Discretionary unique name usership

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Eowyn Eomer

What kind of discretion should you use as an author when using rare names for characters?

For example, if I really liked the name Elrond which is a lesser character in Lord of the Rings and wanted to name my lead character of a fantasy novel that even though my novel was nothing like Lord of the Rings, would that be a good thing or would it give people reason to think I was trying to steal from another book? Because it is a unique name and not one we generally hear people called in the world today. Or another example, if I wanted to name my character Bastian which the only place I've ever heard that name is in The Neverending Story.
 

macalicious731

I think with something as popular as LotR, no matter how small the character, using that name in your novel will merely make the reader think of LotR all the time. You're basically getting into all of the preassociations that come with that name.

As for Neverending Story, it's not as popular, but still very well known. It just depends if you're okay with knowing your readers will enter your book thinking of another one. Other readers may be turned off by differences between the known character and your own; or they may be turned off just because you used the name.

It's all dependent on the reader and what they know.
 

pianoman5

I'm with mac. Unique names are always associated with the original characters, and I'm certain that your re-use of them would smack of unnecessary and inappropriate plagiarism. You'd do far better to think of your own, so that in future other writers will say of yours enviously, 'I wish I'd invented that name and character.'
 

katdad

Regardless of your fondness for some of these names, I'd recommend against using them, as they are common in two well known works of fiction, and as others have said, may bring up unwanted correspondences.

Just invent a similar-sounding name. And while we're at it, do you think it's wise to choose unfamiliar-sounding names for principal characters? Just asking.
 

Writing Again

Depends:

I would never use Elrond in a fantasy novel:

BUT,

As massively popular as LOTR is

I would not hesitate to name a modern day college kid in my novel Elrond.

"So, my parents were hung up on LOTR. I got a sister named Eowyn."
 

preyer

yep, a superlatively bad idea, i think, especially in a genre where you can make up any name you like. besides, when it comes to names, it's not really reasonable to compare yourself to tolkien who was so immersed in that kind of thing, creating complete languages and such. it's not fair to yourself and puts an undue burden on your shoulders. i used to steal fantasy names from places on a world map.
 

SFEley

Rules for character naming...
<OL>
<LI>Don't name characters after yourself or your friends. (The "Mary Sue" rule.)</LI>
<LI>Avoid random name generators, such as Web pages, Scrabble bags, baby name books, the phone book, or your friends' friends.</LI>
<LI>Don't name characters after your PC from the D&D game you've been playing for the last five years.</LI>
<LI>Unless you have a very good story-related reason, don't name characters after other characters in other books.</LI>
<LI>Even if you have a very good story-related reason, don't name characters after characters in The Lord of the Rings.</LI>
</OL>
So what's left? The empty space from which all creativity comes. What's left is only to examine the character you're describing and pull a name from thin air. If you're a writer, you ought to be capable of inventing.
 

Writing Again

The problem with any set of hard and fast rules is that every rule anyone ever came up with has, can, and will be, broken successfully by someone.
 

Eowyn Eomer

Don't name characters after yourself or your friends. (The "Mary Sue" rule.)
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I don't know. If it's a good character, a hero, noble, all of that, it could make that person feel honored. :) I think the idea is, know your friends.

I wouldn't name a character my name unless I was writing a story about my life and wanted the reader to connect my character with me the author. But my life is way too boring to write about. I'd have to jazz it up a lot. :p

Avoid random name generators, such as Web pages, Scrabble bags, baby name books, the phone book, or your friends' friends.
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I've not used generators, although I don't see what's wrong with that, although the only ones I know about are set up for already fictional works so that might not work too well. I have used, however, baby naming web sites if I'm trying to think of a character name and I want the name of the character to have a significant meaning. So I look up meanings of names. Like if I want to name a character who will be a leader, I might name him Alex. Although with Alexander the Great coming to theaters, that's probably not a good name to choose for that.

I sometimes wonder if you could choose a common name and ascribe a totally different meaning, your own meaning, to it.

Don't name characters after your PC from the D&D game you've been playing for the last five years.
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After your PC? I think it would be kinda weird to read a story and your lead character's name is Gateway. Dell is actually a name and you might get away with it.

What is D&D?

Unless you have a very good story-related reason, don't name characters after other characters in other books.
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Stupid rule. :bang

Even if you have a very good story-related reason, don't name characters after characters in The Lord of the Rings.
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I think you made that up just for me. :wha
 

SFEley

Writing Again wrote:
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>The problem with any set of hard and fast rules is that every rule anyone ever came up with has, can, and will be, broken successfully by someone. <hr></blockquote>

What about that one? >8->

Seriously, my little whimsy above may be fast, but it certainly wasn't intended to be hard. I have seen all of those done, though, most often to the detriment of the story. (I won't admit to the ones I've committed myself.)
 

SFEley

Eowyn Eomer wrote:
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>After your PC? I think it would be kinda weird to read a story and your lead character's name is Gateway. Dell is actually a name and you might get away with it.

What is D&D?
<hr></blockquote>
PC: Player Character. D&D: Dungeons & Dragons. If you don't know it, then never mind.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I think you made that up just for me.<hr></blockquote>
Can't imagine why you'd think so, Eowyn Eomer. >8->

Although if it makes you feel any better, I have a minor character in my book named Thorin Denhill. A couple of beta readers pointed out that Thorin was the name of one of the dwarves in The Hobbit, which I had completely forgotten about, and advised changing it on that basis. I decided to leave it as is until an editor tells me to change it.

(I did, however, change the name of the kingdom of Midden once I made the connection to the archaic definition of that word.) >8->
 

Terra Aeterna

I did, however, change the name of the kingdom of Midden once I made the connection to the archaic definition of that word.
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Heee! It would be so tempting to leave the kingdom named Midden if it was the low rent kingdom next door to the main kingdom just to see if anyone noticed.
 

PixelFish

Even if you have a very good story-related reason, don't name characters after characters in The Lord of the Rings.

Unless you are Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman, who named a character Pippin Galadriel Moonchild, or Pepper for short.
 

SFEley

PixelFish wrote:
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Unless you are Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman, who named a character Pippin Galadriel Moonchild, or Pepper for short. <hr></blockquote>

Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman aren't going to be posting here asking for writing advice. >8->

Matt Ruff broke the rule too, in Fool on the Hill. He had a fraternity called Tolkien House, with several elf-named characters and a forest in the basement. That was one minor detail in an amazing, beautiful book. If he'd had to ask what was acceptable, he could probably never have written it.
 

pianoman5

Ironic references to existing names are always Ok, as long as the basis for them is explained. But a chartered accountant named Elrond Ramsbottom?

I've heard of a guy named Bill Bowtell. I've often wondered if he gets mail addressed to Bilbo Tell.
 

Vanessa99

I love the lord of the rings names. I named a horse in my novel Elessar which I think is ok because the horse doesn't rule the herd or anything. He pretty much just eats grass. And the story takes place in the nineties. I can change it if it is an issue.
I'd like to add rule no. 6

6. Don't name your characters with names that sound like their personality straights in an obvious, corny way. A mean girl called Mena. A victorious person called Victor. IMO its lame.
 

Eowyn Eomer

Victor is a pretty common name. I don't think most people would connect it to the character being victorious unless you wrote something like, "Victor was victorious." Although that sounds kinda cute, I think.

Is Mena a real name? I've heard Meena as a nickname for Mia.

Actually, that could work. Make your mean girl's name Mia and those who don't like her call her Meana because she's so mean. I could see it working as a nickname by kids who don't like the mean girl.
 

SFEley

Eowyn Eomer wrote:
Is Mena a real name? I've heard Meena as a nickname for Mia.
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Mina Harker is the chief female character in Dracula. This actually sets a precedent for reuse, if you suppose Bram Stoker stole the name because he was a fan of Alan Moore's The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. >8->
 

James D Macdonald

"Mina" is a nickname. The character's full name is Wilhelmina Harker.
 

Vanessa99

Mena is a real name. I used it for a main character of mine. She was mean character, everyone told me to change it because it was too obvious. A mean girl called Mena. So I've been using Mena anyways and I will just change it to Sheena when Im finished. I can't picture my character as anything other than Mena while Im writing. It wasn't intentional to call her Mena and have her be mean either, just turned out that way. Is it true that you can replace a name wherever it appears in a document with just one move in Microsoft Word? That would be a time saver.
 

Writing Again

Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman aren't going to be posting here asking for writing advice. >8->
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But we don't really know, do we?

If I grand slammed a novel would I lose my interest in these forums? I discover ideas here, I learn things here, I form opinions here. I think I would still hang around.

As I write under pen names you would not know. Nor would I tell you.

If for some reason I wanted forum residents to treat me as someone who had written a best seller, then I would rejoin using the pen name. But I really can't think of a reason I would want to be anything other than what I am--Just another goofy guy on the boards.
 

Risseybug

I actually used names of people I know in my first book. Not their real names. I know these people as belonging to the Society for Creative Anachronism. I used their SCA names, because I needed medieval sounding names. I did not use someone I know for the villain.

Only people who know me and know that I know those people (did you get all that) would recognize them. Like the people who own the names, if they happen to read the book. And I think I used them all in a flattering light. But most of them are common period names, so...
 

Writing Again

I have a friend; he has been to jail a few times in real life; who would love for me to use him as a villain. Is ready to sign an OK any time I ask him to. He does not care what the bad guy does so long as "He is a real bad guy, not a wussy wannabe bad guy."

Of course I don't think he wants to be depicted as a child molester or a rapist, but a bank robber, mad bomber, or serial killer, and he would buy a dozen copies and brag about it.
 
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