Too many ideas!

perspiringwriter · Jun 3, 2007

Hi! I am an unpublished non-fiction writer. I just joined this site today to ask this question. My main problem is I get ideas much faster than I can write abut them. I have several ideas for books, which I believe will be important. Sorry, but I'd rather not go into the specific topics... Anyway,
I've been working on one manuscript in particular over the last couple of years. It is now at least halfway finished. Meanwhile, as I said I have other ideas for books. I made one into a slideshow and the other one is almost a completed slideshow for a small group. The ideas in those slideshows should be published in articles because they are too important to wait until I finally finish the first book, then research and write about them - each would be a book in itself. I think the articles alone should fetch a significant fee, not based on word count or standard journalist's fee by any means. The organization I would like to sell the articles to has deep pockets anyway (annual budget in the $ millions) and a huge motivation to publish ideas exactly like mine. Let's just say my work is a combination of religious/philosophical/scientific. I would want to retain book publishing rights but at least get articles published to get the important ideas out to a wide audience. I would want to sell web and print publishing rights for the articles only, and don't want to go around giving talks about my topic.

My question is, what approach should I take to get a reasonable fee for any articles I write? If responding, please assume these would be really important, factual, and influential articles. (Ultimately, others will decide that.) Is it unheard of to try to get a literary agent just for a couple of long articles? Or should I just send this organization an email with my slideshows and demand the fee that I think it's worth? If they don't agree, then what? Just sit and hope some of my ideas don't infiltrate into their own writing? I like this organization, but am not going to give them articles for a stupid little fee that bears no relationship to the enormous benefit they would be getting. Thanks for any help on this.

johnrobison · Jun 4, 2007

Unless you and I have very different ideas about what constitutes a "significant fee," you may be headed for disappointment.

Most magazine publishers think a few hundred dollars is "significant" and a few thousand is huge and extravagant.

As you may know, literary agents work for a 15% commission. The commission on the sale of articles like this just isn't enough to entice anyone to represent you unless there's much more in the background.

I'd suggest you write pitches for your articles and send them to the publishers you have in mind. I'd recommend omitting any specific financial demands -see what they offer. Your first hurdle is getting your work accepted for publication at all. Having done that, you can consider accepting their offer or trying to negotiate something better.

Julie Worth · Jun 4, 2007

perspiringwriter said:
Is it unheard of to try to get a literary agent just for a couple of long articles?

It would be easier for you to try to sell them yourself.

perspiringwriter said:
Or should I just send this organization an email with my slideshows and demand the fee that I think it's worth?

This would put you in the nut category. Follow their submission procedures and don't make demands.

perspiringwriter said:
If they don't agree, then what? Just sit and hope some of my ideas don't infiltrate into their own writing? I like this organization, but am not going to give them articles for a stupid little fee that bears no relationship to the enormous benefit they would be getting.

It's not clear that you're talking about a publishing company. Perhaps it's a think tank? In any case, almost every American has ideas that, if published and promoted, would be at least as good as any already out there. The problem is that the publishing world is only going to take you seriously if you have publishing credits, and/or a significant platform. If you're some nationally known TV minister, for instance.

You might find this thread of interest.

byarvin · Jun 4, 2007

Perspiringwriter:

It sounds to me like you're worrying about the wrong stuff.

As you become more experienced you'll see that "ideas" are less important. What counts is execution. An excellent proposal for an idea that's been done well a hundred times before is more likely to get you a successful book deal than a unique one that doen't convince the editor.

You'd be much better off polishing a proposal, promoting your ideas with articles, and becoming a public expert in what you want to write about instead of keeping it a secrect and hoping nobody else writes about it.

Now that I've got 3 books under my belt, I have a whole different view of "ideas." To me, an "idea" means a fully concieved proposal and outline, not just something flitting around in my head. I know people who can spin of titles and topics for four or five books in an afternoon of idle chat, but they never put pen to paper. Meanwhile, others, who have nothing more than a fresh take on something done a hundred times before and getting book deals every day.

AND...agents are for big publisher book deals, your goal should be to get your stuff out there in any way you can.

perspiringwriter · Jun 4, 2007

"It's not clear that you're talking about a publishing company.
Perhaps it's a think tank?"

It's a think tank.

"In any case, almost every American has ideas that, if published and promoted, would be at least as good as any already out there."

Are you serious, or is this an egalitarian game of "let's pretend" where we reduce everyone to the least common denominator? The fact that there are millions of self-deluded pretenders doesn't dismiss the possibility, though rare, of real genius. Again, I was just asking responders to pretend this is the case, though it is somehow more satisfying to pretend everyone's a genius.

"The problem is that the publishing world is only going to take you seriously if you have publishing credits, and/or a significant platform. If you're some nationally known TV minister, for instance."

It's a think tank so they should, at least in theory, be able to recognize significant work in their particular field better than a publishing house, and should be able and willing to pay more. However, money does tend to flow most readily to those who are already well known. For articles, it is difficult to track the views and impact on the bottom line, so they probably just like to pay standard fees unless one has a Ph.D. after their name. There are no commissions as there are with books. This leads to another question...

Can I get someone to write my books without paying them tens of thousands of dollars up front? Maybe give them a cut of the commission?

perspiringwriter · Jun 4, 2007

byarvin said:
Perspiringwriter:

It sounds to me like you're worrying about the wrong stuff.

As you become more experienced you'll see that "ideas" are less important. What counts is execution. An excellent proposal for an idea that's been done well a hundred times before is more likely to get you a successful book deal than a unique one that doen't convince the editor.

You'd be much better off polishing a proposal, promoting your ideas with articles, and becoming a public expert in what you want to write about instead of keeping it a secrect and hoping nobody else writes about it.

Now that I've got 3 books under my belt, I have a whole different view of "ideas." To me, an "idea" means a fully concieved proposal and outline, not just something flitting around in my head. I know people who can spin of titles and topics for four or five books in an afternoon of idle chat, but they never put pen to paper. Meanwhile, others, who have nothing more than a fresh take on something done a hundred times before and getting book deals every day.

AND...agents are for big publisher book deals, your goal should be to get your stuff out there in any way you can.

Believe me, putting these ideas into slideshow format was a lot of work, and I created an "audio" portion (in text) to go along with the slides. So the ideas are very well fleshed out. In writing a book, obviously further research and writing is needed, but essentially, the book outline and proposal already exists. I would just have to write the proposal. No sense in doing that until I'm at least ready to begin writing a book, so I guess I just have to write articles for now. Thanks.

Julie Worth · Jun 4, 2007

perspiringwriter said:
Can I get someone to write my books without paying them tens of thousands of dollars up front? Maybe give them a cut of the commission?

For sure. William Bennett did, and made his co-writers rich. Of course, he had a platform, having been secretary of education.

perspiringwriter · Jun 4, 2007

Answer to my own question?

"Can I get someone to write my books without paying them tens of thousands of dollars up front? Maybe give them a cut of the commission?"

I thought about this question, and just based on my experience as a book browser, I might know the answer. Let's say I publish an article and there's a lot of buzz about it. A book publisher might contact me and say, why not write a book on this topic? If I'm too busy they might find another recognized expert to be co-writer (I would be the main author since my article made me the expert on that) or they might find an anonymous writer to help me with it.
Any comments welcome.

perspiringwriter · Jun 4, 2007

Ideas

Julie Worth said:
For sure. William Bennett did, and made his co-writers rich. Of course, he had a platform, having been secretary of education.

Thanks. As for Bennett, clearly irresponsible gambling must not be considered a very bad thing in our society, unlike getting a bj.

By the way, I would acknowledge nearly all people have some unique, God-given skill, talent, or niche. However, more often life is like a really bad "American Idol" show. I would hate to be an editor having to send out all the reject notices.

Sassenach · Jun 4, 2007

Ideas are easy; execution of them is hard.

Have you queried this organization?

pollykahl · Jun 4, 2007

HI and welcome perspiring. I had been working on my book for some time before finding this site, and since finding it I have discovered that a lot of my ideas about how successful writing and publishing works were pretty naive. Although discovering that reality was a little disappointing, becoming a part of this site has really helped me tighten my work and step up my game. You just joined today and you say you only joined to ask a question. There's a lot to look at here and it will give you a better idea of how to proceed with your project. Here's a great thread which will answer a lot of your questions. There are many others as well.

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22176

IMO it's important to approach agents and publishers correctly the first time, because there won't be a second time. Your success as a writer of anything depends on much more than your opinion that you have a great idea. There are all kinds of threads here about how much you can expect to be paid, when agents are needed and how to find one, all aspects of finding a publisher, working with ghost writers, etc. Learn everything you can about how the field works so that you approach success as professionally as possible.

This site will best serve you if you come and join in the community. You probably have some good ideas and feedback you could share with the rest of us. If you just hop in, ask a couple of questions, and then hop out again, you are missing a great opportunity to learn about the entire field of writing, which you need to understand to find success in even a narrow part of it.

pollykahl · Jun 4, 2007

Here's another thread that shows what it's like if we do things incorrectly. This is why I think it's important to understand this field from all angles. Evem if we mean well we can make silly mistakes and end up creating bad feelings or burning bridges that we might one day wish we could still cross over.
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66203

perspiringwriter · Jun 4, 2007

Book idea

I can see reasons not to publish an article if I want to write a book about the same topic. There is a thread in Freelance Writing on the topic, Article Based on yet-unpublished book. The person got this advice:

"absolutely, under no circumstances publish anything from the book"

"Seems to me it would be good to have a few articles published that are directly related to the book. It is. You don't want to give away the book"

"you don't want to give away the meat of the book in an article"

I think that's probably good advice. Thanks to everyone who said the main idea behind my book doesn't matter anyway, and that it's all about how I sell it. Okay, right...

Ziljon · Jun 4, 2007

Please, Perspiringwriter, can't you give us more of an inkling as to what these ideas are about? You've got us all curious, it's only fair...

Lauri B · Jun 5, 2007

perspiringwriter said:
"Can I get someone to write my books without paying them tens of thousands of dollars up front? Maybe give them a cut of the commission?"

I thought about this question, and just based on my experience as a book browser, I might know the answer. Let's say I publish an article and there's a lot of buzz about it. A book publisher might contact me and say, why not write a book on this topic? If I'm too busy they might find another recognized expert to be co-writer (I would be the main author since my article made me the expert on that) or they might find an anonymous writer to help me with it.
Any comments welcome.

Hi perspiring,
It would definitely depend on where and when your article is published. It could happen, but it's not likely unless you are already an established expert in your field. If so, then you should submit to the most influential publications in your field and go from there. Any published articles will be strong publishing credits when you do write your book proposal.
Another comment you made upthread was that you have a solid outline which is almost a complete proposal in itself, which will help you when you are ready to write your book. Most nonfiction books are sold only on the proposal, and usually a few sample chapters. So why not finish the proposal, since it sounds like the most difficult parts of it are already done, and submit to publishers now? You can write the book when it's accepted.

Ziljon · Jun 5, 2007

Is there a link to the slideshows at least?

perspiringwriter · Jun 5, 2007

Nomad said:
Hi perspiring,
It would definitely depend on where and when your article is published. It could happen, but it's not likely unless you are already an established expert in your field. If so, then you should submit to the most influential publications in your field and go from there. Any published articles will be strong publishing credits when you do write your book proposal.
Another comment you made upthread was that you have a solid outline which is almost a complete proposal in itself, which will help you when you are ready to write your book. Most nonfiction books are sold only on the proposal, and usually a few sample chapters. So why not finish the proposal, since it sounds like the most difficult parts of it are already done, and submit to publishers now? You can write the book when it's accepted.

I may just write an article, put up a website, and sell the article. Maybe I will make the slideshow into a video because that would go for a little more money. I'm the type who doesn't care much if a big name publisher or think tank doesn't appreciate my work right away. If the idea can't sell itself, why bother? I'm not a salesman.

Also, I don't fully understand this thing about getting a publisher to accept a book proposal. If I think a project is worthwhile I will do it. There's always the self-publishing option in the unlikely event that no publisher is interested in the final product. I guess selling the idea to a publisher in advance almost seems like saying, "I'm not sure if anyone would be interested in this... What do you think?"

Anyway, what about all the times a publisher says sure, we'll publish that, only for the writer to do a sh*tty job on the rest of it? I doubt the publisher has much of a commitment there! lol I'm planning to do a good job, but still, what does the writer get out of this?

perspiringwriter · Jun 5, 2007

no link

Ziljon said:
Is there a link to the slideshows at least?

Sorry but no, the slideshow was for a limited audience. I didn't mention the idea as being important just to try to titillate anyone, but only because I thought it was related to my question, which I now think it wasn't. After all, most books have a central idea behind them (plot line, etc) that is unique to that book. I don't think it's a good idea to give that away in advance. However, in this case I don't mind if people are paying for the article. Feedback on the article could even help me write a better book down the road. I could let you know if/when I make a website.

AncientEagle · Jun 5, 2007

perspiringwriter said:
I
Also, I don't fully understand this thing about getting a publisher to accept a book proposal. If I think a project is worthwhile I will do it. There's always the self-publishing option in the unlikely event that no publisher is interested in the final product. I guess selling the idea to a publisher in advance almost seems like saying, "I'm not sure if anyone would be interested in this... What do you think?"

That you don't understand it doesn't change the fact that the system works that way generally. Did you really want answers and suggestions from some experienced writers and editiors, or just agreement with your ideas about how publishing should work?

perspiringwriter · Jun 6, 2007

the system

AncientEagle said:
That you don't understand it doesn't change the fact that the system works that way generally. Did you really want answers and suggestions from some experienced writers and editiors, or just agreement with your ideas about how publishing should work?

I wrote that I don't "fully" understand it, and I do think I made some good points. Based on the points I made, I don't feel it is necessary for everyone to get pre-publication acceptance. However, I'm sure it works for many people and many book ideas to keep potential authors from spinning their wheels on doomed projects. I came here to ask questions and to hear (read) any objections to my own ideas and thinking about it. The lack of significant counterpoints thus far is itself educational, although I'm certainly still open to ideas and will continue to watch this thread.
Nobody comes onto this board as a completely blank slate.

Sassenach · Jun 6, 2007

Greetings from this planet to yours.

Lauri B · Jun 6, 2007

perspiringwriter said:
I may just write an article, put up a website, and sell the article. Maybe I will make the slideshow into a video because that would go for a little more money. I'm the type who doesn't care much if a big name publisher or think tank doesn't appreciate my work right away. If the idea can't sell itself, why bother? I'm not a salesman.

Also, I don't fully understand this thing about getting a publisher to accept a book proposal. If I think a project is worthwhile I will do it. There's always the self-publishing option in the unlikely event that no publisher is interested in the final product. I guess selling the idea to a publisher in advance almost seems like saying, "I'm not sure if anyone would be interested in this... What do you think?"

Anyway, what about all the times a publisher says sure, we'll publish that, only for the writer to do a sh*tty job on the rest of it? I doubt the publisher has much of a commitment there! lol I'm planning to do a good job, but still, what does the writer get out of this?

Hi again,
Well, the reason most people submit proposals to publishers for nf books is that they want to make some money on the project, rather than spend a huge amount of time researching and writing only to find that the idea is unsellable. Publishers are pretty careful about what projects they take on exactly so they don't end up working with an author who does a terrible job. They assess not only the proposal idea, but also the sample chapters, the author's previous credits, etc. I'm not sure what to make of your comment re: "i doubt the publisher has much of a commitment there." In almost all cases, the publisher offers an advance to the writer to complete the book, so the publisher absolutely has a commitment to the project.

I appreciate your enthusiasm, perspiring, but I think you might benefit from doing a little more research into how publishing works.

perspiringwriter · Jun 6, 2007

book proposals

Nomad said:
Hi again,
Well, the reason most people submit proposals to publishers for nf books is that they want to make some money on the project, rather than spend a huge amount of time researching and writing only to find that the idea is unsellable. Publishers are pretty careful about what projects they take on exactly so they don't end up working with an author who does a terrible job. They assess not only the proposal idea, but also the sample chapters, the author's previous credits, etc. I'm not sure what to make of your comment re: "i doubt the publisher has much of a commitment there." In almost all cases, the publisher offers an advance to the writer to complete the book, so the publisher absolutely has a commitment to the project.

I appreciate your enthusiasm, perspiring, but I think you might benefit from doing a little more research into how publishing works.

You wrote some things that I didn't know. So much better than the people who only want to put me down. I certainly didn't log in here as someone already pretending to know everything.

Button · Jun 11, 2007

Paraphrasing your comments, you're a genius with an idea that you want to sell for millions of dollars, but you don't have time to write a full book. On top of that, you assume people should just 'love' your idea and will do whatever you want to get it pushed out there. Publishers, who have been at this business for years and years, ought to take a new 'idealist' under their wings and give into your demands.

Must be some terrific idea.

I'm sorry to be so blunt but this is what you are sounding like. Believe me, agents and publishers have had people try to waltz in with an idea, thinking they are above rules and guidelines, and assume they will be paid what they ask without question if they only got the concept of your idea.

Ideas aren't good enough to sell. Proposals sell, manuscripts sell, clearly written and great articles sell. And they all have a set price. We do things in a certain way for magazines and book publishers BECAUSE they have built upon centuries of experience. They know from your first query if the idea is for them or not. They can tell from a book proposal if your idea will fly. They do not submit to demands, they do not work with people that think they are above rules and can do whatever they want and expect people to submit it all because of some idea.

If you think some people here are being insulting because they aren't hip with your thoughts on what you should deserve, you've got a lot of problems coming your way. I don't want to discourage you, and neither does anyone else, but from your comments, you SOUND like you don't care about the experience of others, you just want what you want. If you are not really like that then you need to tone down your demands and LISTEN to the voices of experience and what they are trying to share with you.

You need a trip to Snarkville. http://misssnark.blogspot.com

Okay, on the other part, you're creating a website, writing articles, all well and good. But you just said you're not a salesman, yet you want to write a book to self publish? Are you going to hire a salesman to sell it for you? Have you fully decided to self publish at this point or is that just an idea? You've spun off a lot of ideas right now, are you really sure of your direction? I think you need to sit down with your idea and some books on self publishing and regular publishing and figure out what it is you really want.

perspiringwriter · Jul 1, 2007

Button the Cat

ButtontheCat,

Interesting signature line:
"I'm free from the corporate world! I'm a writer with no money!"

Your response was so full of deliberate misunderstandings that I'm getting the impression you're a frustrated writer (subconsciously perhaps) seeking satisfaction in putting others down.

I do give most publishers credit for the very thing with which you claim to credit them: "They can tell from your book proposal if your idea will fly." I honestly pray and hope that that is how the world works and not that everything is about politics and salesmanship.

I want to give you your due, so please sum up for me the important message everyone is trying to share with me that you think I'm ignoring. Is it that I'm a mediocre writer completely at the mercy of publishers? Seriously, what is it exactly because I really want to know...

Finally, I'm here to ask questions and seek direction. I haven't already decided on what I will do.

Too many ideas!

perspiringwriter

johnrobison

A Free Range Aspergian

Julie Worth

What? I have a title?

byarvin

Here!

perspiringwriter

perspiringwriter

Julie Worth

What? I have a title?

perspiringwriter

perspiringwriter

Sassenach

5 W's & an H

pollykahl

pollykahl

perspiringwriter

Ziljon

Tortilla di Patate

Lauri B

I Heart Mac

Ziljon

Tortilla di Patate

perspiringwriter

perspiringwriter

AncientEagle

Old kid, no need to be gentle.

perspiringwriter

Sassenach

5 W's & an H

Lauri B

I Heart Mac

perspiringwriter

Button

Resident in Question

perspiringwriter