British public schools (Victorian era)

Saint Fool · Jul 14, 2007

I have a plot bunny but want to find out how squickable you think the back story would be.

Set in the 1880s, it's guy meets guy, guy loses guy, guy gets guy back . Victorian hypocrisy, clandestine meetings, a loveless marriage, men in drag, etc. etc. They are adults when they begin their relationship.

However, one of them was sent to a boarding school where he encountered what one Victorian author called "buggery." (From the reading I've done so far, sodomy was not uncommon at boys' schools during that time.) And, the school was where he learned that he liked having sex with men.

So - in flashback - if I'm Victorian enough in my choice of language - can I have my character briefly describe those early experiences and his first emotional relationship at the age of 16 (with a character who later becomes the antagonist) without having the reader go "No! No! No!" and hurling the book across the room?

The Victorian Age is fascinating what with tables and people having limbs instead of legs and yet they were a randy bunch - including women. I'd forgotten what fun research can be when it's something that interests me.

So any thoughts on dealing with school boy buggery are welcome.

veinglory · Jul 14, 2007

Well of course I'd read the book *for* that content (knowing the legal age in UK now is 16 and was probably something else). But watch your references. The table limbs thing is, as far as I know, widely reported by innaccurate. And the randiness was very different and highly uneven by class and other statuses. If you are after anything specifics I have a dozen of so reference books for the late Victorian period including some sexuality books.

Saint Fool · Jul 14, 2007

Thanks! I'd appreciate any titles/authors you can suggest. LOL, I thought legs/limbs was Victorian canon so obviously I've got my work cut out for me.

I've got a stack of English Victorian fiction on my desk that I'm reading to get a feel for language, customs, etc. My plan is to rough/first draft it in American and then go back and work on getting the language correct.

veinglory · Jul 14, 2007

I would recommend The Phoenix by Ruth Simms as a Victorian era set book about a gay romance with one of the pair married, etc.

kristie911 · Jul 14, 2007

The backstory wouldn't bother me at all...provided the original encounter (at the school) was more emotional rather than erotic. I don't know if that makes sense, so I'll try to explain. If you presented it as the reason the MC likes sex with men (or what showed him he liked it) rather than laying it out as an erotic encounter. If it was purely for erotic content, it might squick me out a little or at least put me off because I don't pick up erotic stories for that kind of content.

sunandshadow · Jul 14, 2007

No problem with school buggery - loveless marriage kinda squicks me though.

waylander · Jul 14, 2007

In public schools of the time it was pretty much universal practice for a senior boy (prefect) to have a junior boy run errands for him. This was called fagging. The senior boys would have rooms of their own and, as the prefects pretty much ran the discipline in the boarding house, these rooms would be totally private. So if a prefect takes a fancy to a pretty young boy then he would have space and opportunity. The main check on them would be other senior boys.
See Tom Brown's Schooldays for a picture of boarding school life in the early Victorian era, things hadn't changed much by the period you are talking about

AJ Clare · Jul 15, 2007

Sixteen wouldn't bother me - it's legal in Britain. In fact I think in the 1880's the age of consent was something terrifying like TWELVE, although I think it went up a year due to WT Stead's expose 'The Maiden Tribute To Modern Babylon' in around about 1885.

The Victorian period's very interesting, though. You might want to try looking up 'My Secret Life', the diary of a Victorian gent known only as 'Walter' who was...well,...er, let's say there wasn't much he didn't try in the course of his sexual adventures. Some of it is really quite unpalatable but I did find it useful in terms of finding out the contemporary sexual slang for various body parts and acts. It's worth Googling as an authentic primary source. As far as I know it's still online.

MarkEsq · Jul 16, 2007

I went to prep and boarding schools that were somewhat Victorian in style - canings and cold showers etc. I'd merely point out my experience which was that there existed a powerful anti-homosexual attitude. We had one kid whose mother was American and the poor chap was branded a homo and generally treated horribly for being semi-Yank. (You can imagine the lengths I went to in order to hide the fact that my own mother was American!).
Anyway, my point is that if someone thought you were gay or wanted to humiliate you, branding you a homosexual was the worst thing that could be pinned to you. I suppose that might make for some good tension in your story, the pull between the acceptable norm and the self.

oscuridad · Jul 16, 2007

remember that buggery and sodomy are two different things (one is done to a man the other to a woman but I can't remember which way around) - whatever, anal sex was a common form of contraception of the time.

could end up being a bit 'Brokeback Mountain' if you are not careful - a more interesting area would be the amazing hypocrisy around man sex in the forces and in the ghetto (homey-sexuals etc.) where it is not actually considered a gay activity at all as long as it is within the group. There was a great quote from a bruvva in New York saying he would have oral sex with other bruvvas but 'wouldn't have sex with no faggot'.

I would imagine books that deal with the buggerign of schoolboys would attract a fairly unnattractive segment of society as readers. Wouldn't touch such a thing with a bargepole myself. And no, not squeamish or prudish, but I am sensible of what I put into my head.

oscuridad · Jul 16, 2007

remember that buggery and sodomy are two different things (one is done to a man the other to a woman but I can't remember which way around) - whatever, it was a common form of contraception of the time.

could end up being a bit 'Brokeback Mountain' if you are not careful - a more interesting area would be the amazing hypocrisy around man sex in the forces and in the ghetto (homey-sexuals etc.) where it is not actually considered a gay activity at all as long as it is within the group. There was a great quote from a bruvva in New York saying he would have oral sex with other bruvvas but 'wouldn't have sex with no faggot'.

also the public school angle is a bit obvious

sunandshadow · Jul 16, 2007

Actually sodomy is specifically male but buggery is just a slang term for anal sex which can be done to either a man or a woman.

veinglory · Jul 16, 2007

Also during the Victoria era men were still homosocial--faggot wasn't the major insult used and romantic friendship was still around so men sharing a bed was no big thing.

oscuridad · Jul 22, 2007

sunandshadow said:
Actually sodomy is specifically male but buggery is just a slang term for anal sex which can be done to either a man or a woman.

aahh - knew it was something like that.

British public schools (Victorian era)

Saint Fool

veinglory

volitare nequeo

Saint Fool

veinglory

volitare nequeo

kristie911

Happy to be here

sunandshadow

Impractical Fantasy Animal

waylander

Who's going for a beer?

AJ Clare

Don't get me started

MarkEsq

Clever title pending.

oscuridad

oscuridad

sunandshadow

Impractical Fantasy Animal

veinglory

volitare nequeo

oscuridad