How seriously to take query letter critique

Have you tried looking in the stickies at the top of the SYW section and tried to piece together the bones of what should be in a query letter?

Also I think at the top of this section is a stickie that gives examples of some queries letters that did make it. Orions is there.

Get the bones together - understand what should go in it before you try posting it in SYW again. I understand your frustrations, I've been there myself, but I think you should know what goes in for the type of work you have written before you throw it out for tightening.

efreysson,
All I can say is it took me much time and agony to determine whether it was my query letter that sucked, my writing, or the premise of my novel.
This is always the most difficult part.
The real key is perseverance.
Not quiting.
You can check out queries in the sticky notes.
Good luck!

I recently had my query letter lovingly ripped to shreds by AWers. I, too, had to struggle with how much/how little to explain of the plot, and the fact that some things just raise more questions. It takes time, patience, and chocolate, but I really believe it's worth it.

Good question. My advice would be to not assume every answer you get here is better than your line of thinking. The majority of AW'ers (myself included) have never sold a book to a royalty-paying publisher, so there's no reason to assume the advice we get is legitimate. Over time, though, you'll recognize the names/handles of those people, who, if they say your letter is solid, then that's a very good thing. Here's what I try to get out of query critiques:

1) Remove points of confusion
2) Tighten tighten tighten
3) Make sure your bridging conflict
4) Look for patterns in the responses of AW'ers

rwam said:

Good question. My advice would be to not assume every answer you get here is better than your line of thinking. The majority of AW'ers (myself included) have never sold a book to a royalty-paying publisher, so there's no reason to assume the advice we get is legitimate.

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That's the problem. You'll get tons of advice from the folks on the SYW boards, but very few of them have had any more success than you have, so how do you know the advice is good?

Personally, I've had my query and opening sequence ripped to shreds on SYW, and rewrote both to address what appeared to be the problems. I admit that they both seem much better than they were in the beginning, but no agent has nibbled yet.

In my own very limited experience, the only way you know when a query letter is "good" is when it catches some jaded agent's eye sufficiently to result in a request for sample material. If and when that happens, I'll know I have a "good" query letter.

I also think that the unique problem with the query letter forum, is that unlike any of the other SYW sections, it prompts the critters not only to provide opinion, but to ask questions. 'Why have you included that bit/Why haven't you mentioned so and so/Why is that character significant, and so on and so forth.
It's very easy to end up getting diverted from what you thought was the original task, to be responding to stuff that you feel is irrelevant, which can be very time consuming and frustrating when all you want to do is get that ms posted off.
That's why I said earlier that I think you need to make a really hard effort to make sure you know the relevant parts that need to be included and put up a query just for tightening.
Is it structured OK, do they understand the plot, etc, etc.
I think query letter really does show that you can't please all of the people all of the time ...

The query letter forum definitely works. Time and again, people (myself included) have gone from form rejections to requests for partials/fulls because of the work there. So the fact that the people doing the critiquing aren't always published isn't really relevant.

There will always be critique to give, though. You can put up your final, polished, award-winning published writing, and there would be something that could be critiqued about it. What you have to do is revise it based on the feedback until you're satisfied, send it out there, and see what bites. If you still don't get bites, go back to the drawing board. (Yeah, I'm mixing metaphors or something.)

I recently posted a querry on SYW, and yeah, it got tore to shreds. I didn't really agree with all of it, either.

On the other hand, it was incredibly helpful to see what people not familiar with the book would get from the synopsis. I was provided with clear, insightful responses that will help me to improve not only this querry, but others that I decide to write in the future. And the posters really seemed to want me to succeed; they were there to tear apart the querry, but with honest intent to make it stronger.

I did not post any revisions. I just waited until I got a few responses that I felt pointed out the piece's main weaknesses, then thanked everyone. I intend to rewrite for a while, and then see if I like the results. If I do, I'll go directly to the agents with it. If I still have questions, it'll go back on SYW.


I guess what I'm saying is that I feel your pain! But I agree with DeadlyAccurate: no matter how great your querry, there will always be something that can be critiqued about it. The secret (or so I've seen written by a helpful poster on SYW) is to make your querry as good as you can, but to keep it true to your own voice and writing style. Good Luck!

Keep in mind that first your query letter will get torn to shreds, then your agent will tear your manuscript to shreds, then your editor will tear your revised manuscript to shreds, then reviewers will tear your book to shreds.

It's a tough world out there for a writer!

My life is gonna match my wardrobe ...

Nathan Bransford said:

Keep in mind that first your query letter will get torn to shreds, then your agent will tear your manuscript to shreds, then your editor will tear your revised manuscript to shreds, then reviewers will tear your book to shreds.

It's a tough world out there for a writer!

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::buys a helmet::

efreysson said:

Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate that people are trying to help, and my original letter DID suck. But between the picking at my choice of words, the suggestions of improvements I don't really understand and insistance on further explaining various details of the plot that would take far too much page space, I'm left totally frustrated and despairing at meeting these standards.

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*hugs*

I was just skimming this sub-forum, but your statement of getting caught up in improvements you don't understand got me a bit worried. If you are not quite sure why somebody is suggesting something, definitely ask them for more details! Knowing why somebody is suggesting a change may end up being more helpful than the suggestion itself. If you can understand why things work and don't work, then you will be able to process the helpful deluge of information and really work your query into something that pops and is in your voice.

Understanding the reason behind a thing is far more important than simply knowing the thing.

Good luck with the process!


-Michelle

Hello Nathan, did you get my e-mail? Ken

efreysson said:

Every now and then I've sought help on this site on how to write a better query letter, since judging by the lack of manuscript requests, I desperately need one.
The problem is, even though my rewritten letter had a few months ago been deemed suitable, when I re-post it for evaluation it gets torn to shreds.
Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate that people are trying to help, and my original letter DID suck. But between the picking at my choice of words, the suggestions of improvements I don't really understand and insistance on further explaining various details of the plot that would take far too much page space, I'm left totally frustrated and despairing at meeting these standards.

I hope I'm not whining. I just want to know if spending hours after hours, poet-like, fine-tuning and streamlining every part of the letter is truly what it takes to impress an agent. I hope simply describing an interesting story will do the trick.

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I'm sorry that you're finding query letter hell so unproductive. It's hard sometimes to figure out what will help someone improve.

First thing to remember with any critique is that you have to make the ultimate decisions here. We're offering suggestions -- they may be good ones, they may be bad ones, but that's all they are is suggestions. You need to decide what works and doesn't work for you. With The Next Step, I had two people tell me that I need to include a grandchild for my protagonist to talk to. I agree with them that it makes a more normal story, but it isn't the story that I wanted to write. I realize that lack may kill the story for publication. But I'm not changing it.

Second to understand is that being critiqued is a part of writing. When Equine Liability went to the publisher, with every word lovingly polished to perfection, it came back with a note that she loved it, but it needed a few minor changes. Like a whole freaking rewrite. Three days of me asking my wife how the F--- did she expect me to do that. I then sat down and did it.

One of the things that you can learn from a forum like query letter hell is how to deal with critiques. I can virtually guarantee that an editor will sometime put something down that you don't understand. Somehow you're going to have to figure out what they're talking about, and decide how to deal with it.

One thing to understand is there is no perfect letter. Sometimes some of us will like it and others hate it. Is that confusing to you, the writer? Better believe it, but that's the way the world operates. Look at book reviews and see how some are in complete disagreement with everyone else.

Another thing to remember with query letters is the extremely short amount of time you have to get an agent's attention. Assume that an agent receives 120 query letters a week (Donald Maas probably receives that many a day). Now if an agent spends five minutes looking at each letter, that means 600 minutes or ten hours. Ten hours a week looking at query letters? I don't think so.

I had a job where I reviewed resumes. I averaged over a hundred a week. My goal -- 30 seconds per letter. Based on 120 per week, if I did them at 30 seconds a piece, that was still one hour. I just couldn't figure out how to do it less time, although I tried like hell.

Agents have the same time and number crunch. One of the things that I look at in critiquing a query letter is whether it tells me everything I need to know and makes me want more in those 30 seconds. Does your letter do that (in your opinion)? And to give you an idea how those 30 seconds continue to hold true, how long do you look at a book in the library or bookstore before putting it back? About 30 seconds?

If you don't understand something, keep asking the person to explain it until you understand it, whether in query letter hell or anywhere else in the world. You're not whining (or no more than I would). Query letter writing is hell. I once spent three weeks in a course on resume writing. It was hell. Constant trashing, making every word perfect, et cetera. Best damn resume I ever wrote.

Jim Clark-Dawe

jclarkdaw--
What a terrific response! You hit every major point!
A query letter is only as good as the requests it generates.
Agents need their attention caught and then need to be convinced reading your manuscript would not be a waste of their time.
If your letter is clear to most AWers it may be more clear to agents you query.

Use the same voice that you're using for your novel. Don't be clinical if the voice of your novel is very easy and casual - agents won't understand.

My best query letter used a lot of slang (and even the words 'suck' and 'crap' a few times) and I landed an agent within a few queries.

Go with the voice. Sometimes it's the only thing we unpubbed people have to peddle.

Irysangel said:

Use the same voice that you're using for your novel. Don't be clinical if the voice of your novel is very easy and casual - agents won't understand.

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I think that's good advice, and the same thing applies when writing your synopsis.

Oh, gosh. I'm one of the board elders and I get totally hosed when I put up my query letters. And damn it, I deserve it. Once I get over the initial shock of the statements (that takes about a week), I'm ready to settle down and seperate the good the bad and the ugly. It is touchy for me sometimes; I feel like firing back and letting them know just where to get off. But you know...they have been right every damn time and it has shown in my upped acceptance levels. I'm a good writer, maybe even a great writer--but I can't sell an idea to save my soul and put it in the proper format/perspective.

So...hang in there and use only the salt you need.

Tri

I've also found that being able to critique others' queries at the Crapometer and in SYW (and reading others' critiques on stuff that isn't mine), helps me get more perspective when it comes to writing my own query. Once you get into the practice of dissecting a query almost clinically, you can critique your own with a less jaundiced eye.

I swore I'd never read any of the For Idiots series but I am reading the Complete Idiot's Guide to Getting Published. It is written by an agent and editor of Hyperion Press. It is suggested that in the query we should mention what the competition is, what books are out there that are similar and have already been published. In my admittedly amateur view though, we should spend the bulk of our time working on improving the manuscript rather than query.

janetbellinger said:

It is suggested that in the query we should mention what the competition is, what books are out there that are similar and have already been published. In my admittedly amateur view though, we should spend the bulk of our time working on improving the manuscript rather than query.

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The competition and similar books out there isn't a big deal if the answer is obvious and you're writing to an agent who has a track record in what you're trying to publish. For example, my crime thriller centers on a diabolical but black-humored serial killer, and it's really not productive to spend any time blathering about Thomas Harris etc. The agents I targeted are active in the genre, and don't need to waste their time with it. It turned out that the agents wanted more of a sense of how I differentiated my novel from the rest of what's out there, and that's where I focused.

Trust me, don't short-sheet the query and synopsis. Some agents will automatically read the first few pages of your novel even if they think the query and synopsis aren't promising. But you're getting off to a bad start. And plenty won't look past your synopsis. If your query and synopsis do a poor job of reflecting the actual novel, you're under water right at the outset.

As to the manuscript, probably the best thing at the query stage is to edit and edit, but edit the first twenty or thirty pages twice as much as any other part. These pages determine whether the agent will deem it worthwile to read on, and you need to burnish them to steely perfection.

If agents take the time to point out specific problems - they must think it has promise. These people are BUSY and if you get more than a form letter consider yourself lucky! =)

If everyone says the same thing like "plot twist is strange" or "rhyme is off" This is when rejection can help and you can revise it to perfection. One critisicm is an opinion - Ten is a fact!! If everyone sees the same trouble - it's most likely needing a tweak.

Wow. Great responses. I do agree with using your voice. In fact I just read something to that effect. If I can find it, I'll post it. But, essentially, the agent said that whatever it is that can attract and keep the agent's attention, that is the key element of a query. That, and a way to get ahold of you!