Young Characters

Chasing the Horizon · May 18, 2007

In the beginning of my series I have a large number of characters under age eighteen. On my world some of the countries have much younger ages at which they consider people to be 'adults'. To me, it would be unrealistic to create a fantasy world based on arbitrary customs of the United States.

What I'm wondering is how publishers look at having characters in the 14-18 year old range starring in a very adult series (some characters are older too). I know I've read books with young characters in the fantasy and sci-fi genres, but they weren't published recently, and most weren't as graphic with sex and violence as my books.

This isn't something I'm likely to compromise on, and I just want to know if I should expect problems (or rejections based on it) from agents and publishers.

JBI · May 18, 2007

In medieval times You see men getting married around 16, and women 13-14ish. Of course, if you go on Latin custom, women get married at 12. Thereby, people were already having sexual relations at a young age, and there was no problem with that.

Backward Masking · May 18, 2007

I'd just be careful on how you go about it. This is especially in regard to putting those underaged characters into either a sexual or violent situation.

alaskamatt17 · May 18, 2007

Read George R. R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire books. He spares nothing when it comes to graphic sex and violence, and there are plenty of children in those books.

On another note, everything is important. He does not randomly throw children in harm's way for the heck of it--it has to serve a purpose in the story.

Pthom · May 19, 2007

In one of my stories, humans are incapable of reproduction by "normal" means (ie: no pregnancies). Offspring are created in the lab (in vitro). There is also a mandatory age limit of 50 years. Sex has become recreation, even competetive. But it's allowed only to certain segments of the population. Privileged members of society may "mate" as soon as it is physically possible. Those not allowed to, however, are punished by being "recycled."

In my story, there are no scenes where youngsters participate in sex. But I leave open the possibility that they may observe it -- or turn in to the authorities, those not permitted.

We'll see if it ever gets published.

Maprilynne · May 19, 2007

I had a 16 year old who turned seventeen and it was important to the story that she be young. However, my agent suggested that I make her 17 turning 18, even though she would be "old enough" in my world because then readers will feel like her adult actions are justified and editors won't be tempted to confuse it for a YA novel. That one year made a difference and I was glad I took her suggestion.

jpsorrow · May 21, 2007

My own novels began when the main character was 14 and the first ended when she was 17. There's definitely violence and sex in the novels although there's nothing I would rate as "graphic". But it's there, and my editor and agent did not have a problem with it. As others have said, if the violence and sex you have is important to the story, and isn't just gratuitous, then I don't think the editors will care. It depends on the target audience as well. If you're shooting for a YA market, then you're going to receive some resistance. If not, then you should be fine. I wasn't going for a YA market with my books.

glutton · May 21, 2007

My gal Rose was 15 in her first book, and killed 100+ enemy soldiers in one day. She also saw plenty of rape and innocent-slaughtering by bad guys during her stint as a mercenary, though she didn't exactly stand by and let it happen (she started butchering those SOB's once she managed to gather her resolve to do so). As for sex, it's not graphic but she loses her virginity at 16, which isn't that early from my viewpoint... Also, she'd been beating up bullies (and monsters

) at least since the age of eight, and possibly earlier.

Then again, she is a *drumroll* EPIC HEROINE, so your mileage may vary.

JBI · May 21, 2007

glutton said:
My gal Rose was 15 in her first book, and killed 100+ enemy soldiers in one day. She also saw plenty of rape and innocent-slaughtering by bad guys during her stint as a mercenary, though she didn't exactly stand by and let it happen (she started butchering those SOB's once she managed to gather her resolve to do so). As for sex, it's not graphic but she loses her virginity at 16, which isn't that early from my viewpoint... Also, she'd been beating up bullies (and monsters ) at least since the age of eight, and possibly earlier.

Then again, she is a *drumroll* EPIC HEROINE, so your mileage may vary.

Sounds like a female Conan.

glutton · May 21, 2007

Kinda, except for the personality; she doesn't have half the assertiveness/confidence/bravado/manly bluster of a Conan. She's more "soft spoken, hard hitting".

On this same topic, anybody read Mary Gentle's Book of Ash? At the beginning of the book, at the age of 8 (I think, don't remember for sure), the heroine gets raped, then KILLS THE GUYS WHO DID IT!!! Fucking HARDCORE!

I think it has a lot to do with the overall flavor of your story. If it's supposed to be HARDCORE! no problem. If it's supposed to be a family-friendly high fantasy, you might want to reconsider that graphic miscarriage scene (something also found in Book of Ash, as well as one of the later Rose novels ironically, I did write it before I read BoA).

ink wench · May 21, 2007

Interesting issue that relates to my WIP. My MC is a 16 yo prostitute about to get caught up in a murder. I'm sure there will be sex and violence down the road, but I doubt it will be graphic. In the first novel I wrote, the MC aged from 11 to 17 throughout the story (on-stage at 11, 13, and 16-17). She grew up in a whorehouse and hung out with pirates and thugs, and I tried not to make anything too graphic. Given the settings for both of these stories though, the age works. I think. You need to be true to the setting and the world. Throughout history, kids were like adults a lot sooner than they are in our time.

MattW · May 21, 2007

Generally I'm done with children and adolescent characters, except in a very minor role.

There's advantages to using them, but I find that the stories that interest me are about adults, with adult themes. Not saying that books with kids aren't serious, but I can't help associate young protagonists with some epic story where they come into their rightful destiny. No thanks - I'll take grown ups who make their own destiny to drive the story, and aren't naive to the way the world works to provide conflict.

glutton · May 21, 2007

Depending on individual experience, a teenage character can be much more "experienced" in certain ways, than the average adult.

MattW · May 21, 2007

glutton said:
Depending on individual experience, a teenage character can be much more "experienced" in certain ways, than the average adult.

But that certainly is the exception.

A slave or whore or urchin I can understand having some depth, but I've had enough spoiled children of nobles, or fresh off the farm objects of prophecy.

Translating to a modern era, I know which group I would rather be around for a good story. Maybe not shiny happy and safe, but undoubtedly interesting.

glutton · May 21, 2007

I completely depends. I've written protagonists ranging in age from 8 to mid-40's, so I'm not biased against more mature characters. But it has a lot, and I mean a LOT, to do with the background of the individual. A young character raised in a harsher environment (like any number of fantasy protags, you know) will, by their teens, likely have dealt with more serious hardships than say, the average middle-class American adult. For that matter, some modern urban teens could say the same. You know, the "While you were worrying about your college GPA, I was working two menial jobs to feed my siblings," kind of thing?

MDSchafer · May 21, 2007

The age of the characters don't have much to do on whether editors and agents look whether a book is a young adult or a mainstream fantasy/sci-fi book. It has more to do with your narrative voice, subject matter and level of graphic events.

I think coming of age stories are an long established tradition of fantasy, some of them are YA, others are not. Some like Harry Potter cross the lines. Its all in the execution.

eliflauta · May 21, 2007

Well, does the age actually affect the character? If it's not, then you can fudge it by being vague...for instance, call the protagonist a "teen" without specifying anything between 13 and 19. If it's a made-up world, you can set your own rules about how long they go to school, when they officially become an "adult", what limits and duties each age group has, etc. When using a more realistic or common type of world, this is more difficult, but still do-able; after all, it's an original creation, so why not punch a hole in the vision of a certain stereotype that the reader could be prone to thinking up? For example, even if the world seems very like the one we live in, add something new; a new type of plant is an easy one. It doesn't make you rethink any of the plot, but it throws a wrench into the reader's perception. They can't truly think that it's the real world if there's a new thing in it, thus they become open to even more new ideas.

Zoombie · May 21, 2007

I have two 17 year olds as my main characters. One is the son of a diplomat, but is generally a "nice guy". He has a job, he has freinds, and he's bummed that his dad is never home. The other is a cybernetically enanched biological robot with "bunny ears" style atenna sticking out of her head. They're best freinds!

And yeah, the story has lots of running, being chased by a giant space lizard, blood splatters, a gunrunner, and some tentative sexual exploration on the parts of the MC's.

Chasing the Horizon · May 21, 2007

glutton said:
Depending on individual experience, a teenage character can be much more "experienced" in certain ways, than the average adult.

Absolutely true. I don't have characters of any age who've had 'normal' or easy lives. One of my MCs, who's fifteen when the story starts, was sold into slavery at the age of six and married by her master at the age of thirteen. For most of the time she was in slavery she was abused. Obviously, she doesn't behave like a normal fifteen-year-old.

My main concern is simply that editors will object to the fact that I have fully described sex scenes involving a fifteen-year-old (IMO, fifteen is very far from being a child. In fact, I believe there's still a state or two left where fifteen-year-olds can get married with their parents permission)

alaskamatt17 · May 22, 2007

Anybody read Ender's Game?

alaskamatt17 · May 22, 2007

I forgot--I have my own children-in-the-midst-of-mayhem story. In Orion's Key, two of the major characters are only four-and-a-half years old. By the end of the story (one year after it begins), they have witnessed cannibalism, become complicit in treason, and committed murder. They are not human, but in relative ages it would be equivalent to 16-17 year-olds committing the same acts.

Pthom · May 22, 2007

alaskamatt17 said:
Anybody read Ender's Game?

Or Vinge's A Fire Upon The Deep? Here, one of the main POV characters is a child.

polleekin · May 22, 2007

MattW said:
But that certainly is the exception.

A slave or whore or urchin I can understand having some depth, but I've had enough spoiled children of nobles, or fresh off the farm objects of prophecy.

Hm, while I can appreciate being tired of propechy-ridden farm boys, I've seen the street urchin thing done quite a lot as well, with varying degrees of success.

But, really, you can't judge the depth of a character based on their situation.

alaskamatt17 · May 23, 2007

Pthom said:
Or Vinge's A Fire Upon The Deep? Here, one of the main POV characters is a child.

Neal Stephenson's Snow Crash features a 15-year-old dealing with the Mafia, skateboarding on interstates, buying drugs, and infiltrating cults.

Anne Lyle · May 27, 2007

I second the above - if it's graphic, pitch it as adult fiction, not YA. If the agent/publisher disagrees, he'll put it where he thinks he can sell it.

Young characters are a staple of fantasy - Fitz is only 6 at the beginning of Robin Hobb's "Assassin" trilogy, and in Lynn Flewelling's "Tamir" trilogy, the story begins before Tobin is born and the first volume ends when he/she hits puberty. Both were published relatively recently (1995 and 2001 respectively). I believe Anne Bishop's "Black Jewels" series has a 12-year-old protagonist and lots of graphic (and kinky) sex, but they're not to my taste so I can't comment further.

Most agents and publishers will reject a story that pushes the wrong buttons for them, but if it's well-written, someone somewhere with differing tastes will probably buy it...

Young Characters

Chasing the Horizon

Blowing in the Wind

JBI

Backward Masking

Why so serious?

alaskamatt17

Pthom

Word butcher

Maprilynne

Author Waiting in the Wings

jpsorrow

glutton

JBI

glutton

ink wench

ray of motherf#%&ing sunshine

MattW

Company Man

glutton

MattW

Company Man

glutton

MDSchafer

eliflauta

Zoombie

Dragon of the Multiverse

Chasing the Horizon

Blowing in the Wind

alaskamatt17

alaskamatt17

Pthom

Word butcher

polleekin

alaskamatt17

Anne Lyle

Fantastic historian