Question on rhyme

Kat Frass · Jun 19, 2007

Hello all!

This is officially my first post. I will admit to lurking here for the past month.

I have two children's picture books written that I am submitting like mad woman, but no bites yet.

While waiting patiently for a publisher to fall in love with my books.. I am continuing to write. Unfortunately.. the book that is stuck in my head right now is in rhyme. I know most publisher hate rhyme.. but this book won't leave me alone!! LOL. I have to get it out on paper.

So - with that being said.. I am hoping you all can give me your opinion.

I am doing an ABCB rhyme style and the rhyme is naturally breaking at 4 lines per group.. but I have a question on the amount of syllables per line. I'm bouncing between 6 and 5 syllables per line.. but there is no pattern. One set of 4 lines may be 6,5,6,5 and the next set of 4 lines is 6,5,5,5 and the next is 5,6,6,6. When I READ it out loud.. it sounds great.

So - do you think that when rhyming.. the number of syllables in each line is important? Or am I stressing over something that really just doesn't matter if the flow and rhythm are correct?

I think I'm going to go pull all the rhyming picture books in my house and start counting syllables! EEEK.. I'm in for a fun night.. LOL

Look forward to your opinions on this matter.

Thanks in adavance!

Shady Lane · Jun 19, 2007

Hey, welcome to AW!

I'd love to take a list and tell you if it sounds all right, but I think I'll need a sample. Would you mind posting a bit?

Pat~ · Jun 19, 2007

Hi Kat,

I write rhyming metric poetry; I think what may be happening when you're writing is that you're dropping a half-foot at the beginning or end of a line. It's okay, as long as it doesn't adversely affect the rhythm and flow of your poetry, and that you still have the same number of feet per line. I agree with the above post; a small sample would help here...

Kat Frass · Jun 19, 2007

OK - a small sample.. The book is a rhyme for young children and is about 4 different emotions. I think an illustrator would have a lot of fun drawing the faces.

So - from the section about being mad:

Do you stomp and pout (5)

As you sit on the floor (6)

Do you throw a big fit (6)

Or go slam a door? (5)

Do you holler and yell (6)

Do you get really loud (6)

Turn blue and explode (5)

Like a giant storm cloud? (6)

So - do you see what I mean about there not being a pattern for the number of syllables for each line? To me.. when I read it out loud.. the flow is great and it is a fun read. But I got a little worried when I broke down the syllables per line. Now.. I'm not sure if it matters or not.

What do you all think?

Thanks!

Pat~ · Jun 19, 2007

Do you stomp and pout (5)
As you sit on the floor (6)
Do you throw a big fit (6)
Or go slam a door? (5)
Do you holler and yell (6)
Do you get really loud (6)
Turn blue and explode (5)
Like a giant storm cloud? (6)

I think you might be able to get away with it; each line still has 2 major stresses or beats, though you have to slur together some of the syllables to make them fit within the rhythm. Where I've hilited in red, the "or go" has to be stretched quite a bit to fit the rhythm; if I changed any of it I might start there.

Cute poem!

Shady Lane · Jun 19, 2007

That is cute, but I also had a problem with the slam the door.

"Or do you slam the door" would have the proper rhythm. Not suggesting you change it to that or anything, but I think it needs the extra beat to sound correct.

Storyteller5 · Jun 19, 2007

Check out Jane Yolen's How Do Dinosaurs.. books. They are a very similar style (down to the phrasing) to what you are writing. Your lines remind me of the two that my son has -- How Do Dinosaurs Eat their Foodand How Do Dinosaurs Read.

mpatient24 · Jun 19, 2007

Rhyming book

I'm not a big fan of rhyming children's books, but as I read your excerpt I thought it was really good, (without changing anything), and thought it sounded like a book I would want to buy for my children. I made the change that was recommended while re-reading it, and I actually didn't think it flowed as well as the way you have it.

I'm not an expert at writing, but reading a novel a day, sometimes two makes me a bit of an expert on reading and buying books. =) I also used to read poetry through Voice & Diction classes in college. It sounded great to me.

Shady Lane · Jun 19, 2007

mpatient24 said:
I'm not a big fan of rhyming children's books, but as I read your excerpt I thought it was really good, (without changing anything), and thought it sounded like a book I would want to buy for my children. I made the change that was recommended while re-reading it, and I actually didn't think it flowed as well as the way you have it.

I'm not an expert at writing, but reading a novel a day, sometimes two makes me a bit of an expert on reading and buying books. =) I also used to read poetry through Voice & Diction classes in college. It sounded great to me.

I'm defeated by these credentials, for the record.

Stijn Hommes · Jun 20, 2007

All that matters in this case is how it sounds. Syllables aren't really important as long as you get the rhytm right.

Kat Frass · Jun 20, 2007

Let me just say now that you are all AWESOME!! Thank you so much for the advice. At this point.. I think I'll play around some more (add in the extra syllable in different ways) and find lots of people to read it cold out loud to me. That way... maybe I can hear how other people read it. I'm hoping any issues will become clear at that point.

I must say, I appreciate how kind you all are. As an aspiring children's author.. I go through moments where I'm sure everything I write is total garbage.. LOL. It feels really good to have someone say a nice word about my writing.

OK.. now I MUST go finish my story... well... atleast get a little more down.

Thanks!

stormie · Jun 20, 2007

Hey Kat! I'm coming in late on this, but I have to say it's adorable. It does flow nicely. My question is, is it feasible to say "Do you stomp and pout/ as you sit on the floor." A child could conceivably stomp their feet as they sit on the floor (I have seen them do this! They kind of lean way back on their elbows and kick their feet) but it just caught me off-guard for a second, and I paused at it. What do you think?

Symphony · Jun 20, 2007

Hello there,

Like you, I have a rhyming children's book that I have hopes for which I fear will remain with me forever ...

Generally, publishers seem NOT to like rhyming picture books, but usually because the quality of rhymes they get these days is appalling. Lots of authors tend to think that poetry is cute and if the final words rhyme then that's all that matters, so you need your rhyme to stand out. Personally, I think a pattern is crucial. It's not so much the syllables as where the stresses lie. In the above example, your last line doesn't fit because if you read this line out of context the stress will naturally come on 'storm' whereas you want it to be on 'cloud', so you have to juggle and make sure somehow that the reader stresses cloud instead! It's so difficult to do, because once the rhyme is in YOUR head, it's hard to read it any other way.

You can get away with different syllables, but not with the metre! It's the stresses that count. Patterns matter, too. Hairy Maclary is fab for this - gets away with murder because of the lovely patterns.

Hope this helps - feel free to PM me with any other lines that you're having trouble with and I'll do my best to help.

Symphony

Kat Frass · Jun 20, 2007

Stormie - You know.. it's funny. That line came very naturally to me because that is exactly what my 3 year old does when she is super mad. She sits on the floor.. starts out pouting.. then starts stomping her feet.. then.. you always know the loud blood curdling wail is coming next. Thank GOODNESS she only does it at home.. she is a perfect angel when we are out and about. I'll run it by some other parents and see if anyone else has a problem with that visual. I guess it didn't occur to me that others might not see it.

Symphony - I appreciate your insight... and I may just take you up on the PM'ing. I still have two sections to write.. but the first two emotions went pretty well (IMHO). I'm really hoping that by having others read it cold to me, I'll see where other people stress the lines. If they trip up, I'll know for a fact it needs help.

You have all put my mind at ease about the syllables. I'm slowly figuring it all out. Thank you all so much.

Now - I'm off to see if I can be of help in another thread. Nothing worse than a newbie that doesn't contribute.

Question on rhyme

Kat Frass

Shady Lane

my name is hannah

Pat~

Luftmensch Emeritus, A.D.D.

Kat Frass

Pat~

Luftmensch Emeritus, A.D.D.

Shady Lane

my name is hannah

Storyteller5

Say something...

mpatient24

Shady Lane

my name is hannah

Stijn Hommes

Know what you write...

Kat Frass

stormie

storm central

Symphony

Kat Frass