Is it ok to make a male hero sensitive?

[ChrisW42660]

I have two heroes in my novel and one is a very kind, sensitive young man. He is not afraid to express his feelings of caring towards his mentally ill sibling and is affectionate with his wife and kids. He is also kind of a wuss, and it comes back to bite him in the butt, so to speak. Is it ok to make a male character sensitive and loving, without the rough stuff, or is it just more appealing to make him tough? He tends to hold in his anger, but does explode when he finally can't keep it in any longer, but is clearly a lover, not a fighter.

The other hero is fighting a serious mental illness that was never treated and was misdiagnsoed. He is usually pretty tough and gets into a lot of fights, but, when he is forced to talk to a Psychiatrist about some of the things he has done, he does break down and cry. Is that too feminine? I ask because somebody brought both of these issues to my attention.

Thoughts?

[drgnlvrljh]

I think it makes your characters more human, IMO. I asked advice on roughing mine up, because most of the males I wrote were sensitive, and caring, etc. And in this story, I need something more macho (I guess that word would work).

But I would say the same advice I got makes sense for you, too. Listen to your characters. IS this what they're telling you? If so, go for it.

My problem was more along the lines of lack of experience (or perhaps confidence), and I was holding back.

[ChrisW42660]

I SAW your post and was reading the responses...lol. They were pretty good. My one character, who is mentally ill, has a very rough demeaner. It's his fraternal twin brother, who puts his marriage on the line to try to save him, who is overly sensitive, maybe too much for a man. I wanted to see what others thought. I have no trouble making my characters swear, fight, draw blood, etc. if I have to do it, but this young man is just very nice and caring. Although it embarasses him to talk about his feelings towards his twin, he does do it, which is maybe a feminine trait???? I don't know how readers would take this.

[Nateskate]

The idea works if you point out the strengths of what some might consider a weakness, or the complexity in which sensitivity is not a sign of weakness at all.

You can have strong men who are still sensitive. However, there is an emasculated man which is not really a matter of sensitivity, but of weakness and intimidation.

[Writing Again]

think part of the problem is that much of the old stereotype still exists in the mind: Sensitive man = Wuss without manhood.

I remember a story my father in law told about WWII. They were in a foxhole together. This soldier had fought his way through the enemy lines in order to drag his wounded friend to safety. By any standards a hero. My father in law kept watch while the medics did their job and the rescuer rested.

When my father in law looked down he saw the soldier who had shown so much bravery was crying. "What is wrong?" he asked, "Are you hurt?"

"No," was the reply, "I'm just so homesick."

[Jamesaritchie]

When my father in law looked down he saw the soldier who had shown so much bravery was crying. "What is wrong?" he asked, "Are you hurt?"

"No," was the reply, "I'm just so homesick."

I had a seventh grader art teacher who had been in the war, and he used to tell us the story of a tank commander who, after a long, fiece tank battle in a driving rain that churned everything to barren mud, suddenly ordered his tank to turn sharply into away from the easy path and into a field of mud where he might easily be bogged down and destroyed by enemy artillery.

He said when they looked to see what made him turn, thinking there was probably an exposed anti-tank mine in his path, all they saw was a small bunch of flowers that had somehow made it through the battle undisturbed.

[mr mistook]

There really is a double standard at work in society with regard to gender bending. It's perfectly okay, even celebrated to have a strong female.

Fem characters can fight, they can shoot guns, work on machinery, love sports, save peoples butts, smoke cigars, and do essentially anything they want. At the very same time they can cry, raise babies, cook, and tend to a garden.

There is *some* precident for males to show just as much universal humanity, but for the most part, this is actively played down.

The best *sensitive* male characters are always endowed with great intellect, or brooding mystery. I know this will sound cheesy, but think of Peter Parker (Spider Man). He cares about people. He has a heart. He's good with children. He's strong and heroic, but agile, quick-witted, and sensitive.

Another example would be the more mysterious vampire type androgynous guys. Such a character can be squarely on masculine footing, but irresistable to women because of his enigmatic feline qualities.

Another example is the studious professor/librarian type. Think of Indiana Jones when he's teaching that class with his glasses. Like Clark Kent, he seems a little shy and klutzy, but little do they know.

[Gala]

Chris,
Do you know why your character is the way he is?

Perhaps you're familiar with personality quadrants. They basic for are supporter, controler, analyzer, and promoter. The four overlap, or in some cases are doubled.

Your char seems strong on supporter. Some controllers pretend to be nice, but it's not the same. A true supportive personality manifests strengs in empathy, compassion, putting others first, seeing the needs of people others might be oblivious to.

The down side, as you've mentioned, is they can be a wuss and get their behind kicked.

OR
Did your char evolve his supportive personality? Perhaps he had polio as a child, and every time he sees someone limp he feels for them. Or maybe his mother abused him, and it taught him compassion. (Like David Peltzer, author of A Child Called It.
OR
He's a wuss through and through and the kind behaviour is actually a way to manipulate his environment.

There are many possiblilities as to why. I don't have any problem with your character. I think author Wally Lamb has a strong supportive personality, and it shows in his writing.

Good luck with your character. Keep in mind your readers will respond according to their personal context. If they say, "he's too feminine" are they saying it from an emotional reaction? That's good; you want readers to get emotional. But if they're saying it because they are bored, or just don't like those kinds of men and wouldn't read the book, well maybe they aren't the audience you are writing for anyway.

I can't read books with weak female characters. Especially those who are dependant--won't read those books unless there's hope she'll get offed. That's my context.

If there's hope your man will evolve past wuss, or the butt kicking is funny, or it moves the story to a place I like, I don't mind if he's got some sensitivity. He might even be a fine lover, cook, and sewer and I'd be happy.

Good luck.

[Jamesaritchie]

I've always thought Robert B. Parker's Spesen is a great balance between toughness and sensitivity. He's as tough and hardboiled as they come, but he also quotes poetry, cooks fine meals, loves his dog, and is highly sensitive with his lady.

[James D Macdonald]

Your best characters all have a mix of redeeming virtues and tragic flaws. Go with what your story requires.

[maestrowork]

What Uncle Jim said.

I hate stereotypes. I'm sorry, but I do. The sensitive guy = wuss or guys must be tough BS irks me. Can't we for once have a sensitive nice guy who can also be rough and tough when faced with a situation or a decision? Can't we have a tough guy who's also soft with women, children and animals? Can't we have a straight guy who's not afraid of his feelings and who doesn't ignore his grooming? Can't we have a gay guy who's rough, tough and heroic?

If you find yourself writing stereotypes, change!

[novelator]

My toughest characters cry. We all cry, inside or out, man or woman. We all suffer to some degree, whether that's the face we show the world or not. It only stands to reason that our characters, who to most of us are as real as any person walking the face of the earth, should possess the same mix of traits in proportions unique to themselves, just as we are each different from each other.

Just my two centavos here.

Mari

[D James]

There is a point where it gets annoying to read sensitivity in a male character. For example, go see the move "Alexander the Great". It got to the point where he was such a whiny, tantrum throwing child that I would have rather followed his Mom into battle than him.

Then again you have Braveheart. Definitely a man in touch with his emotions but still a strong male hero.

As Jim said, it all depends on what works for your story. Stereotyping rarely does.

The Other James

[maestrowork]

Well, sensitive and whiny are two different things for me. I think most sensitive men cry alone, in private.

[ChrisW42660]

Well, my character grew up with a very disturbed brother who adored him, and his parents threw them together all the time because the mentally ill child would calm down around his brother. The "sensitive" brother grew old before his time, and became more like a parent to his brother than a brother, and spent his life protecting him and trying to get him help. His wife is tired of his trying to save this brother, since he is doing nothing to help himself and the young man is torn. He became the way he is basically because he was always good-natured and because his parents put the responsibility of his twin on him, and the bond is very strong. I *want* him to be sensitive and a little wussy, but not whiney. Working on toughening him up and giving him more of a backbone. I really liked the comments I got here. I especially liked the one about how a strong man would cry, but only by himself. So true! However, this character doesn't cry. He doesn't show much emotion. It's the stronger character, who is mentally ill, who finally breaks down when he is stuck in a hospital, against his will, and is forced to finally get help. The only one he loses it in front of is his Psychiatrist and his brother. Not like he goes bawling all over the hospital...lol. That wouldn't work for Jeremy. He likes to project a macho image.

[vstrauss]

>>Is that too feminine? I ask because somebody brought both of these issues to my attention.<<

I suspect the problem lies with your reader, not your characters.

- Victoria

[ChunkyC]

However, this character doesn't cry. He doesn't show much emotion. It's the stronger character, who is mentally ill, who finally breaks down
I think this is great because it goes against the stereotype, and don't we want to surprise our readers? I think you're on the right track.

[mr mistook]

If you find yourself writing stereotypes, change!


One of my main characters is a female private detective. I've always wanted to write a female character that was tough, and who could fight.

Then Buffy the Vampire Slayer came along! :(

Now I have to worry about the "buffy" stereotype. Tough girls are everywhere these days. I'm mad, because in my mind, I thought of it first!

Anyway, In an effort to distinguish her, she's become very butch and cynical. That in turn leads to the danger of her being too much like a guy.

It's a fine line.

[maestrowork]

I think when you have extremes you run the risk of stereotypes. You know, either the "romantic princess" or "butch bitch" female or the "sensitive wuss/gay" or "macho he-man" alpha male. But look around you... real people around us usually don't fit into a single stereotype... they may look tough and rough on the outside, but I bet if you get to know them, they're very 3-dimensional, with a full spectrum of emotions, vulnerability, strengths, etc. So when you write a character with fully developed emotional life, you will create a real, non-stereotypical character even if on the surface he looks like one of those...

[HConn]

Chris, don't worry about what's "okay" and what isn't. Do what you think is right. Don't look to others for this kind of guidance. Be bold! Take chances! Take charge of your work.

Strangers on a message board will never know what's right for your work. Only you will. Site link removed per request of other site's WebmasterYou're the expert.

Note: much of the content of that link doesn't apply, but much does.

Good luck.

[Gala]

Chris,
Based on your initial synopsis of your character, I had made up all kinds of factoids about him.

Many you filled in later, describing his childhood. I had imagined that kind of bacground!

I like your char and would want to read him. Keep going.

(my context is I had a mentally ill brother who died in May. However, he was not nice or loving.)

Your brothers remind me of the two in Stephen King's The Tommyknockers. The young one adores his older brother. And then the older brother makes him disappear...for real. I don't have the book to give you the page number, but if you look through titles of the sections you can find it by the boy's name.

Thanks for sharing your characters.

[ChrisW42660]

Gala, thank you. I have bipolar disorder which was misdiagnosed and undiagnosed for years, so I based my main hero on myself, although I gave him a much tougher time than I had. And I wish I'd had an understanding sibling...lol.

I love sensitive men, so I have to be careful not to make them too feminine for the average reader. As I rewrite, I am toughening up Jordan, the twin brother, so he doesn't come across as too wussy to be likeable.

ALthough I'm far from finished with polishing this novel, I'll be happy to send a chapter to show you what I mean by making him too soft. I'm very shy about sharing my work, but what the heck...lol.

If you want to swap stories, I'm at psm0904@gmail.com

[drgnlvrljh]

Chris, if you're willing, I'd be happy to swap with you, since I'm having the problem of roughing up mine, and you're wanting to sensitize yours w/o him being too wimpy. ;)

Maybe it would be to our mutual benefit?

my email is drgnlvr at cox dot net.

[ChrisW42660]

We could certainly try! LOL. You have my e-mail. Send me a chapter, I'll send you one. If we want to keep doing it, we can! If not, no hard feelings! Remember, I'm still in the "draft" stage.

[drgnlvrljh]

Works for me! I'm still in the draft stage, myself.

[Flawed Creation]

"is it okay to make a male hero sensitive?"


yes.



first of all, it's easier now than ever before to break established gender stereotypes. second, there are plenty of established hero archetypes besides the ultra-violent action hero.


consider, for instance, the classic high fantasy hero. this is as young village boy who, despite a sense that he is meant for greater things, is usually quite content with village life.

far from being filled with rage, he usually quails at the thought of violence. even as time passes and he grows acoostumed to fighting, he generally preserves that compassion and respect for life which he began with. this can bring him into conflict with real warrios annd knights, but it often proves his most important quality.

or consider mytholgical figures. although usually men of decisive action, mythical heroes are certainly quite emotional. there are plenty of stories of all-consuming love, spurring men to undertake such trisals as Orpheus' journey to the underworld.


finally, i would like to point out that Harry Pooter, that popular figure, is in no way "macho"

[Writing Again]

If you look back on the history of writing and telling stories I think it has always been about breaking stereotypes.

The Sword of Damocles was a quick simple tale that challenged the idea that tyrants have an easy life.

[Gala]

Chris,
I've e-mailed you.

To readers here:
Books on bi-polar and depression:
Kay Redfield Jamison wrote one on her bi-polar experience.

Andrew Soloman wrote Noonday Demon, award winning, beautifully written on uni-polar. Never read such apt description of the worst depression (which I experienced much of my life) as in the early pages. Even Stryron's book doesn't touch it as deeply.

Wally Lamb's I know this much is true novel of twins, one schizo. Much as I like Lamb's work, never made it far in this book because my brother schizo, and I don't like to dwell there.

Sorry for typos, I must rush. Info is accurate.

Cheers. <img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/glasses.gif" />

[luckky one]

I think sensivity is the toughest thing anyone can be. Even tougher for men. So, Chris, for the character you're writing, I think he is tougher than any 'uber macho' stud, to be so willing to give up so much for his family.

If he's not whiney, he's not a wussy. He practices restraint. Restraint is a sign of maturity, not fear.

He sounds responsible, and sensible. He's the epitome family man.

Try to keep in mind though, a lot of women, especially if this woman has a lower amount of education then he, you are right to believe his wife would grow tired of his devotion to his brother, and likely to get upset, possibly exploding. A contrast could include a scene where she is yelling at him for not doing something, and he simply stands there, soaking it all in, but not budging an inch, or shedding a tear. of course, while she is yelling, he could already be planning how to remedy it, but it won't come full circle till the end, maybe. This kind of emotional distance is very frustrating in a romantic relationship. Keep this in mind.

[triceretops]

Sensitivity is what makes the male lead three dimensional.
What I can't stand is when the male lead shows a softer spot and then bang! Takes it back. Or is embarrassed by it. Or
finally does it begrudgingly, like Bruce Willis in WATERWORLD.
Or makes it look like a mistake. Or outright denies it. Or lies
about it, letting someone else take the "good" blame. This
"taking it back" quality can be endearing at times but I think it's used ad nausea in many books and films It's as though
the male script writers, themselves, are queasy about showing
a lasting vulnerability in their male leads, especially in front of
women.
Paul Hogan, in LIGHTENING JACK, spends half the movie denying or hiding the fact that he has any kind or susceptible
features at all. In camouflaging his true inner self he leaves me with the impression that he's narcissistic, dumb, and an insecure little boy.
Scenario:
Wife comes into the living room and finds her football star husband playing with the kitten. "Are you playing with tootsie?" the wife asks.
"Nay, I was just checking her for injuries," he says.
Yeah, right. And you see this all too often. Let's make him sensitive for just a moment then take it back as fast as we can because, actually, we're uncomfortable with it. Peter Parker is a great example of letting go of that macho double standard. He REALLY felt, and we were allowed to feel along with him.

Triceratops

[mr mistook]

What I can't stand is when the male lead shows a softer spot and then bang! Takes it back. Or is embarrassed by it.


Heheh... for some reason this caused me to think of The Fonz when he tries to admit he was wrong...

"I was wr-wr-wr..h. I was wr-wr-wr...h!"

:lol

[maestrowork]

What I can't stand is when the male lead shows a softer spot and then bang! Takes it back. Or is embarrassed by it.

It could happen... heck, it happens to me all the time. I'm like a @#%$ cat with a soft belly but once I show you my belly, I flip over again and run... may hiss! Buyer beware.