Question about description

Alana Mortensen · May 19, 2007

In my erotic novel, I have refference to a pro-wrestler from the WWE. I s this a no-no or do I need to seek permission to use his name?

The passage reads like this.........
He came to the table, hips swaying slightly. It looked odd because he was built like a professional wrestler. He reminded her of Kane from the WWE, broad chest, evenly matched biceps, tiny waist, powerful looking legs under his tight black jeans. He was confident with an air of arrogance that made her drool.

Any advice onthe name usage would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Alana

Kristin Landon · May 20, 2007

His name may be a trademark. I would avoid it, especially if you can't be sure that most of your audience will be able to instantly envision "Kane from the WWE."

Red Robin · May 20, 2007

Why are you dropping the name Kane? Is this a short cut description? This might not be such a good idea, as many people don't know what Kane looks like, and as time passes, fewer will (unless the Kane is super famous, like Hulk Hogan).

Also, bringing up pro wrestling gives your character a white trash vibe, so make sure that's the vibe you are going for.

He came to the table, hips swaying slightly. It looked odd because he was built like a professional wrestler. He had a broad chest, evenly matched biceps, tiny waist, powerful looking legs under his tight black jeans. He was confident with an air of arrogance that made her drool.

See... you don't need Kane's name at all.

Devil Ledbetter · May 20, 2007

Kristin Landon said:
His name may be a trademark.

Even if it is, that wouldn't matter. There is no rule agaist dropping a trademarked name in a work of fiction. A trademark doesn't mean that no one else can use the word, it just means no one else can apply it to their own product. A character can sip Corona, and she can think someone reminds her of a name-brand celebrity.

Trouble starts when the author slips a dead cockroach into the name-brand beverage, or has the character not only looking like that celeb, but being the celeb -- especially if she has the celeb snort a line of coke or something.

Writing "he reminded her of" isn't a legal problem ... but I'd still avoid it for the excellent reasons already pointed out: it's a cheesy shortcut and an ineffective one at that. She already did an adequate job of describing the guy without the pro-wrestler name-drop, so at this point, the only reason to include it would be if she's trying to add the aforementioned "white-trash vibe" to the drooling female character.

And I think drooling covers that.

maestrowork · May 20, 2007

First, you can refer to celebrities -- that's fair game. "He looked like Tom Cruise. He had Danny Devito's hair."

On the other hand, the problem with something like that is that not everyone knows who Kane is, so your description is lost. Why not just describe what a "Kane" looks like? And if you do, then there's really no reason to mention Kane and have your readers go "who?"

This is just fine, though unoriginal, and describes quite a number of bodybuilders/wrestlers from Hercules to the Rock:

broad chest, evenly matched biceps, tiny waist, powerful looking legs under his tight black jeans

Devil Ledbetter · May 20, 2007

This is just fine, though unoriginal,

Good point. Give the guy a chipped tooth or a chin dimple or something, at least.

JamieFord · May 20, 2007

Didn't Kane wear a mask for a while? The physical description got a little muddy for me what I thought about that part, but that's just me. Like everyone else, I don't think you need the name as a shortcut when you can just describe him outright. Have fun with it...

justpat · May 20, 2007

Celebrities are public domain, thats why paparazzi can take their pictures and print them without getting permission first. And that's also why I never want to be a famous author (who am I kidding?)

Now, about your wrestler. Someone else here mentioned that if the reader didn't know who Kane is, then they will be lost. I'm not sure that is true, because I have no idea who he is, but I do have a general idea how wrestlers look and so I got it. You also go on and describe him further, so that helps, too. And, because you describe further, I don't think this should be classified as a short-cut description, its more a preamble.

The real question you have to ask yourself is, would your MC know who Kane is, and would she compare him with this guy?

Moon Daughter · May 20, 2007

I echo what everyone else is basically saying. I would just take the referrence to Kane out. You have to be aware that not all of your readers are going to know who Kane is.

ChaosTitan · May 20, 2007

Name-dropping a current wrestler also dates your work. Someone reading it ten years from now probably won't know who Kane is/was.

Just saying "pro wrestler" brings a very vivid image, without the specifics of saying "he looked like Randy Savage" or whomever.

kristie911 · May 20, 2007

I don't watch WWE and I'm not really familiar with any of the wrestlers, so using the name Kane actually threw me for a moment because I have no clue what he looks like. But to say he looks like a pro-wrestler works because most of us have at least an idea of how they're built.

Lyxdeslic · May 20, 2007

Hubris is a funny thing. I think we've all used references to icons we either like or dislike, but we're quick to say "oh hell, don't do that."

It's tacky, yes. But if it works for you, and your intended target audience, go right a-hell-the-head and do it. You were only asking if there were any legal-allegations to do so and the answer is no.

Lyx

Sassenach · May 20, 2007

I don't follow wrestling, so unless the wrestler is a "crossover" celeb like The Rock or Hulk Hogan, I'd be unfamiliar with him.

FWIW.", I loathe the use of the word "drool

Moon Daughter · May 20, 2007

I don't necessarily agree that saying "pro wrestler" would give one a sense of how they're built. I am a big fan of wrestling and not all of them look the same. Some are very lean, muscular, or are as big as a horse. Saying a character looks like a pro wrestler could mean many things...IMO.

janetbellinger · May 20, 2007

It would make it more interesting if the
guy did wear a mask.

JamieFord said:
Didn't Kane wear a mask for a while? The physical description got a little muddy for me what I thought about that part, but that's just me. Like everyone else, I don't think you need the name as a shortcut when you can just describe him outright. Have fun with it...

Alana Mortensen · May 20, 2007

ah shit man! most of you know Kane or have seen him... so the descriptin is jusified and stays, although I do agree that description sucks. I think I will change the name to "The Big Red Machine", Kane's nickname.

Jamie,

Your right he did wear a mask. That gives me an idea. To use the mysterious aspect of it.

Alana

ps
Kane was in the movie "See No Evil, Hear No Evil" that came out last year. He was the villain. Thank you all so much. Toodles.

Moon Daughter · May 20, 2007

IMO, Kane does not have a tiny waist.

And just to add in, more people probably know Kane as Kane rather than by his nickname.

JanDarby · May 20, 2007

Just FWIW, I haven't ever seen or heard of Kane.

Beyond that, there's a problem in using celebrities, in that not all of us react the same to them. If you're using him as a place-holder for "guy who's hot," and the reader happens to find skinny, geeky guys hot, instead of big, wrestler guys, it's not going to work for that reader.

It's not just Kane or wrestlers, either; it's all celebrities. If you use someone I do recognize, and I happen not to find him attractive, then the reference is going to backfire, b/c I'll be thinking, "Ick. How in the world could the protagonist find him attractive?"

There's also, as mentioned before, the problem with dating your work. Worst case scenario: OJ. Shortly before the so-called trial of the century, there was at least one book in production where the author used a reference to OJ to mean "a positive role model from the sports arena." By the time it went to print, that reference certainly didn't mean the same thing.

JD

Red Robin · May 20, 2007

ah shit man! most of you know Kane or have seen him... so the descriptin is jusified and stays, although I do agree that description sucks. I think I will change the name to "The Big Red Machine", Kane's nickname.

That's troubling. Turning down critiques can be justified, but you are telling us, your surrogate readers, what we know and like.

Are you writing a Pro-Wrestling erotic romance? If so I'll depart from the conversation, because I have no knowledge in that sub genre.

Alana Mortensen · May 20, 2007

It is only to say the Mc's love looks like Kane in that he is tall and does not look like he weighs as much as is said. He is muscular with powerful legs and to her that is a drool factor.

Yes I have watched wrestling, though I am not a fan, after all it is fake. Yes I watch Smackdown, only to see Edge, Kane and The Undertaker, Kane's very big brother. Ok so the boys are appealing physically. Sue me.

Alana

Alana Mortensen · May 20, 2007

Robin,

my question was only to do with the concern of dropping the name. But out of all this I got some good ideas and confirmed my decision to change the name to his nickname.

Alana

Question about description

Alana Mortensen

Kristin Landon

Red Robin

Veni Vidi Scripsi

Devil Ledbetter

Come on you stranger, you legend,

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

Devil Ledbetter

Come on you stranger, you legend,

JamieFord

giving resonant directions

justpat

QueryTracker

Moon Daughter

ChaosTitan

Around

kristie911

Happy to be here

Lyxdeslic

Laughing every time I choke.

Sassenach

5 W's & an H

Moon Daughter

janetbellinger

Alana Mortensen

Moon Daughter

JanDarby

Red Robin

Veni Vidi Scripsi

Alana Mortensen

Alana Mortensen