Need a little help...

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Ambergold

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Hi all, I've been having a wee problem with this sentence. I'm not sure if if the dash between lately and big is correct. Any help would be much appreciated.


Sullen thoughts brought on by more than an ill fitting wedding dress or having Babs huddled in the garden shed, as she’d been having doubts about this wedding lately– big ones
 

Flay

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That looks like a hyphen to me. An em dash—like these—would be fine in that sentence.

Edited to add: some publishers, especially in the UK, prefer a spaced en dash – like this.
 
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FennelGiraffe

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Sullen thoughts brought on by more than an ill fitting wedding dress or having Babs huddled in the garden shed, as she’d been having doubts about this wedding lately– big ones

what about a ; ?

I don't think a semi-colon can be used there, because "big ones" isn't an independent clause.
 

alleycat

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If you wanted to make it dramatic, and it fits your writing style, you could use a sentence fragment.

. . . she’d been having doubts about this wedding lately. Big ones.
 
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alleycat

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And, not to be overly critical, I would think about rewriting the sentence.

It's sound passive to me, and slightly confusing. But, that wasn't what you asked.
 

alleycat

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The original sentence is a sentence fragment. I'm not sure having two consecutive fragments is a good idea.
I wasn't going to get into that. Again, I'd suggest rewriting the sentence or sentences.

But that's an easy fix, basically left "as is":

Sullen thoughts had been brought on by more than an ill fitting wedding dress or having Babs huddled in the garden shed, as she’d been having doubts about this wedding lately--big ones
 

FennelGiraffe

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But it's short enough to be an exception to the semicolon rule. An em dash or comma would work fine prior to "big ones."

I don't understand what you mean by "short enough to be an exception to the semicolon rule". What does length have to do with it? Especially since you go on to suggest using an em dash or comma, anyway.
 

Silver King

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I don't understand what you mean by "short enough to be an exception to the semicolon rule". What does length have to do with it? Especially since you go on to suggest using an em dash or comma, anyway.
The point I was trying to make is that semicolons, and periods for that matter, are not always used to separate independent clauses.

The easiest explanation I can find is from Strunk and White:

"A comma is preferable when the clauses are very short and alike in form, or when the tone of the sentence is easy and conversational.

"I hardly knew him, he was so changed."
 

FennelGiraffe

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The point I was trying to make is that semicolons, and periods for that matter, are not always used to separate independent clauses.

I can find other references which call that a comma splice and say it's always incorrect. Even granting the point for now, though, the sentence in question doesn't have two independent clauses. "Big ones" isn't an independent clause. It isn't any kind of clause at all.
 

alleycat

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I love the smell of a good grammar fight in the morning . . .

;-)
 

Silver King

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I love the smell of a good grammar fight in the morning . . . ;-)
Come on, Fennel. Put up your dukes; it's fish against giraffe time. :box:

I can find other references which call that a comma splice and say it's always incorrect...
I agree it's a comma splice, but that doesn't make it "always" incorrect. The exception to the rule I stated above would come into play.

Here's one more from S&W that further illustrates independent clauses separated by commas:

The gates swung apart, the bridge fell, the portcullis was drawn up.
 

FennelGiraffe

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Come on, Fennel. Put up your dukes; it's fish against giraffe time. :box:

LOL! :tongue

Actually, it isn't a fight at all--we're merely talking about two entirely different things.

Please note the original question:
Sullen thoughts brought on by more than an ill fitting wedding dress or having Babs huddled in the garden shed, as she’d been having doubts about this wedding lately– big ones

Followed by the suggestion of replacing the hyphen with a semi-colon:
what about a ; ?

Followed by my attempt to explain why a semi-colon isn't applicable in this specific case:
I don't think a semi-colon can be used there, because "big ones" isn't an independent clause.

I never said that all independent clauses must be separated by semi-colons. I said since it isn't an independent clause, then it can't be separated by a semi-colon*, which is an entirely different assertion. The former, however, appears to be the point you are arguing.

But it's short enough to be an exception to the semicolon rule. An em dash or comma would work fine prior to "big ones."

The point I was trying to make is that semicolons, and periods for that matter, are not always used to separate independent clauses.

I agree it's a comma splice, but that doesn't make it "always" incorrect. The exception to the rule I stated above would come into play.

*The other use of semi-colons isn't applicable in this case, either. I thought that one was sufficiently far afield to not require comment.
 

Silver King

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Actually, it isn't a fight at all--we're merely talking about two entirely different things...
I'm sure glad you took the time to highlight those quotes. We are, indeed, talking about two entirely different things. For some reason, I got it into my head we were discussing semicolon usage, which takes this thread beyond the original question.

In any case, some good points were brought up along the way.

As for the fish versus giraffe battle, the jury is still out on which of the two would win the contest; now if the fight were waged underwater...:e2fish:
 

alleycat

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Wonder where poor Amber went to . . .

More fighting, less spitting.

;-)
 
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