I don't agree with "Start on New Novel" Idea

Star · Jun 25, 2007

Dear Writers,

Just wanted to share a few thoughts on the idea of starting a new novel while you're waiting for the first one to sell. I suggest - don't do it! Instead of investing your time and tears into another long and grueling work, why not challenge yourself to shorter pieces? (Short story, non-fiction article, blog, etc.) I say this and urge this if you have not been published yet. Why not make a few quick bucks and bylines on the side? Besides there's so much more to learn!

What's more, I'm sharing my personal experience with the hope of helping someone else avoid my mistakes:

I wrote my first novel eight years ago. I just knew it was a bestseller. Didn't doubt it for a minute. AFter many trials and tribs, I ended up self-publishing. I believed my novel was brilliant, and relied on the raves of a few hundred readers. Looking back, I wince at my hubris. I could've done so much better. Novel #2. Same thing. My work was beyond reproach. Twelve rejections later, I got a clue, but no solution. My third novel didn't make it past my agent's transom.

And now, years later...I have a new and super agent, a new understanding of the mechanics of fiction, and a possible book deal in the works - all because I revisited previous work and took more classes on the art of fiction. My biggest mistake was investing so much time in Novel#2 & #3 without TRULY understanding what was wrong with Novel #1. So I say this not to discourage, but to shed a bit of light. A new novel may work for you. But most times, you have to learn from past mistakes in order to ensure future success.

This message may be premature because I'm not even there yet. But at least I know I've sent in my very best work. So if the editors don't get it, Fooey on them! There's no stopping me now.

JoNightshade · Jun 25, 2007

Journey's different for everyone, I think. I started out with short stories before I ever migrated to novel writing. I've published in literary mags and in non-fiction venues. Got my credits, and it doesn't pay enough that I'd consider continuing along those lines. What I consider my "first" book is actually my... third? Fourth? It's just the first one I consider excellent enough for publication. At this point, I've developed my craft (although there's always room for improvement) to the point that I am assuming eventual agenting-and-publication. So of course I'm starting right in on my next novel. Doing anything else would be a waste of time.

JanDarby · Jun 25, 2007

Not all genres have a short story market. It's pretty much non-existent in romance (other than erotic romance). At least, it's virtually non-existent for paying markets.

Also, not all writers can do both formats, and the skills for one don't always translate to the other (e.g., pacing). I can think of two bestselling novelists in very different genres who have said publicly that they can't write short stories that are worth reading.

I do agree that sometimes writing another book just means making the same mistakes over and over and over again, and sometimes a short story allows a writer to focus on one small aspect of craft to really get it mastered, but there may be better remedies, like joining a critique group, networking to find a critique partner who will give useful feedback, entering contests within the appropriate genre, taking workshops, studying authors with excellent craft, and even studying authors withOUT excellent craft (critiquing others is a good way of seeing problems that one misses in one's own work).

JD

Star · Jun 25, 2007

Oops, I thought I said this advice is for new writers! My bad. :Hug2:

Jan, that's what I meant by ect.! That's what I get for being lazy. My bad #2.

RG570 · Jun 25, 2007

Hm. I started out doing it this way, then I realized that I hate writing and reading short stories in the genre I write in.

About all I learned from writing short stories in between novels is that if there's anyone more cynical and jaded than editors and agents, it's magazine editors.

NicoleMD · Jun 25, 2007

So would you consider novels 2 and 3 complete wastes? I seriously doubt that you didn't learn any new skills from writing them. Would you advise a painter to paint one landscape and then study it while doing charcoal drawings for a few years before he attempted another painting?

For me, the best way to get better at novel writing is writing novels.

Nicole

LaceWing · Jun 25, 2007

Thanks, Star, for such a well-considered post.

It would be instructive, if you care to continue, to learn what was missing from the first two novels that you were able to put in the third novel, and how short story writing helped.

lkp · Jun 25, 2007

I have zero interest in writing short fiction and not much more interest in reading it (which is probably why I don't want to write it). If writing novels felt "long and grueling" to me, I probably wouldn't have started the first one and certainly wouldn't have finished it. The only thing keeping me sane as I wait to hear the fate of the first, is starting the second. I am having a tn of fun working on it, and I can already see an improvement over the first.
YMMV

Jamesaritchie · Jun 25, 2007

New

The smartest thing any writer can do is start a new novel while trying to sell the old one. Doing the other things you mention are fine, study structure and fiction regularly, but hubris is thinking you can sell a novel without writing a lot of them.

Your very best work may come on novel ten, not novel two or three or four.

As for shorter pieces, some extremely good novelists can't write a good short story, no matter how long and hard they try. The two forms take a different skill set, and just because you can write one well doesn't mean you can write the other well.

The time spent self-publishing could have been spent writing another novel, and then another and another.

I hope this works out for you, but we learn to write well by writing often and making many attempts.

Sandy J · Jun 25, 2007

Jamesaritchie said:
The smartest thing any writer can do is start a new novel while trying to sell the old one. Doing the other things you mention are fine, study structure and fiction regularly, but hubris is thinking you can sell a novel without writing a lot of them.

I've got to agree! And if the first is published, you have a back up or two or three in the wings because you'll be so busy publicizing, you sure won't have time to write a follow up in a timely manner!

Plus, I don't know how NOT to write... :Shrug:

maestrowork · Jun 25, 2007

You could have learned and taken classes, etc. while you wrote book 2 and 3...

Your biggest mistake wasn't that you started/completed book 2 and 3 before you knew what you were doing... it was that you didn't invest some time to learn the craft BEFORE you did anything. I mean, by your definition, you shouldn't have started Book 1 to begin with, because you didn't know anything either. But where would you be if you hadn't started Book 1 at all?

Learn your craft. Study. Read. But for Pete's sake, keep writing.

ChunkyC · Jun 25, 2007

I think the key part of the "start novel #2 while shopping #1" advice is to not let the fact you have finished your book cause to to put your writing on hold. Many beginners, myself included, pay so much attention to that finished book when trying to sell it, that they forget to start something new. It doesn't have to be a novel; it can be a short story or magazine article or copy for a website. But the key point is to keep on writing.

thethinker42 · Jun 25, 2007

The simple truth for me is that novels work better for me. I do write some short work, but most of my best stories naturally evolve into novels.

At present, I have 18 novel WIP's (actually counted them yesterday), all in various stages from researching/outlining to 3rd drafts. I'll usually work feverishly on one, then take a break and work on a different one. Yeah, it takes longer to finish anything, but it's working for me.

There is NO one size fits all "method".

Jamesaritchie · Jun 25, 2007

ChunkyC said:
I think the key part of the "start novel #2 while shopping #1" advice is to not let the fact you have finished your book cause to to put your writing on hold. Many beginners, myself included, pay so much attention to that finished book when trying to sell it, that they forget to start something new. It doesn't have to be a novel; it can be a short story or magazine article or copy for a website. But the key point is to keep on writing.

The key point is also that darned few first novels are worth anything. Most are lousy, and you'll probably have to write three or four or eight before writing one good enough to sell. You learn to write novels by writing novels, not by writing shorts.

glendalough · Jun 25, 2007

Jamesaritchie said:
The smartest thing any writer can do is start a new novel while trying to sell the old one. Doing the other things you mention are fine, study structure and fiction regularly, but hubris is thinking you can sell a novel without writing a lot of them.

Your very best work may come on novel ten, not novel two or three or four.

I have to agree with this. I am on my fifth ? novel and it's my best by farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. I would not have believed that I would improve (in my own opinion only lol) so much from the last two, but I think I have.

ChunkyC · Jun 25, 2007

Jamesaritchie said:
You learn to write novels by writing novels, not by writing shorts.

True. Just like it's tough to learn the guitar by picking up a banjo.

I was just thinking that sometimes the core point of that adage gets lost sometimes, and that is to keep on writing.

Atlantis · Jun 25, 2007

I've been working on Atlantis Reborn for about three years now and it has been a long, grueling, work. I am soooo close to finishing I can almost see those wonderous words "THE END" getting closer to me. When I'm done, I am going to try my hand at short stories, to have a break from novel writing and to try and get some publishing credits. I'm going to target magazines or e-zines, whoever will pay me, I'm not fussy. Atlantis Reborn is a single fantasy book that if successful can become the springboard for the large fantasty/romance series about gods finding their soul mates called the Chronicles of the Gods. The two short stories I have in mind will be apart of the Chronicles and I'm hoping that they might somehow serve as an enticement for people to want to read more of my stories....failing that, it will still just be super nice to get paid to write something for once.

job · Jun 25, 2007

With short stories and novels, you're talking two very different animals.

You can learn precision of language by writing poetry, non-fiction, short stories and, I dunnoh, song lyrics and limericks and book reviews and just about anything you care to mention.
We need precision and control and we never stop learning it.

But ... poetry and short stories and so on,
are the situps and three mile runs and cling-and-jerks that get your writing muscles ready.

Swan Lake is not doing situps really really well for an hour and a half.
Swan Lake is doing something else entirely.

A novel needs large-scale pacing, complex character development and a huge, interlocking, self-propelled structure.
You don't learn any of this by doing short stories, because these things do not exist in short stories.

scarletpeaches · Jun 25, 2007

I have never written a short story in my life and can't see it ever happening. My ideas are novel-sized; at the very least, 60k YA novels. I have no interest in writing short stories and never read them.

As soon as I finish one novel I start the next because writing a novel is the best way to learn how to do it. If I don't sell Book #1, it's not the fault of Book #2, but my own for not writing well enough, and that's something I can only remedy by coming here, reading 'how to write' books, and um...surprisingly enough, by writing.

Dave.C.Robinson · Jun 25, 2007

I think it's bad advice. I have written short stories and a few other things since I finished my first novel; but I also went right into another novel. I'm now revising the first and working on a third.

I've taken classes, followed forums, and spent a lot of time working on my writing. However, the most important part of the whole experience was taking what I'd learned and applying it to writing novels.

mscelina · Jun 25, 2007

I'd have to agree that writing-any sort of writing--is essential for an author to continue learning his/her craft. I say craft here very specifically--developing a story idea is the art; learning how to do it well is a craft, a skill honed by much practice. The only way to improve is to continue to practice it and learning constantly. That being said, it doesn't matter if you're writing a new novel or a short story or a grocery list, as long as you endeavor to continuously learn and improve while you do it.

herdon · Jun 25, 2007

I disagree with the OP.

People should write, and they should write what they want to write. Be that novels, short stories, a screenplay, whatever.

Personally, I don't read short stories, and I don't write them very well. I'd much rather play around with another novel. But, so long as the person is writing, they should be geting better -- and that is the key.

reenkam · Jun 25, 2007

scarletpeaches said:
I have never written a short story in my life and can't see it ever happening. My ideas are novel-sized; at the very least, 60k YA novels. I have no interest in writing short stories and never read them.

As soon as I finish one novel I start the next because writing a novel is the best way to learn how to do it. If I don't sell Book #1, it's not the fault of Book #2, but my own for not writing well enough, and that's something I can only remedy by coming here, reading 'how to write' books, and um...surprisingly enough, by writing.

ditto

Claudia Gray · Jun 25, 2007

If it works for you -- and this approach might very well work for some people -- full steam ahead. The first few years I was writing, I went back and forth between novel-length work and shorter pieces. Novels were what I was always looking for, but shorter stories gave me a lot more room to experiment with voice, unusual POVs, riskier narrative structure, etc. I don't use all of those in my novels yet, but I don't consider the time I spent honing those skills to be wasted.

So while I think this would not be a good rule, it's worth considering as a suggestion.

joymark · Jun 25, 2007

I don't know about this approach, so no offense but I think I'll pass. My personal goal is not to be published anyway. Sure, I will dance in the streets should that ever come to pass, but when I started writing I had no inkling of ever pursuing publication. Now that I've got a few hundred-thousand words under my belt, I find myself doing the footwork and research necessary to pursue publication if I feel the work is ready for such.

Otherwise, I will continue to write solely for the joy of writing. As stated above, I am very much a novelist, and as such it is not within me to simply sit down and begin writing a shorter work. I have some shorter works on deck, but those came from pure flashes of inspiration and absolutely no planning on my part. In fact, I'm having real trouble finishing them because I'm a long-winded fantasy writer.

Q: What does a fantasy writer do when he/she wants to write a short story? A: Condenses the story down to only one novel.

I don't agree with "Start on New Novel" Idea

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