A question about editing

c.e.lawson · Jun 28, 2007

Hello all of you wise and seasoned writers,

I have recently started writing a novel. At this point I'm completing the last scene of chapter 1, although it's still pretty rough. About four years ago, after fifteen years establishing myself in another career, I began to take writing seriously again. I have been working closely with writing friends on line, in both a writing group situation as well as more close work with a particularly favorite writing "buddy" with whom I exchange more consistent editing help.

I am a very linear writer - I start with chapter one and go in order to the end of my story, unless the <I>occasional</I> future scene is just BEGGING me to write it and I'm feeling stuck where I am. That's just the way my mind works, and since I emphasize characterization, it helps me to understand my characters' motivations if I know all that they've done before a particular scene comes up.

My question is this:

Should I give my writing buddy each successive chapter for an initial critique as I complete it? Not for a line by line edit, of course, but more for pacing/plot/characterization and stylistic issues. These chapters will be polished to a certain degree, but not completely polished, as I have a some historical detail I will need to add in later, and of course things change as the story grows. I've found, however, during my last two novel length stories and a few short stories I've written, that the big picture doesn't change all that much from the general outline that I have in my head when I begin.

I've read advice from experienced, published writers that one should complete the entire story and revise, revise, revise, and only then should you show it to someone else for editing.

Any thoughts?

Thanks so much,

c.e.

Azure Skye · Jun 28, 2007

c.e.lawson said:
I've read advice from experienced, published writers that one should complete the entire story and revise, revise, revise, and only then should you show it to someone else for editing.

Any thoughts?

Thanks so much,

c.e.

There's your answer. Finish first, revise, send out to others when you feel it's ready or when you've pulled all of your hair out in frustration -- whichever comes first.

reenkam · Jun 28, 2007

Azura Skye said:
There's your answer. Finish first, revise, send out to others when you feel it's ready or when you've pulled all of your hair out in frustration -- whichever comes first.

Hm, I actually disagree. I had a writing parter (aka a really nice english teacher from my high school) who would read each chapter as I wrote it every day. It was actually really, really helpful because she'd write comments about the characters and what was happening in each chapter. That way I could bring things up or play them down, etc. For example, she found one character to be particularly interesting and I was planning on getting ride of her soon, but I increased her part in the whole story because she was likeable. In the end the ideas that came up with her included turned out to be better than when she wasn't.

So I think it really depends on you/the work. I've done this three times (one full ms and two 1/2 mss) all with the same reader and it was great. With another project I finished and then had people read...I got no helpful feedback. This obviously has something to do with the people reading, but I think I do like the chapter-by-chapter method.

Also, it's a good way to gauge you suspense/making the reader care. If the reader starts asking questions before the next chapter is read you know you've done your job.

Scrawler · Jun 28, 2007

I think you should do what works best for you, and experiment until you find what works. Try giving your writing buddy each chapter, and see how you both feel about it. I'm not sure if critiquing so early in the process is a good idea for me, but see if that works for you.

BlueTexas · Jun 28, 2007

Right now, I'm in the middle of writing a novel. My writing group sees it a chapter at a time - I'm writing two chapters ahead of what they're read. Even though they're seeing the first draft (and boy does that feel naked!!) it's very helpful for me getting a handle on the story itself. The things they ALL don't get I know are fuzzy, the characters they ask about are the ones I know are interesting enough. It's the questions they ask that help me the most, help me see which direction is making the most sense and what parts are confusing the heck out of them.

I find it invaluable. But, it may not work for you. There's one way to find out.

johnzakour · Jun 28, 2007

Personally, I don't let my editors, agent or publishers see any manuscript until I feel I've done all I can with it.

Dave.C.Robinson · Jun 28, 2007

The big issue with editing and showing an unfinished work is that for many it changes structurally once it's completed. It's only possible to do line edits until you know the story as a whole and not everyone does before they've finished the first draft.

Siddow · Jun 28, 2007

I meet up with a local writer and we're just the opposite of each other. She likes to get feedback early, needs encouragement to continue on a project. I can't show anything to anyone until I feel it is DONE, done in the sense that I'd actually send it to an editor. If someone had something discouraging to say about a WIP (even a misplaced comma comment), I tend to go all, "It's crap! I can't finish this! Why even bother! Commas? I can't even get something like commas right! Lawd, I'm stupid, and worthless and should just go crawl in a hole somewhere and DIE."

However, crits on a finished piece, even really harsh ones, are golden to me. Love them.

Just figure out what works for you. It took me a while to figure out what works for me.

Jamesaritchie · Jun 28, 2007

Manuscript

The trouble with letting people see anything that isn't finished is that you're very likely to write the novel they want, the way they want it, rather than writing the novel you want, and that the story and characters should have. A good way to finish a novel, maybe, but a terrible way to finish a publishable novel. I think it's always a horrible idea.

JoNightshade · Jun 28, 2007

Doesn't matter. Do what you want to do.

Tasmin21 · Jun 28, 2007

I have one reader who sees absolutely everything the moment it spews out of my head. Then I do basic editing/refining and move on with the story. The rest of my readers don't get to see things until I have a large chunk (multiple chapters) for them to read at one time. It's easier for them to tell me how the work is flowing as a whole, that way.

sunandshadow · Jun 29, 2007

I have found that if I'm in the mood to keep writing the story, getting feedback on earlier parts only distracts and sometimes even demotivates me. On the other hand if I'm stuck on what to write next that's when feedback can be really helpful, as long as it's more of the discussion kind rather than the find typos kind.

Kalthandrix · Jun 29, 2007

I am only now working on my first novel, but of the short stories I have done (a paltry two but better than nothing) I have sent my material to some friends of mine to proof and aid me with the editing only when they were complete, but still at a stage where I had not done a lot of self editing. I realize now that I relied too much upon them to catch my errors and did not read my material as hard as I should have.

While I crave feedback on my current endeavor (I am a needy writer – go figure), I have refrained from sending any of my chapters to be read until I have had the chance to put them through at least two solid rounds of editing by me to tighten up and cover some re-writing and to catch my more common errors (darn all then / than issues and hyphens!). I try and make notes as I go in my hand-written draft where I feel something is exceptionally weak and to come back later to fix it (later as in after the whole draft is complete). This allows me to keep moving forward with the story and to not have to “switch hats” (go from a creative writing mindset to a more analytical one needed for editing).

mscelina · Jun 29, 2007

I'm part of an extremely supportive critique group. In my dark fantasy WIP, they got the chapters just as soon as I finished typing them. Why? Because I wanted--NEEDED--to make sure that the story worked. Grammatical nits aside, it was important for me make sure that my complicated and extremely deceptive plotline was coming through. Every writer has his/her own preferences and comfort levels and that's something that you'll determine on your own. For me it depends on the the project (no one reads my commercial lit WIP until I think it's done) and whole secure I feel with my crit group as a whole.

preyer · Jun 29, 2007

while there are a lot of caveats involved with getting a critique early, especially for some new writers who take things to heart, at the same time if you're making a lot of rookie mistakes, it's best to know that stuff as soon as possible before having to correct that throughout a 150,000 word beast (though i'm sure they'll never make those mistakes again, lol). for intermediate writers, i assume the caveats are well known and the craft is there enough to where massive rewrites aren't needed. in that case, to each their own, but for the most part i think finishing first is the best path for most of us.

as for being linear, well, some people write like that, some don't. if you don't want to be linear, that's what editing is partially for, arrangement, eh? personally, my preference isn't quite so much for perfectly linear stories, but that's a helluva lot better than huge info-dumps and seemingly random chapters of flashbacks.

c.e.lawson · Jun 29, 2007

Thank you.

Thanks to everyone for their thoughtful replies. I suppose it's really a combination of my needs and my relationship with my beta reader that determines what is right for me. I wanted to clarify the problems with sending her chapters early, and the gist of what I understand is the danger of me changing my story for someone else's expectations, as well as my beta doing needless work for things that would change anyway after I put the entire thing together and revise the heck out of it. Valid points, all.

Thanks again,

c.e.

job · Jun 29, 2007

Comment on the work during the writing process ... it'd just annoy me or distract me.

I do like to talk over plot sometimes, to make sure I haven't left logical holes,
so I understand the need to communicate.

If you're learning from your crit partner's comments or you're 'brainstorming' or you're enjoying the social interaction .. heck. I don't see a problem.

Geist · Jun 29, 2007

c.e.lawson said:
Hello all of you wise and seasoned writers,

I have recently started writing a novel. At this point I'm completing the last scene of chapter 1, although it's still pretty rough. About four years ago, after fifteen years establishing myself in another career, I began to take writing seriously again. I have been working closely with writing friends on line, in both a writing group situation as well as more close work with a particularly favorite writing "buddy" with whom I exchange more consistent editing help.

I am a very linear writer - I start with chapter one and go in order to the end of my story, unless the <I>occasional</I> future scene is just BEGGING me to write it and I'm feeling stuck where I am. That's just the way my mind works, and since I emphasize characterization, it helps me to understand my characters' motivations if I know all that they've done before a particular scene comes up.

My question is this:

Should I give my writing buddy each successive chapter for an initial critique as I complete it? Not for a line by line edit, of course, but more for pacing/plot/characterization and stylistic issues. These chapters will be polished to a certain degree, but not completely polished, as I have a some historical detail I will need to add in later, and of course things change as the story grows. I've found, however, during my last two novel length stories and a few short stories I've written, that the big picture doesn't change all that much from the general outline that I have in my head when I begin.

I've read advice from experienced, published writers that one should complete the entire story and revise, revise, revise, and only then should you show it to someone else for editing.

Any thoughts?

Thanks so much,

c.e.

I agree with the experienced, published writer's. Otherwise, if you're writing buddy is so good at revising and editing your work, I'd rather read his.

Everyone needs help with final proofreading, but rough draft, revision, and editing the work to its fruition is a writer's job.

A question about editing

c.e.lawson

Azure Skye

Huh?

reenkam

aka cupcake

Scrawler

Bored fanatic

BlueTexas

Back from self-exile land.

johnzakour

Dangerous with a Keyboard

Dave.C.Robinson

... with the High Command

Siddow

I'm super! Thanks for asking

Jamesaritchie

JoNightshade

has finally arrived

Tasmin21

They will come from below...

sunandshadow

Impractical Fantasy Animal

Kalthandrix

Awesomeness on Tap!

mscelina

Teh doommobile, drivin' rite by you

preyer

excessively spartan

c.e.lawson

job

In the end, it's just you and the manuscript

Geist