The Power of Positive Feedback

popmuze · Jul 15, 2007

I used to be able to write just for myself (about a hundred years ago) but ever since I started getting paid and published I find I write so much better under a contract or after some serious praise from an agent or an editor.

When I know someone has offered me money, my creative juices move into hyper drive. While, if I'm just writing on spec, I'm rarely motivated to produce my best stuff.

That's why I feel it's silly for me to revise my novel any longer or work on something new until I get feedback from an editor ready to pay for it. The quality of my writing is a hundred times better when I know it's being recognized.

Ziljon · Jul 15, 2007

I'm the same way.

Siddow · Jul 15, 2007

Crap. I'm just the opposite. I'm doomed.

Although I do get motivated to produce new stuff when I make a sale.

maestrowork · Jul 15, 2007

Getting paid for the work or having a deadline or having positive feedback is good motivation. But I don't think it's silly to want to do your best even if no one is ready to pay for it. And I don't think it's a good idea to present something half ass to an editor and to only revise it if the editor is ready to pay for it -- unless, of course, you have such a relationship with the editor already. Anyway, I love positive feedback just like the other person, but I don't really let it dictate how I write.

Susan Breen · Jul 15, 2007

I always used to write for myself, but now that my first book has sold, I am working on a synopsis for the next book and showing it to my agent as I write, and it is a very weird feeling. I love having his input and enthusiasm, but I'm also feeling much more anxiety as I write. Before, when I got rejected, it was by someone I didn't know. Now, if he doesn't like it, it feels more personal. Perhaps the nature of writing is to feel anxious.

Inky · Jul 15, 2007

I'm anal about the details; doesn't matter if it's a manuscript being sent to an agent, or a lipstick written love note on the mirror to my husband, it must be perfect!

popmuze · Jul 15, 2007

maestrowork said:
I don't think it's silly to want to do your best even if no one is ready to pay for it. And I don't think it's a good idea to present something half ass to an editor and to only revise it if the editor is ready to pay for it.

I'm just saying I write so much better when the money is on the table that I don't feel like writing at all when it isn't. I'm like a tenor sax player, let's say Sonny Rollins, who by this point in his career hates to practice, but really lets loose on stage.

I don't know if this applies, but I always wonder if the Beatles would have become the Beatles had they not become famous first. That is, would they have made Sergeant Pepper ten years later if they were still stuck in the slums of Berlin.

What I'm saying is, for some people, a little carrot from the right person goes a long way, and the lack of same just leads to creative starvation.

DamaNegra · Jul 15, 2007

There are other ways of getting positive feedback, though. You can get a beta reader or someone. More than the money, I think it's the "wow! you're great!" stuff that gets you moving. Or at least, it is with me. Finding recognition for our work, whatever the source, makes all our effort seem worthwhile. No recognition means we don't know if it's worth it, so it's harder to get the creative juices pumping.

popmuze · Jul 15, 2007

DamaNegra said:
There are other ways of getting positive feedback, though. You can get a beta reader or someone. More than the money, I think it's the "wow! you're great!" stuff that gets you moving.

To misquote Steely Dan: "They've been telling me I'm a genius ever since I was 17." At this point I'm like the guy in Jerry McGuire: "Show me the money."

I don't mind the occasional Beta reader: as long as they have the power to publish my stuff or give me money.

Inky · Jul 15, 2007

popmuze said:
To misquote Steely Dan: "They've been telling me I'm a genius ever since I was 17." At this point I'm like the guy in Jerry McGuire: "Show me the money."

I don't mind the occasional Beta reader: as long as they have the power to publish my stuff or give me money.

Um. WOW!

blacbird · Jul 15, 2007

popmuze said:
To misquote Steely Dan: "They've been telling me I'm a genius ever since I was 17." At this point I'm like the guy in Jerry McGuire: "Show me the money."

You might want to follow up with the rest of that Steely Dan verse:

"You wouldn't know a diamond if you held it in your hand,
The things you think are precious I can't understand."

caw

popmuze · Jul 15, 2007

blacbird said:
You might want to follow up with the rest of that Steely Dan verse:

"You wouldn't know a diamond if you held it in your hand,
The things you think are precious I can't understand."

caw

I would take Steely Dan's career any day of the week.

Esopha · Jul 15, 2007

Actually, I find negative feedback more helpful. It fills me with a desire to prove to the critic that they're dead wrong.

blacbird · Jul 15, 2007

popmuze said:
I would take Steely Dan's career any day of the week.

Me too. As long as I don't have to look like Don Fagen . . . oh, wait . . . I do sort of look like Don Fagen. Worst of all possible worlds, not to have Steely Dan's success, and still look like Don Fagen. Dam.

caw

popmuze · Jul 15, 2007

Hey, I would take Fagen's look in a minute. I think he looks kind of writery, the type of guy who'd have patches on the sleeves of his corduroy sports jacket as he smokes a pipe in his office conferencing with one luscious coed after another in his Bard writer-in-residency post.

I would take a Bard writer in residency post in a minute.
Or a corduroy sports jacket with patches on the sleeves.
Or the guitar solo in "Kid Charlemagne."
On the other hand, here I am living out "Charlie Freak."

Azraelsbane · Jul 15, 2007

Siddow said:
Crap. I'm just the opposite. I'm doomed.

Don't worry. I'm right there with you. :Hug2:

Though yesterday I did manage to take the first chapter of my newest manuscript to an anonymous critiquing session and got some glowing reviews. Actually my piece was the only one of the bunch on which the group made a point to say they wanted more. Now I'm all excited and feel like being productive. Maybe that's about the same thing.

CoriSCapnSkip · Aug 2, 2007

What are some ways to get motivation if you're not getting paid and have no deadline and no positive feedback and are sure no one gives a rap if you write or not?

Willowmound · Aug 2, 2007

inked09012 said:
I'm anal about the details; doesn't matter if it's a manuscript being sent to an agent, or a lipstick written love note on the mirror to my husband, it must be perfect!

Same. I even proof read my sms messages.

JohnDavidPaxton · Aug 2, 2007

As soon as I get some positive feedback, if I ever do, I'll let you know how that goes for me.

Shadow_Ferret · Aug 2, 2007

popmuze said:
I used to be able to write just for myself (about a hundred years ago) but ever since I started getting paid and published I find I write so much better under a contract or after some serious praise from an agent or an editor.

When I know someone has offered me money, my creative juices move into hyper drive. While, if I'm just writing on spec, I'm rarely motivated to produce my best stuff.

That's why I feel it's silly for me to revise my novel any longer or work on something new until I get feedback from an editor ready to pay for it. The quality of my writing is a hundred times better when I know it's being recognized.

Spec? Who writes fiction on spec?

And this sounds so convoluted to me. Why is an editor going to offer you money if it's not your best work?

scarletpeaches · Aug 2, 2007

I believe in writing your best when you're not getting paid for it - that way someday someone WILL want to pay you for it.

Doug Johnson · Aug 2, 2007

Writing is like sex; it's a lot less fun after turning pro.

NeuroFizz · Aug 2, 2007

I agree with Maestro and Scarlet. And I hope there is some tongue-in-cheek in this thread. Positive feedback is a great motivator, and I agree having a contract in hand is a rush. But that should never influence the quality of one's writing.

In biological systems, positive feedback is infrequently used (I can think of only two solid examples), and for good reason--it's dangerous. Once the feedback loop is started, there is no way to control it. While the parallels don't run so straight in applying this to writing, it seems there is a bit of that going on here. Some doorways may have to be widened to get a certain head through...

The message to most people here should be to always give your best effort because most of the fiction of beginning and emerging writers isn't sold before it is written.

MidnightMuse · Aug 2, 2007

I'm with the Ferret - I don't understand how someone's going to offer money for work that isn't already your absolute best. :Shrug:

Claudia Gray · Aug 2, 2007

Trust me, I love getting paid. It is a great motivator. But the most valuable positive feedback to me comes from people who are really engaged in the story I'm telling and who are sharing both what works for them and what doesn't; it's the combination of encouragement and a challenge to do better that really gets me to dive in and do those extra revisions, plot the next one, etc. That person can be my editor, or it can be a friend that I trust as a beta.

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