13,000 words and not a plot in sight

heyjude · Jun 23, 2007

Have you ever gotten this far in a WIP and not been sure where you're going? I've got great characters, an intriguing and mysterious backstory... and I'm not sure where it's all headed. I've never been this uncertain before!

Can anyone relate?

Oddsocks · Jun 23, 2007

I can't say I can - but then, I haven't yet been that far into a story.

Plot is really important to me, though, so unless I'm feeling inspired about the plot, I won't even be starting a story. I do have instances where I know exactly what the problem is, but not how the characters are going to solve it, which is probably just as worrying!

johnzakour · Jun 23, 2007

Before I start any story I always have a fairly good idea where it is going.

I need a starting point and final destination and a general road map on how to get there in order to focus. I may take detours from the map, but I find having a map really helps make the trip more enjoyable.

Harper K · Jun 23, 2007

Yeah. Actually, that was the story of my writing life for a long time. My mom, who hasn't read anything I've written in ages, always replies the same way when I mention that I'm working on a novel that I aim to publish: "Don't forget to have a plot!" Thanks, Mom.

I love characters... but for so long I was afraid to torture them. They had flaws, and they had plenty of bad stuff in their respective pasts, but I never allowed any of that to come to a head in the present. I believed too hard in the mantra that character IS plot -- well, it is, but there's still gotta be something that propels the reader to turn pages.

Do your characters have conflicts with each other? That creates suspense right there. Same with something from a character's backstory that comes back to haunt him or her in the present. I suspect you have the seeds of a plot in your novel already, heyjude.

Last night I stayed up way too late reading a mostly plotless novel I wrote several years ago. I got a full 60,000 words into that one before realizing I didn't know where it was going. But when I reread it last night I kept turning the pages (well, scrolling through the pages) because it really felt like it was building to something. It never did, of course, but if I ever decide to rewrite that novel I know to cut that first 60,000 words of buildup to about 10,000 words and then start making life harder for my characters.

emcrane · Jun 23, 2007

My advice is keep going. It sounds like you write character-driven stuff, and 13,000 words isn't much for people who do that. I do. Your plot will show up eventually, and then you can reassess the character development parts and cut if you need to. Don't look at it as a waste of time until the plot appears, look at it as giving readers what they need to invest their hearts int he story. Good luck!

scarletpeaches · Jun 23, 2007

When I start writing something, I know the characters inside out, the beginning and the end. But I have no idea how I'm going to get there. 13k represents about a week's work to me, and I've usually lain the groundwork for future plot development within that time. I often don't know I have, but a few chapters in I'll think, "Oh, I could use that point from chapter two here, or develop character X's sub-plot a bit more."

NicoleMD · Jun 23, 2007

Oh, all the time. That's the best part for me!

13,000 is no time to worry about not having a plot. Just keep writing, and keep your characters doing interesting things, and hopefully the plot will jump out you at some point and say "Here I am!"

This is how I typically write. Usually my plots tend to wrap themselves around some seemingly insiginificant detail I mention in the first chapter or so, so keep your eyes peeled for those sorts of gems. Reassess what you have written so far, and see if there's an idea, theme, or object that you could build on.

Now if you get to 60,000 words and still have no plot, I give you permission to worry.

Nicole

JasonChirevas · Jun 23, 2007

satori said:
I believed too hard in the mantra that character IS plot -- well, it is, but there's still gotta be something that propels the reader to turn pages.

Character is not plot. Character is story. Plot is plot.

To me, anyway.

-Jason

scarletpeaches · Jun 23, 2007

Characters are the ones who decide what to do. Their actions become the plot.

Story and plot are the same thing to me. And character trumps both. You've got that, you've got a book.

Will Lavender · Jun 23, 2007

scarletpeaches said:
When I start writing something, I know the characters inside out, the beginning and the end. But I have no idea how I'm going to get there. 13k represents about a week's work to me, and I've usually lain the groundwork for future plot development within that time. I often don't know I have, but a few chapters in I'll think, "Oh, I could use that point from chapter two here, or develop character X's sub-plot a bit more."

That's how I write as well.

If I were 13,000 in and didn't know the basics of my plot, I'd be worried.

WordGypsy · Jun 23, 2007

Don't be worried. Eventually the plot will rear its ugly head and then you can always go back and fill in the details later. Either way, you've given us alot to work with which is good. As long as it's character driven I wouldn't worry about it all. Remember the first draft is you writing with the door closed. Even if it doesn't go anywhere count it as practice and learn from it. Future writings will be much better because of it! Good luck and keep pounding out those words!

JasonChirevas · Jun 23, 2007

scarletpeaches said:
Characters are the ones who decide what to do. Their actions become the plot.

Story and plot are the same thing to me. And character trumps both. You've got that, you've got a book.

I tend to agree with every single thing you say on these boards (you also look more than a bit like my wife, so that's...yeah), but I have a bit of a different take here.

Action is character. What someone does is who they are.

Character is story. The characters act within, and on, the plot.

The plot is the problem, or the basic premise. Party quests for ring. Guy meets/loses/wins girl. Etc.

The plot's the canvas, the characters are the paint, the story's the painting.

That's how I see it.

-Jason

scarletpeaches · Jun 23, 2007

Your wife's a stunner, then.

JasonChirevas · Jun 23, 2007

scarletpeaches said:
Your wife's a stunner, then.

I like to think so.

-Jason

Carmy · Jun 23, 2007

Most of the time, I have a good idea of where a story is going to go. One time, that didn't happen but I trusted my characters and they showed me the plot as we went along.

Trust your characters.

aadams73 · Jun 23, 2007

Perhaps you've started too early in the story and your real beginning is yet to be determined. Like Will, I'd be concerned if I didn't have a clue what my story was about 13,000 words into it.

(Perhaps a small outline--just a couple of sentences--would help you focus)

JamieFord · Jun 23, 2007

My guess is that you don't have a definite ending in mind. Am I right?

I can't write without an ending in mind, otherwise I'm just spinning my wheels. 13,000 isn't a lot of words, but I wouldn't keep going unless you knew "where" those wheels were taking you.

For me, the enjoyable part is having a beginning and an ending, and then finding new ways to put nails in the path of my protagonist along the way.

But without an ending, I just go down all kinds of dead ends...hoping something pops up that makes it work.

heyjude · Jun 23, 2007

Thanks to all for the encouraging words.

The plot made its appearance a little while ago. It came 'round the corner on two wheels and slammed into my characters without hitting the brakes. Wonderful thing, writing.

Many thanks to aadams73 on the small outline idea. A chapter-by-chapter outline does me in... I simply can't do that for some reason, but a smaller one sounds feasible.

Jamesaritchie · Jun 23, 2007

heyjude said:
Have you ever gotten this far in a WIP and not been sure where you're going? I've got great characters, an intriguing and mysterious backstory... and I'm not sure where it's all headed. I've never been this uncertain before!

Can anyone relate?

Shoot, I never know where I'm going, and I don't believe in plotting a novel, anyway. I'm firmly in the Ray Bradbury and Stephen King camp where plot is concerned. As Bradbury says,

Remember: Plot is no more than footprints left in the snow
after your characters have run by on their way to incredible
destinations. Plot is observed after the fact rather than before. It
cannot precede action. It is the chart that remains when an action
is through. That is all Plot ever should be. It is human desire let
run, running, and reaching a goal. It cannot be mechanical. It can
only be dynamic.
So, stand aside, forget targets, let the characters, your fingers,
body, blood, and heart do.

And as King puts it with his usual bluntness. [SIZE=-1]Plot is the good writer's last resort and the dullard's first choice.

[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Works for me.
[/SIZE]

Geist · Jun 23, 2007

I respect King and Bradbuy (Didn't he write Farenheit 451; I read that). But I disagree on their technique of just free-flowing and letting the plot develop naturally, I think it shows in the work negatively. King said he plotted and planed The Dead Zone, and that he really liked that book of his, and not incedentally, so did I. I would say it's probably the one I like the best.

Hillgate · Jun 23, 2007

scarletpeaches said:
When I start writing something, I know the characters inside out, the beginning and the end. But I have no idea how I'm going to get there. 13k represents about a week's work to me, and I've usually lain the groundwork for future plot development within that time. I often don't know I have, but a few chapters in I'll think, "Oh, I could use that point from chapter two here, or develop character X's sub-plot a bit more."

How's the weather up in fair Dundee?

Jamesaritchie · Jun 23, 2007

Geist said:
I respect King and Bradbuy (Didn't he write Farenheit 451; I read that). But I disagree on their technique of just free-flowing and letting the plot develop naturally, I think it shows in the work negatively. King said he plotted and planed The Dead Zone, and that he really liked that book of his, and not incedentally, so did I. I would say it's probably the one I like the best.

It isn't just their technique, it's been that of most of the great writers throughout history. And the book most consider King's worst by far, and the one he considers the worst, is the one he actually did plot and plan, which was Insomnia.

And disagree or not, Bradbury is probably the best writer alive, and King certainly one of the most popular.

I don't think it's ever a good idea for a writer to force plot on a story. A good enough writer can make anything work, but I find incredibly few writers who plot in advance that I can even read.

scarletpeaches · Jun 23, 2007

Bradbury the best writer alive whether we agree or not? Whoa, lots of room for difference of opinion there, JAR.

Fortunately there are those who recognise your opinion is not an objective fact. I've read some of Bradbury's work and feel far more stimulated, entertained and educated by many other writers. 'Best'? Not by a long shot.

rugcat · Jun 23, 2007

I think the Bradbury quote from JAR is one of the best I’ve ever seen on the subject.

But lets not forget that very few things are either/or. Most things are a continuum with extremes at either end. Smart and stupid. Calm and agitated. Gay and straight.

Outlines can be anything from a set of index cards that tell you when and where each plot twist will occur to a vague notion that the butler, did in fact, do it.

I never outline. My plot develops as the characters interact. But I often have a pretty clear idea of where the whole thing is going.(Although I’ve sometimes had to make drastic changes when it doesn’t go the way I had intended.)

I’d like to believe that the very best writers are not outliners, because that matches up neatly with my own beliefs about writing. But I’m not sure that it’s true.

thethinker42 · Jun 23, 2007

Geist said:
I respect King and Bradbuy (Didn't he write Farenheit 451; I read that). But I disagree on their technique of just free-flowing and letting the plot develop naturally, I think it shows in the work negatively. King said he plotted and planed The Dead Zone, and that he really liked that book of his, and not incedentally, so did I. I would say it's probably the one I like the best.

Yet he winged it with "The Stand", which was, IMHO, a great story.

13,000 words and not a plot in sight

heyjude

Making my own sunshine

Oddsocks

johnzakour

Dangerous with a Keyboard

Harper K

here's to the girl on the go

emcrane

scarletpeaches

NicoleMD

Onomatopotamus

JasonChirevas

scarletpeaches

Will Lavender

Everything is what it seems.

WordGypsy

JasonChirevas

scarletpeaches

JasonChirevas

Carmy

aadams73

A Work in Progress

JamieFord

giving resonant directions

heyjude

Making my own sunshine

Jamesaritchie

Geist

Hillgate

On location

Jamesaritchie

scarletpeaches

rugcat

Lost in the Fog

thethinker42

Abnormal Romance Author