Trouble deciding on Protagonist

Bo Sullivan · Jul 8, 2007

I am writing a novel in the third person, about a Ballerina (Sophie Dunhill), who is being tutored at the school de Valois in 1940s London by Ninette de Valois. Sophie Dunhill will go on to dance with Margot Fonteyn at the re-opening of the Royal Opera House in a performance of Sleeping Beauty. There will be chapters dealing with ballet lessons etc.

There is another central character, Joseph Maddox, who works as a pointe shoe maker in St Martin's Lane, London, at the famous Freed ballet shoemakers. There will be a chapter dealing with the making of pointe shoes.

Joseph Maddox falls in love with Sophie Dunhill when she visits his shop to buy ballet shoes and from that point in the story Joseph becomes the central character when Sophie meets with an accident.

From the above I cannot decide who is the protagonist; can there be more than one, technically speaking? Or is that the wrong way to approach things?

If I decide that Joseph is the protagonist, must I start my first chapter with him?

I would be very grateful for any suggestions.

Thanks

Barbara

Bufty · Jul 8, 2007

Forgive me, but which of your characters' story do you think it is? And through whose POV do you feel it would best be told?

Bo Sullivan · Jul 8, 2007

Bufty said:
Forgive me, but which of your characters' story do you think it is? And through whose POV do you feel it would best be told?

Thank you for replying to me.

It is the story of Sophie Dunhill ballerina, but I cannot use her POV as she will meet with an accident at a later stage in the book. I guess you have answered my question and it must be told by Joseph Maddox.

Do you think I should switch to first person in that case?

I would be grateful for your opinion.

Thanks,

Barbara

Bufty · Jul 8, 2007

An accident - but she doesn't die apparently. You have answered your own question. And I cannot answer this next one for you. Do you feel you would be able to write it better and/or get the story or more emotion across better if it were told from a first person viewpoint as opposed to another?

Duped said:
Thank you for replying to me.

It is the story of Sophie Dunhill ballerina, but I cannot use her POV as she will meet with an accident at a later stage in the book. I guess you have answered my question and it must be told by Joseph Maddox.

Do you think I should switch to first person in that case?

Bo Sullivan · Jul 8, 2007

Bufty said:
An accident - but she doesn't die apparently. You have answered your own question. And I cannot answer this next one for you. Do you feel you would be able to write it better and/or get the story or more emotion across better if it were told from a first person viewpoint as opposed to another?

Thank you. I have just written a paragraph in first person, and checked it against what I wrote last night in third person. There seems to be more emotion in the first person paragraph. I will go ahead with that.

Thanks for your help.

Barbara

Bufty · Jul 8, 2007

Jolly good. You are welcome.

Next!

Duped said:
Thank you. I have just written a paragraph in first person, and checked it against what I wrote last night in third person. There seems to be more emotion in the first person paragraph. I will go ahead with that.

Thanks for your help.

Barbara

BlueTexas · Jul 8, 2007

You can have more than one protag, and more than one POV character.

Uncle Jim discusses this here: http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=83434#post83434

Bo Sullivan · Jul 8, 2007

BlueTexas said:
You can have more than one protag, and more than one POV character.

Uncle Jim discusses this here: http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=83434#post83434

Thanks I will check it out.

Barbara

Chasing the Horizon · Jul 8, 2007

Many stories have multiple protags and multiple POV characters. Sometimes you can point to one character who is the true MC, other times the story truly belongs to two or three main characters.

It sounds to me, from reading the description of your book, that you might be best served by having both Sophi and Joseph as POV characters. It looks to me like you have a strong romantic element and romances are always the story of two people, not one.

Anyway, that's just my free advice, which may well be worth exactly what you're paying for it.

Bo Sullivan · Jul 8, 2007

Can I still keep the third person opening chapter, which describes London and tells some of the history of Ninette de Valois? Then switch to writing in first person in the second chapter, or will that be confusing to the reader?

In fact can I switch from first to third throughout? Or is that lazy or too experimental? IE does it break rules?

Any comments gratefully received.

Thanks,

Barbara

Bo Sullivan · Jul 8, 2007

Hope To The Horizon said:
Many stories have multiple protags and multiple POV characters. Sometimes you can point to one character who is the true MC, other times the story truly belongs to two or three main characters.

It sounds to me, from reading the description of your book, that you might be best served by having both Sophi and Joseph as POV characters. It looks to me like you have a strong romantic element and romances are always the story of two people, not one.

Anyway, that's just my free advice, which may well be worth exactly what you're paying for it.

Thanks for that very expensive free advice.

Barbara

Chasing the Horizon · Jul 8, 2007

Duped said:
Can I still keep the third person opening chapter, which describes London and tells some of the history of Ninette de Valois? Then switch to writing in first person in the second chapter, or will that be confusing to the reader?

In fact can I switch from first to third throughout? Or is that lazy or too experimental? IE does it break rules?

Any comments gratefully received.

Thanks,

Barbara

I've read several novels that switched between first and third person depending on who's POV the chapter was in (one character got first, the others got third), and it seemed to work fine in those (sorry, can't remember the titles off the top of my head). It is harder to make this work than if you wrote the entire story in either first or third, but it's certainly possible.

I wouldn't have only the first chapter in third, though. This would seem to me like a writer taking the 'easy way' to introduce the setting, and would be more jarring as a reader than if the entire book switched back and forth.

BlueTexas · Jul 8, 2007

I think it's more common to stick to third throughout, just changing the POV from which the story is told.

That said though, I'm sure you can find a few examples of first/third switching. Seems to me that would be awfully difficult to do well - it might be making the process harder than it has to be.

Bo Sullivan · Jul 8, 2007

BlueTexas said:
I think it's more common to stick to third throughout, just changing the POV from which the story is told.

That said though, I'm sure you can find a few examples of first/third switching. Seems to me that would be awfully difficult to do well - it might be making the process harder than it has to be.

My problem is that Sophie might die later on in the book. So Joseph Maddox speaking in first, is telling the story of how he fell in love with Sophie, and his work as a pointe shoe-maker, and describing Sophie's initial reactions to him.

The story line comes from a short story I wrote, where Sophie dies quite suddenly and never wears the ballet shoes.

I don't know whether to let Sophie die or keep her in the story and have a happy ending. Which would appeal most to readers?

Thanks,

Barbara

BlueTexas · Jul 8, 2007

Duped said:
My problem is that Sophie might die later on in the book. So Joseph Maddox speaking in first, is telling the story of how he fell in love with Sophie, and his work as a pointe shoe-maker, and describing Sophie's initial reactions to him.

The story line comes from a short story I wrote, where Sophie dies quite suddenly and never wears the ballet shoes.

I don't know whether to let Sophie die or keep her in the story and have a happy ending. Which would appeal most to readers?

Thanks,

Barbara

That's the tricky part, deciding which way to go. It's your story; it's up to you to choose which ending fits it best. You really should read the Learn Writing with Uncle Jim thread - it's a fountain of knowledge and I'd bet what I just said came from there.

Bo Sullivan · Jul 8, 2007

BlueTexas said:
That's the tricky part, deciding which way to go. It's your story; it's up to you to choose which ending fits it best. You really should read the Learn Writing with Uncle Jim thread - it's a fountain of knowledge and I'd bet what I just said came from there.

Thanks.

FennelGiraffe · Jul 8, 2007

Duped said:
Can I still keep the third person opening chapter, which describes London and tells some of the history of Ninette de Valois? Then switch to writing in first person in the second chapter, or will that be confusing to the reader?

Are you sure that first chapter really belongs there at all? With what you have mentioned so far, it sounds like background instead of the beginning of the actual story.

You have any number of possibilities. You could decide to cut that chapter. You could find a way write it in Joseph's POV. You could decide to make it a prologue, which would make the POV difference less jarring. You could find other story elements best told in third, and alternate them with Joseph's POV throughout the book.

It may be wise to leave the first chapter as is for now and reassess after your first draft is complete. Your perspective will be different by then.

Still, it's your story to tell. The rest of us can only speak theoretically.

MelodyO · Jul 8, 2007

Off topic a little bit (since your questions seem to have been answered very capably already), but I don't want Sophie to die! I barely know the premise of your book and I'm already getting the tissues out.

So...good job.

Bo Sullivan · Jul 8, 2007

MelodyO said:
Off topic a little bit (since your questions seem to have been answered very capably already), but I don't want Sophie to die! I barely know the premise of your book and I'm already getting the tissues out.

So...good job.

Thank you; I will have a re-think. My son thought it was too sad as well. I don't want my potential readers to get too upset.

Barbara

Bo Sullivan · Jul 8, 2007

FennelGiraffe said:
Are you sure that first chapter really belongs there at all? With what you have mentioned so far, it sounds like background instead of the beginning of the actual story.

You have any number of possibilities. You could decide to cut that chapter. You could find a way write it in Joseph's POV. You could decide to make it a prologue, which would make the POV difference less jarring. You could find other story elements best told in third, and alternate them with Joseph's POV throughout the book.

It may be wise to leave the first chapter as is for now and reassess after your first draft is complete. Your perspective will be different by then.

Still, it's your story to tell. The rest of us can only speak theoretically.

I did think of a prologue but since the first chapter sets the scene in 1940s London and centres around Ninette de Valois, founder of the Royal Ballet School I thought it should introduce the book with her presence. Just a thought, since she has been Sophie Dunhill's tutor.

Thanks for your comments.

Barbara

ChaosTitan · Jul 8, 2007

BlueTexas said:
; it's up to you to choose which ending fits it best.

And also to figure out your genre. If you're writing a romance, Sophie and Joseph need a happy ending. If you're writing a love story, a tragic or bittersweet ending is just fine.

Bo Sullivan · Jul 8, 2007

ChaosTitan said:
And also to figure out your genre. If you're writing a romance, Sophie and Joseph need a happy ending. If you're writing a love story, a tragic or bittersweet ending is just fine.

It is the classic case of unrequited love at the moment, with a tragic ending in mind. I would love to give the book a happy ending, but my experience of life tells me that life is not like that.

Barbara

ChaosTitan · Jul 8, 2007

Life does, indeed, have tragedy. It also has joy, as well as many things in between. The great thing about fiction is that we are in control of the story and we can, if we so choose, give our characters happy endings. Good luck with whichever path you choose.

Bo Sullivan · Jul 8, 2007

ChaosTitan said:
Life does, indeed, have tragedy. It also has joy, as well as many things in between. The great thing about fiction is that we are in control of the story and we can, if we so choose, give our characters happy endings. Good luck with whichever path you choose.

Thank you. I am beginning to feel less morbid. I have read a lot of Thomas Hardy novels and his heros and heroines almost always meet with doom and gloom.

BlueTexas · Jul 8, 2007

Duped said:
Thank you; I will have a re-think. My son thought it was too sad as well. I don't want my potential readers to get too upset.

Barbara

If your readers aren't upset, somehow emotionally invested in the story, why are they reading it?

Just sayin' that sometimes good characters have to have bad things happen to make a story.

Trouble deciding on Protagonist

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