Should I be dirty? Y/N

MelodyO · Jun 7, 2007

I know a lot of writers avoid graphic sex scenes in their novels because they find them excruciating to write. Not to put too fine a point on it, but I've got a little bit of a gift when it comes to writing ~~porn~~ ~~smut~~ erotica, as it turns out.

The question is -- just because I can, should I? I have a sex scene in my novel that's definitely more show than tell. There was much UST in the rest of the novel, but now I'm second-guessing whether I should just fade to black after he...uh...never mind what he does.

So my question to you is: if you're reading a SF suspense novel where the two MCs are snarky and hot for each other throughout, would a full-blown (make your own joke here) sex scene seem out of place? Would it make you uncomfortable? Do many other novels that aren't romances go all the way? Do tell.

newmod · Jun 7, 2007

If you´re looking for a beta reader

Ziljon · Jun 7, 2007

I think it's refeshing. I once read a dark fantasy novel from a writer in my group. There was one scene, a forced rape by an old hag on two very bad men that was so visceral and bizarre and disturbing...unlike anything I'd ever read before. Very memorable.

I'd say go for it!

newmod · Jun 7, 2007

To actually answer your question, it wouldn´t really interest me the, erm, ins and outs of it all. If I want that there are other things I can, uh-hum, get hold of, if you catch my drift.

It wouldn´t make me uncomfortable, it would seem out of place to me. Just my opinion of course.

J. Weiland · Jun 7, 2007

Less can be more.

NeuroFizz · Jun 7, 2007

Unless you were being humorous, using works like "dirty" and crossed out "smut" and "porn" suggest you may be taking the wrong approach to the scene. Does it add to the story? Does taking it from an "R" rating to a "XXX" rating add to the story? Can you accomplish the same thing by writing the scene, but concentrating on the emotional aspects of the interaction rather than the mechanical aspects? If you choose the latter, does that add more to the story than the former?

Because you are good at doing something doesn't mean it will be good for the story (move that forward). Yet, a good, intimate love scene can do wonders for characterization and even plot. But intimate isn't the same as dirty.

Namatu · Jun 7, 2007

I don't know. Sometimes as a reader you like a little reward for your investment in the characters. If the UST is that great, then a little, ahem, happy moment shared may not be out of place. I wouldn't, however, go fully down the erotica-petaled path.

scarletpeaches · Jun 7, 2007

If it doesn't add anything to the story then why write it? It can read more like titillation than plot development. It's very rare that a sex scene is essential to the plot (no matter what those actresses say about "Only taking my clothes off when it's necessary for the story") so I hardly ever bother.

I've described sex twice that I can think of. The first was because my character was trying to deny her guilt over what she was doing and I wanted to show her going with her heart rather than her head. The second time was - ahem - to show the MC experiencing an orgasm for the first time. She'd finally learned to 'let go' sexually.

Other than that, I'm a 'leave em at the bedroom door' type of writer. I once wrote a 90k novel without even a swear word, so it can be done.

mscelina · Jun 7, 2007

As a writer who helps pay the bills by cranking out "women's literature" upon occasion, there are a few cardinal rules to follow when approaching sex scenes.

1)Is it necessary for the plot? There's nothing worse than a randomly stuck in graphic sex scene that doesn't forward the plot. Sex for sex's sake is a no-no--even in erotica.

2)The graphicness of the sex depends upon the personalities of the character. Sex scenes are still related (or should be) froma single character's point of view. Is your MC the kind of character who would think in graphic terms?

3)Sex scenes can be evocative without using four-letter terminology.

4)Keep in mind your genre. Erotica readers expect to be confronted with vivid anatomical descriptions. Romance readers prefer more allegorical descriptions. Scif fi or fantasy? The market is so broad in those genres right now that I would think there would be trouble persuading a publisher to pick up on a project that cannot be marketed to the target audience as a whole.

I write a lot of mainstream speculative fiction and erotica. I must be honest with you--I keep the two separate, even down to the pseudonyms. Sure there's a lot of cross-genre bleed-over, but there isn't a lot of cross-market blending going on. I'd consider that very strongly before making your decision.

Claudia Gray · Jun 7, 2007

If the scene fits the overall tone of your novel (is it very graphic and visceral in other ways, too?), tells you something about the characters instead of reducing them to bodies and is actually hot, I say go for it. If not, I'd rethink.

I think I write good action scenes, but that doesn't mean I put action scenes into everything I write; however, when the story needs one, I go for it full-blast. So that's what I'd advise you to do with the sex scenes.

Summonere · Jun 7, 2007

MelodyO said:
So my question to you is: if you're reading a SF suspense novel where the two MCs are snarky and hot for each other throughout, would a full-blown (make your own joke here) sex scene seem out of place?

Doesn't that all depend on what kind of market you're trying to reach? If the novels of which yours is a type do that sort of thing, then okay. If not, then such content is probably not something the market wants.

Would it make you uncomfortable?

Probably not. But that depends upon the market, again. Such a thing in a YA novel, yep, that would probably be bothersome. In a novel in which exploration of, or commentary upon, sex or sexuality is part of the story purpose, well, back to probably not...

Do many other novels that aren't romances go all the way? Do tell.

Some do, some don't. I seem to recall seeing it less than more.

Sassee · Jun 7, 2007

I find giving a little hint of the action is every bit as good, sometimes better, than describing an erotic scene in detail. It lets the readers use their imagination and doesn't make the author look sex-crazed.

Plus, there's no better feeling than having beta readers come back and say, "OMG, you are such a tease!"

So I'd say be descriptive and teasing right up until the actual act... then end the scene and cut to something else. It's fun, try it.

IMO, readers and characters alike need some gratuitous action every once in a while. If it's not necessary to the plot then definitely cut out the detail and keep it really short. If it's necessary, only show enough to let the reader see some character developement or plot advancement, and then end it.

But if ya really want to get some of that smutty detail down on paper, go ahead and write a little blurb off to the side and continue on with your novel.

Bartholomew · Jun 7, 2007

I just read some slush with a rather explicit sex scene. It shook me and made me question the whole story. It was like reading about someone taking a giant poop in vivid detail.

Plan sex scenes carefully.

MelodyO · Jun 7, 2007

Scif fi or fantasy? The market is so broad in those genres right now that I would think there would be trouble persuading a publisher to pick up on a project that cannot be marketed to the target audience as a whole.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. I didn't think about genre whatsoever when I wrote my book, and now it's coming back to bite me. And not in the good way. Groan!

MelodyO · Jun 7, 2007

Summonere said:
Doesn't that all depend on what kind of market you're trying to reach? If the novels of which yours is a type do that sort of thing, then okay. If not, then such content is probably not something the market wants.

Your comment makes me painfully aware that I don't know what market I'm trying to reach. The market that likes time-traveling, snarky, violent, fllirty action? SIGH. I'm actually starting to wonder if my novel can be salvaged. ::curls up into a ball::

scarletpeaches · Jun 7, 2007

Bartholomew said:
I just read some slush with a rather explicit sex scene. It shook me and made me question the whole story. It was like reading about someone taking a giant poop in vivid detail.

Plan sex scenes carefully.

That's what we need. More poop fiction.

Jamesaritchie · Jun 7, 2007

Sex

You should write what makes YOU happy, and whatever it is YOU want to read.

ccarver30 · Jun 7, 2007

I wanna read!!!!!!!!!!11111111

MelodyO · Jun 7, 2007

Jamesaritchie said:
You should write what makes YOU happy, and whatever it is YOU want to read.

::hugs you tight:: I did, and I love my story so much. It just might not be easily sold as is. I'm not giving up yet, though!

BarbJ · Jun 7, 2007

"Your comment makes me painfully aware that I don't know what market I'm trying to reach. The market that likes time-traveling, snarky, violent, fllirty action? SIGH. I'm actually starting to wonder if my novel can be salvaged. ::curls up into a ball::"

Uncurl, Melody. I like that kind of action, as do a lot of people. What I don't like is explicit sex scenes leaping out unexpectedly; it seems out of place and - what's the word? Tokenish? (I feel the same about movies.) If there's foreplay, so to speak, throughout the book, at least there's warning and some tingly anticipation. My suggestion would be to make the scene less explicit, if it's important, or eliminate it if it's not. More romantic. perhaps? More emotion and reaction, less physical description?

You might want to write first, see how the book develops, then define your market and edit for those people. There is a market for erotic SF.

Summonere · Jun 7, 2007

Too late do I realize what I left out, so...

Ditto Jamesritchie's comment. (It bears repeating, and dittoing.)

You first have to write the story the way you want to write it, not the way you think someone else wants to read it. If you do that, and like it, and send it out to places that might buy it, they'll ultimately decide whether or not they want to keep your sex scenes or change them.

Trying to stifle, alter, or modify what energizes you to write based upon how you think it might be received is almost always injurious to the writing.

MelodyO said:
Your comment makes me painfully aware that I don't know what market I'm trying to reach. The market that likes time-traveling, snarky, violent, fllirty action? SIGH. I'm actually starting to wonder if my novel can be salvaged. ::curls up into a ball::

My guess is that you already do know something of the market, and it's very likely what you're already reading now -- whatever books are on your shelves.

Bear this in mind, too: You should write for the kindest, wittiest, most intelligent audience in the world. Write for yourself. Harlan Ellison said something like that, or very nearly like it. (He's pretty good at this writing thing.)

ap123 · Jun 7, 2007

Keeping in mind that I'm not a regular SF reader, I say go with what makes sense to you as a writer, and the level of explicitness that you as a person are comfortable with.

I say try it, and then write forward. Go back after you have built on the story and see if it still seems to fit/make sense.

Good luck

Writer2011 · Jun 7, 2007

Write it if you want--if the editor/agent/whatever doesn't like it, they will tell you.

Scrawler · Jun 7, 2007

I find most sex scenes boring. "And then he did this, and she did that and he moaned and she did this, then he put it there, and she said ooh." Yawn. Once you get past the initial ripping off the clothes, the thrill is gone.

Death Wizard · Jun 7, 2007

My six-book series contains seven or eight explicit sex scenes, though none are longer than three pages and all are crucial to the plot (at least in my opinion). So we're talking maybe 15-20 pages of sex out of 2,800 pages. Because of this, I've asked quite a few different people how they feel about reading explicit sex, and I've been surprised by how many do not like reading it one bit. There's no doubt that when you include explicit sex and graphic violence in your writing, you shut yourself out of a very thriving YA market. Personally, it's the direction I wanted to go with this series, but my next fantasy might drift from what is now hard R to PG or less. YA, or at least something relatively tame, sure seems to be the way to go right now.

Should I be dirty? Y/N

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