sad but true.

Pryce said:

Yeah, well, a lot of "professional" writers suck rather severely too. As for persistence, etc, I'm sure that if we all hung in there, we'd eventually option or sell something. But it becomes a matter of Return on Investment. Is waiting years and years to make $2,000 worth it? Not for me. I'd rather unplug people's toilets. At least they'll me cash on the spot.

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And that is absolutely your choice. But to say it's impossible to break in is misinformation. Every writer in the industry started out on the bottom (well save those who have close family and friends in the industry).

If you don't want to persist at it. Don't. Simple.

Call me crazy for a diehard, but I know what I want, I have an idea on how to get it, and it would take an awful lot to make me up and quit.

The industry isn't for everyone. Writing isn't for everyone. So you need to decide, is it for you or not.

I've made my decision. It's what I want to do. So, I do it. Why? Because it makes me happy.

If you would be happier unclogging toilets, by all means, there are plenty of slots for that.

If you're looking for fast cash and instant job satisfaction, then unclogging toilets is definitely the way to go.

For screenwriting, there is no such thing as overnight success. It just doesn't happen. And why should it? Doctors go to school for 10+ years to master their craft. No one puts a scalpel in their hand during their first semester. Screenwriting is no different. Which is why Hollywood hates query letters, because 95 percent of them come from idiots who think they can write one screenplay and make a quick million. It just doesn't work that way. It takes many years and many scripts to get to a competitive level, and only then does any kind of luck even matter.