a note from a slush pile reader

Always a good point and I totally agree with you. I've worked a little as a reader and I would read till I got bored then throw it out. And I would throw things out for all the regular reasons - wrong format, nothing happening in the first ten pages, voice over, breaking the fourth wall, lack of readable english -- but as much as I and other people tell burgeoning screenwriters this is the case, many still seem convinced that they can do what they want and we'll sense how brilliant their script is and reading the whole thing!

But yeah, reading is grueling. I feel for you =)

Yeah, we really feel for you guys! Group hug!



Thanks for the good advice.

-Derek

aertep said:

If the first ten and last ten are great (not good, but great), go back and start reading again from page eleven...until the script lets you down.
If the script never lets you down--never--it's a keeper.

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Thanks, Petrea!

Now I'm wondering if any readers of novel submissions do the same thing. (I have a beta reader--a former journalist--who confessed to this recently. She was telling me she liked the ending, and I was surprised that she had read it so quickly. So she admitted that she reads the last chapter first.)

A good point. After all it makes sense: if the script doesn't grip you, the film wouldn't either.
Since I was discussing Clerks in the other thread, a story about the first screening comes to mind.
Harvey Weinstein walked out of the first screening, as it happens whichever colleague he was with didn't. That colleague had to convince Weinstein to watch it again and not leave until he heard '37'. If he wanted to leave after that, he could. Obviously, once he reached that point he didn't leave and ended up buying the thing.

My point is, when you submit a script, you can't tell the agent to 'bear with the first ten pages, the good stuff starts on page 12.'
Hook 'em and keep reeling.

Great advice,Petrea.
I read this in Syd Fields book,Screenplay.
He stated that, the first ten pages, are crucial,along with the final ten.
He strongly emphasised this.
Since reading this, I have always timed films,noting at what point my interest begins to wane.
He says, you need to set up the story within the first
ten pages.
Though, I think fithteen pages is sometimes needed.
Some films are set up,within the first few pages.
Eg: Lord of the Rings ,comes to mind.
Good to hear your advice on what's expected,when submitting Scripts.
Your right though.
When I have read certain scripts from successful films,I couldn't stop reading.
Even films, I had not seen before.
Once I was hooked,I couldn't stop.
They just had that something, which kept my interest,and the pages turning.
Take care .
Daniel

A very good post,

thank you for putting it up.

I would like some clarification / more details about this comment though.

"But...not enough going on."

You mean story right? That the story lacks substance, depth, staying power, something of that nature.

Because I know quite a few writers that will read that and then try to add FLUFF to beef up the story. Don't want that.

I read this in Syd Fields book,Screenplay.
He stated that, the first ten pages, are crucial,along with the final ten.

Click to expand...

going back to adaptation - the non-writing twin followed the advice of robert mckee who said in his seminar -- people only remember the ending and getting his first script sold and made -- but it was the flick itself that turned into a wacked final 10 minutes that was totally went the total opposite surprising most and making most people say, huh?!

I don't remember the exact quote, but George Lucas said something like if you have a good first 10 minutes and a good last 20 minutes then audiences will forgive (and forget) everything in between.

Thanks for the advice. I think I might actually have two scripts that would pass at this point. I am having trouble finding the right home though.

Awesome thread, Petrea! Thanks!

Aertep says,

"In a way, scripter1, I mean events. Something has to happen to your MC that throws him or her, big-time, into action, therefore throwing us (audience), into the story. Mamet says story is about your hero trying to put his disordered world back into order, and I think that's a good way to look at it. So if we're going to see the world in order, fine, but it's got to be thrust into disorder (perhaps by an event?) in the first ten pages. Or sooner.

Another way to look at it is, the hero has to want something badly. (Putting his/her world back in order, maybe.)"

I'll accept EVENTS as something that a script needs going on.

I would describe them as the various challenges that the characters face that bring about change. Different EVENTS/SITUATIONS will force a character to face a flaw or use a trait/skill in order to advance towards the goal.

As writers we need to make sure that we are challenging our characters.

Bill Martell has a great article about this, I think it's called something like The Worse that COULD happen. He uses the example of Indiana Jones and the lost Ark. And ANY Indy movie is a perfect example of this.

Jones pulls the idol of the scale. The sand isn't correct and darts fly, then the boulder comes, then his assistant takes the idol and leaves him stranded. SO he jumps, doesn't quite make it, then that wall slams down, AND THEN finally, when he's safe, there is the evil guy waiting to take the idol.

In almost EVERY sequence the story follows that pattern, things start out bad and then gradually get really, really bad.

AND what is interesting to note is that that whole sequence of events could be writen out in about half a page, or less.
(I don't know how Lucas and Spielburg wrote it but I would frag it and action stack it.)

So, depending on the character's arc we need to develop these sequences of events so that the Protag is constantly challenged.

Careful now, don't go OVERBOARD.
TOO Much going on and the story will lose believablity.

Great point of view. Thanks for the insight.

That said, I notice the same thing in the SYW forum. I see where the story fails, so why can't I see that in my own?

Man, we are such narcissitic jerks.

scripter1 said:

(I don't know how Lucas and Spielburg wrote it but I would frag it and action stack it.)

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That Lawrence Kasdan guy needs to get his act together.
http://www.scifiscripts.com/scripts/Indiana1.txt

-Derek

Hi,

That was very cool of you to show us an insiders glimpse of how the business works. I don't write scripts and yet, I found your message very stimulating and insightful.

Thanks for sharing,

Spooky

emphasis

The thing is, the stakes have to mean the world to the characters or they won't mean anything to us.

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Excellent sentence.

Axe

Slush

I've read a lot of novel slush, and I simply read straight through until something stops me from reading. But many readers do flip back and read the end. No two slush readers perform the job in the same manner all the way through, but however the overall reading is done, if the opening doesn't grab a reader, the novel stands no chance.

For me, the difference between a novel and a script is that I find almost all scripts, even the good ones, boring. I think it takes a different talent to read scripts. You have to see past the words on the page to the movie that will be made from these words. Not everyone can do this, and many good scripts get rejected because of it.

no voice overs at all?

Is that really an automatic rejection, even if the script is good?

I mean a lot of movies these days start with a voice over.

aertep said:

In a way, scripter1, I mean events. Something has to happen to your MC that throws him or her, big-time, into action, therefore throwing us (audience), into the story. Mamet says story is about your hero trying to put his disordered world back into order, and I think that's a good way to look at it. So if we're going to see the world in order, fine, but it's got to be thrust into disorder (perhaps by an event?) in the first ten pages. Or sooner.
Another way to look at it is, the hero has to want something badly. (Putting his/her world back in order, maybe.)

Click to expand...

I'm a bit confused, because I thought that the event that throws him or her, big-time, into action, therefore throwing us (audience), into the story was the plot point at the end of ACT 1, around page thirty?

Thanks for the clarification, Petrea.