Hardback and paperback

Southern_girl29 · Jun 28, 2007

Ok, I'm a little confused on something. I've heard people say they sold the paperback rights for their book, but some books automatically come out in hardcover and then in paperback. So, do separate publishing companies hold the rights to the hardcover and paperback? Do some publishing companies just put the book out in hardcover first and then later follow with the paperback automatically? I'm just not sure how this works.

ORION · Jun 28, 2007

In my case Putnam is putting out my hardback and Berkely (also at Penguin group) will put out the paperback. Sometimes a book will only come out in trade paperback bypassing the hardback. With my publisher in the UK they will put out the trade paperback first to coincide with the US hardback and release the hardback in January 08.
The publisher and agent negotiate what rights the publisher buys. For example Putnam bought hardback, paperback and audio rights but only for North America (not world rights) so the rights can then be sold to individual countries separately.
This is one HUGE reason I think authors need agents as this is not a point which many new writers understand. It has much financial ramifications.

Anonymisty · Jun 28, 2007

Southern_girl29 said:
I've heard people say they sold the paperback rights for their book, but some books automatically come out in hardcover and then in paperback.

Books don't automatically come out in hardcover - it all depends on what your contract with the publisher says. It also depends on what the marketing department thinks will sell. My novel, for example, was originally scheduled for hardcover release in January, followed by a mass market release later. That was until the marketing department decided that I, as a brand-new author, would sell a lot more copies if my book was published in trade paper instead of hardcover.

It's all about the sales.

maestrowork · Jun 28, 2007

It depends on your contract.

johnzakour · Jun 28, 2007

ORION said:
This is one HUGE reason I think authors need agents as this is not a point which many new writers understand. It has much financial ramifications.

Yep, agents are really good at this. If it wasn't for my agent I would have surrendered far more rights to the book.

Staying on topic, my books have on come out in trade paperback in English but in hard cover in other languages. Apparentally readers in other countries are more willing to buy hard cover books.

Jamesaritchie · Jun 28, 2007

Hardcover

It really depends on which publisher it is, and which line the book is for. Paperback originals come out in paperback, and will likely never have a hardcover version unless sales are very, very good.

But the opposite is usually true. Hardcover first, and then paperback, if sales warrant it.

Some publishers release in hardcover, and then in paperback, while others release in hardcover, and then sell paperback rights.

CheshireCat · Jun 28, 2007

And the trend seems to be for lit fic that is released first in hardcover to be published afterward in trade paperback rather than mass-market.

rugcat · Jun 28, 2007

Jamesaritchie said:
Some publishers release in hardcover, and then in paperback...

This is the model that Tor usually employs. Since they are a very successful imprint they must know what they're doing, but I've never understood it. I can't imagine buying a hardcover fantasy novel from an unknown debut author, and I don't know a lot of people who would.

Readers will take a chance on a mass market paperback if it looks interesting, though. If you're hoping to build a fan base and have a career, it's not a bad way to go.

Will Lavender · Jun 28, 2007

CheshireCat said:
And the trend seems to be for lit fic that is released first in hardcover to be published afterward in trade paperback rather than mass-market.

There seems to have been a move in the last few years to publish more genre in trade paperback. It is still mostly published in mass market, of course, but there are a lot more science fiction and mystery books (and even romance) on the trade shelves now than there were a decade ago. (Or at least it seems that way.)

I heard once that trade paperbacks sell horribly in the United States. Not sure if that's true or not.

reenkam · Jun 28, 2007

soooo

mass market's the little one and is trade paperback the one that's a little smaller than a hardback, but definitely bigger than paperback and usually around $14?

rugcat · Jun 28, 2007

reenkam said:
mass market's the little one and is trade paperback the one that's a little smaller than a hardback, but definitely bigger than paperback and usually around $14?

Correct. And mass market books usually run about $6.99-$7.99 these days.

Southern_girl29 · Jun 28, 2007

This has been an interesting discussion. I'm glad I asked about it.

Jamesaritchie · Jun 28, 2007

rugcat said:
This is the model that Tor usually employs. Since they are a very successful imprint they must know what they're doing, but I've never understood it. I can't imagine buying a hardcover fantasy novel from an unknown debut author, and I don't know a lot of people who would.

Readers will take a chance on a mass market paperback if it looks interesting, though. If you're hoping to build a fan base and have a career, it's not a bad way to go.

Well, you get as many hardcover sales as you can, which are better than you would think. By and large, hardcover sales have gone way up, and mass market paperback sales are way down. But the hardcover first, paperback later is actually the standard model for publishers capable of doing both. It's always been this way.

And, of course, libraries want hardcovers, and having readers find and read the hardcover in a library increases paperback sales later on.

And many of those who read the paperback first and become solid fans very often buy the hardcover later to add to their personal library.

reenkam · Jun 28, 2007

Jamesaritchie said:
And many of those who read the paperback first and become solid fans very often buy the hardcover later to add to their personal library.

I admit to having done that/planning to do that....

CheshireCat · Jun 28, 2007

Will Lavender said:
There seems to have been a move in the last few years to publish more genre in trade paperback. It is still mostly published in mass market, of course, but there are a lot more science fiction and mystery books (and even romance) on the trade shelves now than there were a decade ago. (Or at least it seems that way.)

I heard once that trade paperbacks sell horribly in the United States. Not sure if that's true or not.

Virtually all of the trade titles I see in romance are reprints or omnibus editions of two or more "previously published" novels.

Not sure if that holds for mystery, but there's a lot of it in romance. Also some "first time in print" stuff, but I'd guess the percentage skews toward reprints -- at least currently.

But the lit fic titles are going like gangbusters in trade; on a very recent NY Times bestseller list, for paperback fiction, the top 4 titles were trade lit fic.

Word I'm getting is that some publishers are complaining and want the paperback list split (as it once was) so mass-market and trade paperback aren't competing for the same bestseller slots.

Makes sense. Different formats, and -- usually -- different audiences.

Will Lavender · Jun 28, 2007

CheshireCat said:
Virtually all of the trade titles I see in romance are reprints or omnibus editions of two or more "previously published" novels.

Not sure if that holds for mystery, but there's a lot of it in romance. Also some "first time in print" stuff, but I'd guess the percentage skews toward reprints -- at least currently.

But the lit fic titles are going like gangbusters in trade; on a very recent NY Times bestseller list, for paperback fiction, the top 4 titles were trade lit fic.

Word I'm getting is that some publishers are complaining and want the paperback list split (as it once was) so mass-market and trade paperback aren't competing for the same bestseller slots.

Makes sense. Different formats, and -- usually -- different audiences.

Interesting.

Side note: I saw King's Lisey's Story on the mass market stacks today. If you took King's name off that book, it'd be on a different table.

johnzakour · Jun 28, 2007

rugcat said:
This is the model that Tor usually employs. Since they are a very successful imprint they must know what they're doing, but I've never understood it. I can't imagine buying a hardcover fantasy novel from an unknown debut author, and I don't know a lot of people who would.

I totally agree. Heck, I wouldn't buy my novels if they were hard cover. Too expensive if they are published alone. If they are published as part of the collection then that would be a better deal.

Geist · Jun 30, 2007

Jamesaritchie said:
Well, you get as many hardcover sales as you can, which are better than you would think. By and large, hardcover sales have gone way up, and mass market paperback sales are way down. But the hardcover first, paperback later is actually the standard model for publishers capable of doing both. It's always been this way.

And, of course, libraries want hardcovers, and having readers find and read the hardcover in a library increases paperback sales later on.

And many of those who read the paperback first and become solid fans very often buy the hardcover later to add to their personal library.

I can understand this. I freakin hate reading a book in mass market paperback. Hardback is the only way to enjoy a book, if you ask me. If not that, then at least a trade paperback size.

reenkam · Jun 30, 2007

A lot of YA books have been coming out in trade paperback lately. New and reprints. I think it's making me buy more books, actually. Not sure why.

johnzakour · Jun 30, 2007

True my YA's are coming out in trade paperback and I like that format. It nice easy to read and still not that costly.

I just think hard covers cost too much.

Jamesaritchie · Jun 30, 2007

hardcovers

johnzakour said:
True my YA's are coming out in trade paperback and I like that format. It nice easy to read and still not that costly.

I just think hard covers cost too much.

Many seem to think this, but even more do not. Hardcover sales are very high, and paperback sales are slowing dramatically. As expensive as hardcovers are, they're still the choice of those who want to keep books forever. And hardcovers really aren't much more expensive than they ever were, when you adjust for inflation.

Jamesaritchie · Jun 30, 2007

Books

Will Lavender said:
Interesting.

Side note: I saw King's Lisey's Story on the mass market stacks today. If you took King's name off that book, it'd be on a different table.

Sure, and if you took Shakespeare's name off Romeo & Juliet, who'd want to go see it?

ORION · Jun 30, 2007

James makes a good point. Hardbacks are sold to libraries which if you consider that they buy more than one copy AND are world-wide gives an author a much wider audience. They even have posters and put you on NEW ARRIVALS tables -
Free advertising.
They even promote authors --There are several that have already asked me to do a reading and talk.
I thought it was quite interesting that my publisher in the UK is putting out the trade paperback first and THEN the hardback...

Hardback and paperback

Southern_girl29

ORION

Sailed away years ago

Anonymisty

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

johnzakour

Dangerous with a Keyboard

Jamesaritchie

CheshireCat

Mostly purring. Mostly.

rugcat

Lost in the Fog

Will Lavender

Everything is what it seems.

reenkam

aka cupcake

rugcat

Lost in the Fog

Southern_girl29

Jamesaritchie

reenkam

aka cupcake

CheshireCat

Mostly purring. Mostly.

Will Lavender

Everything is what it seems.

johnzakour

Dangerous with a Keyboard

Geist

reenkam

aka cupcake

johnzakour

Dangerous with a Keyboard

Jamesaritchie

Jamesaritchie

ORION

Sailed away years ago