Sleeping, waking up, eating, etc.

RG570 · May 30, 2007

I thought I was finished with my latest novel, but I've started obsessing again, and have started reading it over for the thousandth time.

Now I'm freaking out because I have about three or four scenes near bedtime, two or three of people waking up (though I don't start the novel or introduce characters this way), and a handful where they're eating.

I know it's a beginner's mistake to follow every little detail of your character's lives, and can't believe I'd fall into that so easily. Are these little scenes ever justified? I mean, to me they advance the plot and hint that these people have lives outside of the story, but I just don't know anymore. Betas have said nothing about it, but I don't think they usually catch that kind of thing.

scarletpeaches · May 30, 2007

I have one scene in a WIP I've put on the backburner for now where the female MC wakes up and quickly goes through her morning routine. It's only mentioned once, in the first chapter, as a way of showing how anal she is about cleanliness and how everything in her house is set out a particular way. If a beta or editor raised the subject I'd have to think of another way to illustrate her character but thought this would be the best way to do it.

If it shows character, I guess it's okay but if it reads like a shopping list of activities it doesn't need to be there.

JoNightshade · May 30, 2007

I don't follow every detail of my characters' lives, but frankly like 50% of my WIP conflict occurs while people are 1) eating or 2) getting ready for bed.

The question you need to ask yourself is, are those scenes necessary? Do they contribute to the plot in some way? For instance, I have a scene where, during dinner, my MC accidentally calls his father-figure "dad." He's so embarrassed that he gets up and runs out of the room. So yeah, they were eating-- but it accomplished something. Another character is borderline suicidal, so the MC checks on him every night before he goes to bed. I don't include him checking in EVERY night, but it certainly happens more than once.

JoNightshade · May 30, 2007

Another thought: If you're having issues with getting your character from A to B to C (but A and B are kinda boring), consider either condensing the action into one explanatory sentence ("After dropping off the package at the post office and running the kids to school, Anita dropped by her mother's.")

OR if you don't want to cut, you can do something with it-- make it interesting somehow. Another example from my WIP - last night I was fretting because my character needed to go from the kitchen to the bathroom to the bedroom, and I HAD to describe it because he needed to get something from the bathroom. But how boring is that? So instead, when he walks into the bathroom, he discovers the household dog sitting on the toilet. It's funny and, after talking to the dog, he realizes how very nutty living here has made him become-- thus furthering his character development.

RG570 · May 30, 2007

Well, my novel moves at quite a clip, and it's quite tense, so I think what I had in mind at the time was to give the reader a rest, if only for a few paragraphs.

The scene I'm freaking over is actually two, really. At the end of one chapter, they've all discussed what they need to do in the morning and work out their plans on how to get out of the mess they're in. The next chapter starts in the morning, and one character seems more concerned with having a shower than solving their problems, and I have been trying to increase tension between this character and the more serious character.

I do the same thing later on-- ending a chapter at night, where I have some relationship building going on, and picking up as they wake up. Of course, what wakes the character up in that case is smoke from a forest fire that will complicate matters for them, but I'm not sure if that makes it okay to recycle the same, uh, format, I guess.

Then I have one more bed-scene, but this time the character is sleep deprived and trying to rest before something big happens, and others keep pestering him about other personal issues. That one's more like a nap, in the end. I guess I could just have him do something else and have the same conversations take place.

So it's not exactly the case of a shopping list of robotic actions, but me using the opportunity to work out internal struggles and relationships, since much of this story is externally motivated. I'm just worried that an editor or agent is going to pick up on this pattern and scream "Amateur! Go away! EEW! I don't care about bedtime pillow talk!" and flush the manuscript down the toilet after showing it to their coworkers for a good laugh.

yes, I sure am obsessing.

justpat · May 30, 2007

I think in the case of Scarlet, where her scene is there for a specific reason, that it is fine. If you can think of no really good reason why the scene is there, then cut it.

Shady Lane · May 30, 2007

I tend to take a lot of my chapters from morning until night, so I have a lot of these secnes as well.

I don't think it's a problem. As long as the character is interesting, and as long as your accomplishing them, you could throw them in a passive white room and it would be brilliant.

Azure Skye · May 30, 2007

There's a lot of eating going on in my book too. Only one morning routine scene. Those scenes aren't thrown in there for the fun of it. All of them reveal a great deal about the characters involved and have hints of the plot in them. But, as I was thinking about all this eating, I was going to have my MC make a comment about how much eating she's been doing lately -- some sort of amusing comment -- but I changed my mind. I'm not sure if that would fly. Heh heh.

Danger Jane · May 30, 2007

If it shows character or plot--if it moves the story forward--, keep it. Otherwise, don't bother. I think eating, going to bed etc are used as examples of things that should be cut from a WIP because many authors needlessly include them.

SpookyWriter · May 30, 2007

RG570 said:
Now I'm freaking out because I have about three or four scenes near bedtime, two or three of people waking up (though I don't start the novel or introduce characters this way), and a handful where they're eating.

I like writing stories and sometimes the protagonist goes to sleep. But the BIG PICTURE is all the events (scenes) that make up the story. If going to bed or walking around the kitchen munching on a sandwich help you explain (tell) the story then there isn't anything wrong with it.

Yet, too much time in bed is harmful. So I've been told.

JoNightshade · May 30, 2007

RG570 - From what you've described, I don't think you have a problem at all. Keep them. When I am reading fast-paced, plot-driven novels, I enjoy having a few "cut scenes" where the characters just relax. I like to see how their relationships develop when they aren't faced with sudden death.

johnzakour · May 30, 2007

If you know the scenes work and help advance character or plot keep them in.

If there is doubt take them out.

eliflauta · May 30, 2007

If you want to justify the little scenes involving sleep, you might throw in a dream that progresses the plot. It could provide a little foreshadowing, or describe a person's inner personality or deepen emotions.

Claudia Gray · May 30, 2007

As long as they aren't JUST eating or getting ready for bed -- as long as they are having conversations or thoughts that move the story along -- you're fine.

Chasing the Horizon · May 30, 2007

I just realized I never actually show my characters eat in all 135,000 words of my novel. Huh. No wonder they stay thin.

I do show them waking up a lot, though, but that's because they get woken up by something like canon fire or the alarm bell or another character yelling. I show them going to bed a few times, mainly so I can show their thoughts on the dramatic events that happened earlier, or because they're discussing something worthwhile with their lovers.

People do need to eat, sleep, and wake up. So long as that's not the entire content of the scene and it serves a purpose in the story, I don't see what's wrong with it. My MC must be reading a book at the beginning of about ten scenes (usually someone runs in and says something so shocking he drops it, LOL). Your characters don't just sit around staring at walls between scenes, and realistically should be doing something when a scene begins. A brief sentence of their inane activity (like the book they're reading or TV show they're watching) can help build a 3D character without taking up a lot of space.

Anne Lyle · May 31, 2007

I moved one of my scenes from a restaurant to a study because I realised I had two eating scenes in a row - so I feel your pain!

I'd second the others' advice - if you're using these scenes to progress the plot, that's fine. People have to eat and sleep sometime, otherwise they're become like characters from cheesy action shows who have adventures but no actual life! The reason these domestic routines get pointed out as things to avoid is because a lot of beginners don't know how to handle transitions and jump-cuts - so they put everything in - and because beginning the book with a character waking up has been done sooo-ooo many times before...

Ziljon · May 31, 2007

I like eating scenes. I like to read and to describe and to eat food. And as for getting ready for bed, well, as long as there are interesting details; toenail clipping and armpit hair plucking, then I love that too.

Not to change the subject, but I often wonder about characters, particularly in fantasy outdoor journeys, going to the bathroom. How is it done? No one ever goes into it. And what about body odor?

misslissy · May 31, 2007

Well, this is just a side note about eating, but I thought I'd chime in after learning something rather interesting in my lit class about eating. There's a literary term/idea for eating with other people and it's called communion. It's used to show bonds and growth between the characters. Also, it could serve to show a lot of betrayal. For example, Mary and Joe are eating together and Joe stabs Mary, in the mind of the reader that will seem a lot more betrayal like because they were sharing a meal together, trusting and bonding and stuff like that. Just found it something interesting you guys might like to know. I haven't been able to find a link for it, but if I run across something I will.

Uma · May 31, 2007

Some critical scenes in my wip take place at the table and food actually helps to illustrate what's going on as well as the characters relation to food.

I didn't plan it, but I can see it pop up every now and then and it coincides with the story. I might need to chop it later, but it does help illustrate the character of my antag and protag at the moment.

Melanie Nilles · May 31, 2007

I can't add much more than what's been said except to ask if you're hungry and/or tired while you're writing. Are your needs coming out through your writing? If so, make sure you get adequate rest and food. Feed your mind first, then maybe it'll churn out something other than eating and sleeping scenes.

Just a thought.

Chumplet · May 31, 2007

Characters can't be standing in the middle of a void, doing nothing while they talk. Mealtimes are a great setting for pivotal scenes. For instance, a group can meet at a local restaurant to discuss their next move.

You can use their actions to accompany their dialogue -- dipping, chewing, waving food around, etc.

The type of food they eat can establish where they live or their ethnic background.

scarletpeaches · May 31, 2007

eliflauta said:
If you want to justify the little scenes involving sleep, you might throw in a dream that progresses the plot. It could provide a little foreshadowing, or describe a person's inner personality or deepen emotions.

Or if they're nowhere near a bathroom, have them throw up a little bit in their mouth.

NicoleMD · May 31, 2007

Melanie Nilles said:
I can't add much more than what's been said except to ask if you're hungry and/or tired while you're writing. Are your needs coming out through your writing? If so, make sure you get adequate rest and food. Feed your mind first, then maybe it'll churn out something other than eating and sleeping scenes.

Just a thought.

I have about 5 or 6 bathroom scenes in my WIP. What does that say about me? Wait...don't answer that.

:tongue

Nicole

JoNightshade · May 31, 2007

Ziljon said:
Not to change the subject, but I often wonder about characters, particularly in fantasy outdoor journeys, going to the bathroom. How is it done? No one ever goes into it. And what about body odor?

Haha, I just figured that people in fantasy worlds don't actually have bodily functions like this. It is taken care of by... magic!

Kidding. Actually I found myself having to deal with this in another WIP (currently on backburner); my MC is a girl who is trying to pass for a squire, traveling around the countryside. I realized I was going to have to deal with the bathroom issue, so I had the knight (who knows she's a girl) just get up, walk to a tree, and urinate! When she freaks out, he's like, "What? You want people to think you're a guy, you're gonna have to get used to us doing this."

Soccer Mom · May 31, 2007

Well, my MC works for a caterer so.....lots of eating in my book.

Sleeping, waking up, eating, etc.

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