Cover art?

Fenika · Jun 5, 2007

(Mods, if there is a better place for this, please feel free to move. I couldn't figure out where else to put it)

Okay, so I'm getting wayyy ahead of myself as I only just started writing my novel, but I would like some cover art done. I was admiring the work done by an online friend and asked if she'd do my cover (for money of course). She agreed, but we couldn't even begin to get sorted about how we should work this out between us. She can give me a price if I can figure out what I want/need, but how are these arrangements typically made? She knows more about it than I do and said typically she would retain copyright and give the publisher the rights to use it, but there were other situations as well.

So how do I initially sort this out (between her and myself) and later (between her, the publisher, and I)

Help!
Cheers,
Christina

dantem42 · Jun 6, 2007

I suspect you're being wildly overoptimistic. If a publisher buys your book, the publisher has by far the biggest say in cover art. You might have the right of refusal in your contract, but you can't overdo it or you'll hold up your project and maybe even imperil your chances to publish. The chances of you getting your own cover art in there are pretty slim. Of course they'll probably agree to look at it, but it will probably be lip service unless you've already got a couple of bestsellers out there and can twist some arms.

You may do better planning on employing this art on your own website advertising yourself and your book.

scottVee · Jun 6, 2007

I agree with dantem. Still so many steps to go. Big publishers handle the art their own way. Little publishers may give you an option to provide cover art, then and only then will you need art. And, unless your friend knows book cover design specifically, they may not be the best bet for book cover design. It's not just "any old art."

Jamesaritchie · Jun 6, 2007

Cover art

Unless you're self-publishing, cover art is the responsibility of the publisher. The publisher may allow some input, but the marketing department will probably determine what the cover art will be. You may not even know the cover art is being done until after it's finished and on the cover.

The publisher may, or may not, agree to look at your friend's artwork, but odds are they won't want it. They have their own artists, and cover art is a business decision, not an aesthetic one.

The job of the writer is to write. The job of the publisher is to put the book together in a way that stands the best chance of making readers buy it, and cover art is part of this procedure.

Just write the book the best way you can and let the publisher worry about the cover art.

Fenika · Jun 6, 2007

This whole project started out with Wildly Overoptimistic written all over it

Okay, if I asked my friend to do a sketch for my own benefit (for my future website and to give me something pretty to look at while I write this book) and then... actually, I think I'm going nuts just trying to think up the question... between copyright and use and everything else I'm in over my head

All I can say is I better get veto rights on the cover art!

Cheers,
Christina

jchines · Jun 6, 2007

I had zero input on my first two covers, and .001% of the input for number three.

You might get a bit more of a voice with a smaller publisher, and like Jamesaritchie said, if you self-publish it's all on you. But it's way too early in the process to be worrying about the cover.

And yes, in most cases these days the artist creates the painting and the publisher buys the rights to use it for the book. For a major publisher, you're also talking about thousands of dollars to buy those rights from the artist.

Jamesaritchie · Jun 6, 2007

Bahamutchild said:
All I can say is I better get veto rights on the cover art!

Cheers,
Christina

I wouldn't count on vetoing anything, and you shouldn't. You're a writer, not a marketer, and while you may know what you like and what you don't like, what you think is pretty and what you think is ugly, odds are you know nothing about why one cover sells books while another, perhaps prettier cover, doesn't.

Let the experts do the job they're trained to do. You're the expert writer. So write as expertly as possible. But when you sell a book, other experts come into play. The first will be your editor. He or she will be an expert at shaping the book into a better novel. Let him do his job.

And let the experts in the art department and the marketing department do their jobs.

Memnon624 · Jun 6, 2007

What JAR said. And, to take it a step beyond, you also don't have the last word on what your title will be. You may be consulted, given a list of what marketing/the editor think are more appropriate titles, even get asked if you have alternate titles. In the end, though, marketing has the last word.

With commercial publishing, all you really have control over is writing a good book. Everything else is in the hands of your publisher. Harsh, but it stings less if you learn to deal with it now.

Scott

PS: On my first two books, I was consulted about the covers. My publisher ended up using variations of my original ideas -- but the variations were the artist's doing, and he is a brilliant guy. I don't expect my current publisher will give me much of a choice, but I'm okay with that.

S

Chumplet · Jun 6, 2007

Having a cover design in your head while writing the book can keep you inspired, but there's little chance you'll see it come to fruition. That being said, I asked for input on the cover design when my book was published by a small press, and THEIR artist and I worked together on the cover. I used a lot of my own elements, and she helped with the typesetting and some background art that wasn't copyrighted. All in all, it looks pretty spiffy.

Fenika · Jun 6, 2007

Geeze, they claim the title too? How utterly strange...

I'm just woried they'll do something absurd like put lots of fancy dragons on the cover... it's Dragon CHILD, not DRAGON Child (the child being of course of the human variety)...

Oh well, I'll take ya'lls advice and write my book. I might end up with flat out rejection anyways

Cheers,
Christina

rugcat · Jun 6, 2007

Jamesaritchie said:
The job of the writer is to write. The job of the publisher is to put the book together in a way that stands the best chance of making readers buy it, and cover art is part of this procedure.

I got no input at all on the cover of my first book ever, and it was truly horrible.

On my current one, miraculously, I was asked for character descriptions, etc.

But remember, esp in genre,the publisher uses a certain style of cover art that helps to identify their books so that prospective readers of similar books will get a sense of what to expect. Hopefully, if they liked other books that looked somewhat the same, that will help them decide to buy it. So even if your friend produces a great cover that you, and even they, love as art, it's not going to fly.

Claudia Gray · Jun 6, 2007

A lot of publishers will let you make suggestions about cover art, but in terms of getting a veto or getting to pick the artist? You have to be at the Neil Gaiman/Stephen King stage before you get that kind of say. (And I would imagine those guys mostly let the design folks do their job.)

For my part, I got to write a memo: Instead of suggesting specific images (seriously, what do I know about what sells?), I talked about several strongly visual scenes in the book and certain recurring themes. I thought that would help the art department start brainstorming. But if it comes back with a dancing clown on the cover, I pretty much have to smile and say, "Great!"

(It's a book about vampires, FYI.)

Lauri B · Jun 6, 2007

Publishers determine the artwork for covers. You may or may not have any say in the matter whatsoever. Save your money.

Jamesaritchie · Jun 6, 2007

Bahamutchild said:
Geeze, they claim the title too? How utterly strange...

I'm just woried they'll do something absurd like put lots of fancy dragons on the cover... it's Dragon CHILD, not DRAGON Child

Cheers,
Christina

Yes, they get to give it the title, as well. But if your title is a good one, they may well keep it. They try to change bad titles, not good ones. Though a good title will probably be changed if another, very famous book has already used it.

As for Dragon CHILD, who knows, the cover art might be a poodle licking a lollipop.

It's all about marketing. The words inside are what should matter to you. All cover art does is draw the reader to the book, preferably from a distance, and preferably in favor of surrounding books.

Once this is done, the jacket copy, if written well, gives an exciting, intriguing preview of what's inside.

If this works, then the read opens the book to page one, and here your wonderful words get to work their magic. Cover art and jacket copy are forgotten, teh reader is enthralled, and MUST buy the book.

dantem42 · Jun 6, 2007

Jamesaritchie said:
As for Dragon CHILD, who knows, the cover art might be a poodle licking a lollipop.

It's all about marketing. The words inside are what should matter to you. All cover art does is draw the reader to the book, preferably from a distance, and preferably in favor of surrounding books.

Once this is done, the jacket copy, if written well, gives an exciting, intriguing preview of what's inside.

If this works, then the read opens the book to page one, and here your wonderful words get to work their magic. Cover art and jacket copy are forgotten, teh reader is enthralled, and MUST buy the book.

I think James has it nailed (though my soon-to-be-published serial killer thriller could do without the dog and the lollipop).

If there's any place to expend your energy in terms of dealing with the publisher, it's making sure that between you and your editor, you are pleased by what ends up between the covers. This can occasionally be dicey, especially if they ask for a major cut in length (not all that uncommon for a first-timer). But most editors are pretty savvy people, and for the most part you won't find your content savaged unless there are places where it should be. Now the film studios are another matter...

RLSMiller · Jun 7, 2007

To be honest, cover art and titles aren't things that I worry about too much. I mean, publishers have art and marketing people for a reason - surely they know what will work best? It's not like they're going to give you a dud title and cover art, because they're trying to make the book as attractive as possible to potential buyers. It would be counter-productive for the publisher to package a great book in lame wrapping.

Ali B · Jun 7, 2007

Hi,
I have done cover illustrations professionally, and it's not a copyright that the artist gets to keep. Most designers realize that when they create art for businesses they are selling the ownership of that work. You may specify that they can use the art in their portfolios, but that's it.
I wouldn't worry about it, thought. A publisher will assign you an in-house artist.

AndreaGS · Jun 25, 2007

I've had a couple aspiring authors approach me with this sort of proposed arrangement, and I've told them basically what everyone's saying here: that they likely won't get a say in what's put on the cover.

I'm still hoping against hope that I'll be able to do my own cover artwork. Right now I'm working a bit on the side, painting some possible covers for my story. I've finished one (http://vividreamsart.com/helen10.jpg), and I'm working on a couple others. I'm hanging on to the dream that when I finish revising and find someone to pick up my novel, I can say "Hey! I've already painted some possible covers!" and maybe, just MAYBE, they'll give me a chance.

*sigh*

OmenSpirits.com · Jun 25, 2007

AndreaGS said:
I've had a couple aspiring authors approach me with this sort of proposed arrangement, and I've told them basically what everyone's saying here: that they likely won't get a say in what's put on the cover.

I'm still hoping against hope that I'll be able to do my own cover artwork. Right now I'm working a bit on the side, painting some possible covers for my story. I've finished one (http://vividreamsart.com/helen10.jpg), and I'm working on a couple others. I'm hanging on to the dream that when I finish revising and find someone to pick up my novel, I can say "Hey! I've already painted some possible covers!" and maybe, just MAYBE, they'll give me a chance.

*sigh*

Hey, did you paint that in the traditional way, or in a program like Photoshop? If in photoshop type program, got any material on the process?

AndreaGS · Jun 25, 2007

It's a digital painting, done in Photoshop CS. I've PMed you so as not to thread-hijack

Fenika · Jun 25, 2007

No, no, no, Hijack away as your art is amazing.
Please post (or PM) me the info!
Cheers,
Christina

AndreaGS · Jun 27, 2007

Gosh, thanks! I used to do contract work, but at the moment I work full-time and I'm working on revising my novel, so I do it on the side just for me.

As I stated earlier, I painted it in photoshop cs, with a wacom intuos2, which is a pressure-sensitive tablet. If you start with http://vividreamsart.com/helen1.jpg and go up through http://vividreamsart.com/helen10.jpg, you can see the process I went through for this painting.

I use a similar sort of technique as I do for oil paintings - layering color on top of color. I set opacity from 60-80% on my brushes to achieve slight transparency in layers. The process really isn't that different, except I get to use an undo button

greywaren · Jul 1, 2007

I've always wondered about this, too. I'm an artist - it's my job - and I can't help but design covers for each of my novels, even if I know that they're just for me. But now as an editor is looking seriously at my latest, I'm wondering if I could even broach the subject of doing my own cover art. Of course, taking the illustrator's cut would be fun too . . .

This is my latest, I kinda like it: http://greywarenart.blogspot.com/2007/06/fantasizing.html

Citizen Rob · Jul 26, 2007

There's obviously some variation from contract to contract. My contract locked in the title I chose (although in my case I suspect that's because I happened to have a strong title), but my editor and the marketing crew came up with the subtitle. But even then, they asked for my subtitle suggestions and eventually used part of my choice in their final wording.

I also had the right to consultation on the cover design in my contract, but the final decision was theirs. I have no idea how much say I would have gotten if I'd fought their choice since they pretty much hit a home run right off the bat. But I also had worked as a freelance photographer and had a million photos for them to choose from, and the one they chose was pretty clearly the best for a multitude of reasons.

I think I've sort of lucked out, though. Not every author has a positive covert art experience, and he's even with the same publisher that I am.

The best advice I keep reading is to pick your battles carefully and concentrate on the writing. Publishers know how to sell books, that's their job. There are a lot of books out there with inaccurate covers, but I suspect they sold better because of it.

Mostly, though, you shouldn't obsess over the cover art because 1) you have much more depressing things to worry about first, and 2) even in the best case scenario, there's probably not much you'll be able to do about it when the time comes.

Best of luck! Go write your book now!

Anonymisty · Jul 27, 2007

Bahamutchild said:
All I can say is I better get veto rights on the cover art!

I know not every cover turns out beautifully. I was a little worried that my book, being about a female pirate, might end with a cover that implied "Captain Boobalicious". Yikes! But I trusted my publisher and voila! They did the book great justice, and I'm just thrilled.

(Mine's in the middle, bottom row.)

Cover art?

Fenika

dantem42

scottVee

Jamesaritchie

Fenika

jchines

Got the hang of it, here

Jamesaritchie

Memnon624

A Boy and his Orc . . .

Chumplet

This hat is getting too hot

Fenika

rugcat

Lost in the Fog

Claudia Gray

Lauri B

I Heart Mac

Jamesaritchie

dantem42

RLSMiller

Ali B

Just Hanging Around

AndreaGS

OmenSpirits.com

AndreaGS

Fenika

AndreaGS

greywaren

Citizen Rob

I'm swell.

Anonymisty