Question from a Newbie

Jedi Dad said:

Hi All,

Out of my love for Star Wars I have written a young adult fiction story based on an original character I created, obviously based on the ideas created by George Lucas.

My question, do I need to obtain copyright permissions before I shop the manuscript, or is that something that a literary agent would help with when taking the book to a publisher?

Thanks for your time.

Click to expand...

You need permission if you've set the character in the Star Wars universe. And an agent won't help. Neither will trying to get permission, most likely. Such books are almost always assigned to known writers.

Now, if the character is not set in the Star Wars universe, and you just got the idea for a story and a character based on something you saw or read in Star Wars, you may well be fine.

I am curious to what would happen if you tried to run the story buy the Lucas Inc. people, they often publish their own stuff or contract it through Tor. Worth a try. I know there have been a few unknowns who have broken into that genre by finding a name and getting read. As always though I think the best thing is to just try everything within the realm of possibility. . . that is, where ever the force leads you.

WerenCole said:

I am curious to what would happen if you tried to run the story buy the Lucas Inc. people, they often publish their own stuff or contract it through Tor. Worth a try. I know there have been a few unknowns who have broken into that genre by finding a name and getting read. As always though I think the best thing is to just try everything within the realm of possibility. . . that is, where ever the force leads you.

Click to expand...

It never hurts to try, but Star Wars novels are assigned, and a bible comes along with the assignments. You can't just write any novel you wish, with any characters you wish. All this is dictated by Lucas.

It still wouldn't hurt to query, James. All those other writers got the assignment somehow. If you don't ask/submit/try, nothing will ever happen, will it. Don't be such a spoilsport.

Sheesh, I forgot to welcome Jedi Dad.

sassandgroove said:

It still wouldn't hurt to query, James. All those other writers got the assignment somehow. If you don't ask/submit/try, nothing will ever happen, will it. Don't be such a spoilsport.

Sheesh, I forgot to welcome Jedi Dad.

Click to expand...

Yes, but they got the assignments by being already published novelists. It's a case of "Don't call us, we'll call you." Once you're already published, have a name, and are already writing things we really like.

Some things are realistic, some are not. I won't say this is impossible, but it's as close to impossible as any novel project can be.

Some things you need to get out of your system while learning to write, and sometimes using another person's universe is one of them. Realistically, however, trying to get such a novel published is pretty much impossible. Even if it's a good novel, odds are you've violated the bible, the restrictions Lucas places on writers.

If you want to write something like Star Wars or Star Trek, you first need to prove you can write and sell novels on your own. Then you'll get a crack at these novels.

As I say, nothing is completely impossible, but this isn't at all realistic. Best by far to put all this time and energy into writing an original novel of your own creation.

Realistic? Probably not but "hey, why not?" I say you keep writing and maybe you will find a little success, then at that point you can also say "I did write this book a while ago, think there is a place for it?"


Though, maybe the next book should not be Star Wars exclusive. . . perhaps.

Another possible venue is *gasp* fan fiction. You don't get paid, but you will get feedback. Most people tell me a first novel rarely gets published.

Certainly my first novel, as originally written, even with what little I know now (and I freely admit, I don't know much), I wouldn't expect to get it published. I'm on my third re-write of it and think it's getting better with each re-write. I still believe in the story because everyone who has looked likes the concept. I just need to keep working on touching it up.

Oh, and like you, I was inspired by another series (Star Trek in my case) but I set the story in my own universe and deliberately changed certain things (for instance, I have a light drive which travels through wormholes instead of warp drive).

I also realized when I started working on it that I could imagine a different world than the classic Enterprise (though I realized after some people read it that I never described the bridge of my ship because I always pictured the Enterprise. I finally redid the design of the bridge in the third re-write, making it different from the Enterprise. This is a danger when you write a story inspired by someone else's work -- even if it's your original world, you end up borrowing an awful lot and have to make sure you aren't in essence writing someone else's characters -- for instance, I had to make a conscious effort not to write the first officer of my ship as Mr. Spock with a different name.).

In essence, the story is the question of what's life like on the ships that aren't the "pride of the fleet" combined with a coming of age story (it's MG fiction).

Anyway, best of luck with it.

If you honestly believe in your story and you feel it's good, a fourth option (besides the
"dump it and move on", "give it a shot, what the hell" or "fan fiction" route) is to polish it to a glow, make it the best you can possibly make it, then, once you're really happy, put it aside, write something else, get published, get a name and then try to pitch the story as a published author.

Oh, and my apologies in advance if I've rambled too much about my own work. I find I do it sometimes, but I hope I had something helpful to offer.

Eric

Jamesaritchie said:

Yes, but they got the assignments by being already published novelists. It's a case of "Don't call us, we'll call you." Once you're already published, have a name, and are already writing things we really like.

Some things are realistic, some are not. I won't say this is impossible, but it's as close to impossible as any novel project can be.

Some things you need to get out of your system while learning to write, and sometimes using another person's universe is one of them. Realistically, however, trying to get such a novel published is pretty much impossible. Even if it's a good novel, odds are you've violated the bible, the restrictions Lucas places on writers.

If you want to write something like Star Wars or Star Trek, you first need to prove you can write and sell novels on your own. Then you'll get a crack at these novels.

As I say, nothing is completely impossible, but this isn't at all realistic. Best by far to put all this time and energy into writing an original novel of your own creation.

Click to expand...

But that doesn't mean someone shouldn't write something set in a series like Starwars, even if just for fun. FOr one thing, writing in a set universe is WRITING and is LEARNING. And who knows, after learning from that experience, the next book, set in a universe of the author's own making will be publishable becuase of the experience. THen, they can shop the first one around. I agree with what you are saying James, just not in the negative tone in which you frame it. Your experience and opinions are valid, but that doesn't make you the end all authority to everything writing.

eric11210 said:

Another possible venue is *gasp* fan fiction. You don't get paid, but you will get feedback. Most people tell me a first novel rarely gets published.

Click to expand...

Excellent post, Eric. I had a friend that wrote a lot of fan fiction when she was in high school. She was embarrassed by it for a while when she was in college, but I told her it was great, that she was WRITING and that it was a good way to learn and to practice. And, she had fans; a following. I think that was good for her, to know that what she was writing rang true with other people. Now, she writes her own things and I beleive her writing is better for the fan fic. I was also impressed she was writing that much in high school. I wrote in spurts. I also had 'fan fiction,' but it was in my head.

Star Wars

You can learn a lot more, and a lot faster, by writing something set in your own universe, using your own characters, and the feedback you get on it will be far, far more realistic.

Now you are just missing the point.

Jamesaritchie said:

You can learn a lot more, and a lot faster, by writing something set in your own universe, using your own characters, and the feedback you get on it will be far, far more realistic.

Click to expand...

First of all I don't just mean Star Wars. Neither did Eric. And again, just becuase you have had some success as a writer doesn't make you the end all authority on all things writing. How do you know how much a writer can or can't learn from attempting to write in another author's style or universe. I don't mean to do it throughout your writing life, just as a novice. It is a learning tool. Different people have different learning styles. What works for you may not work for someone else.

For a novice writer, which I know you are not, so you may have forgotten, writing in a style/genre/universe that the writer has read can help a writer learn the mechanics of story telling. It is like disecting a frog. Why else would Uncle Jim say to type a chapter from a favorite book? Becuase it slows the writer down and allows him to see what the author of the work was doing, how they told thier story. Writing in the same style, or in the same universe, or with the same characters, is a similar excercise. The writer has to break down the original story(ies) to see how it works to make his own writing work. I am not saying to keep doing it, but it can be a useful learning tool. And, i think, not what Jedi Dad meant.


Poor Jedi Dad, I think he's probably rolling his eyes right how as this thread has been hi-jacked.

Sorry but...

copying is neither creative nor imaginative nor is it original. To be a published writer you need to learn to be all three and you learn how to be creative, imaginative, and original by writing your own stuff. Starting from scratch and building a story using your own ingredients is the best use of your writing time.

JR's first answer is the one you need, JD. If anyone can sniff 'Star Wars' in your work then you'll cop it.

pdr, you are missing the point as well. I am not saying to do this all the time, but it can and is a learning tool.

Say it with me now, LEARNING TOOL.

DId you not read what I said? Don't do it all the time or as a crutch, but just writing a short story in a universe or in a style can help you see how and why that universe or style works.

Not to mention this is completely off topic from Jedi Dad's post. He just likened his work to Star Wars, probably as short hand, rather than going into a long description that his work is a 'space opera set in a universe with many planets and sentient beings and a dictator type leader ruling with an iron fist though his aprentice.' or 'space opera with a hero's journey.' He could just say, 'similar to Star Wars.' and even non sci-fi fans would know what he meant. SHeesh. Get over yourselves already.

Don't take my word for it either. Take Uncle Jim's.

Now for that last time. I am not saying to copy as a matter of habit, just to see how and why a story works, both by re-typing a chapter of a fave book (per Uncle Jim.) and by making up your own story in that style or with those characters or with your own characters in a set universe. Just as a learning tool.

And I am saying to be an optimist. If you have a stellar idea that would work in a series, write it, even if just a query and a few chapters. Write some other stellar work, get published, then shop the other around. Think positive, don't just assume you can't, because can't never did anyting.

Note to James, there is a difference between being realistic and negative. It is realistic to know that it is unlikely that one could get an establised series book deal out of the starting block, it is negative to not even try.

To a certain extent, I agree with sassandgroove that fanfiction can be a good introduction to writing (in that it teaches you about maintaining characterisation and setting and developing plot structure). However the key component to fiction is originality and if you're playing in someone else's universe then you're not working out how to develop your own worlds with their own logic and their own characters.

I started off writing fanfic and it gave me a lot of confidence and taught me a lot of the basics, but I've found that working on my own novel has thrown up a lot of issues that fanfic never prepared me for - not least trying to come up with an idea that doesn't automatically remind me of my previous fandom. My concern is that even if you adapt a fanfic to strip out the underlying elements and keep it your own, you're still producing something that's essentially derivative and speaking personally, I know that I wouldn't find that satisfying (although I'm not bashing anyone who disagrees).

MM

If I am not mistaken, isn't Battleship Galactica relatively popular? Star Gate? There is no reason to just put a story "in your own universe" for the sake of reality, ideas are like cooking to a certain extent. There are very few new recipes. Just take what your idea, make it your own and Write Well. If it takes a couple borrowed universes to get your voice in the mean time then so be it.

Now everyone thinks I am gung ho about this, and I just didn't think the idea should be dismissed out of hand.

Please let's have yet another fanfiction rocks/fanfiction sux thread.

It comes down to this. Star Wars keeps tight control of there stuff. Asking permission is possible but probably won't work and will attract their attention making thm scrutinise you very closely if you choose to try and make the tale generic (not obviously derivative).

Ergo you might to better to just make it generic right away. Plenty of stuff out there is clearly Star Wars and other universe inspired, but they change all the names and added enough new stuff not to violate anyone's copyright/trademark etc.

Well, Jedi Dad gets it anyway.

Veinglory, I didn't know there was a fan fiction thread, I don't get out much. I just thought JD's idea shouldn't be dismissed out of hand. Like he said, he had to get it out. Even if it sits in a drawer, it is still valid.

But...

it would have been a better learning tool if the story had original.

pdr said:

it would have been a better learning tool if the story had original.

Click to expand...

Fanfiction may not be very helpful in some regards, but with things like character creation and world-building out of the way, it can help an author focus on plotting. It's a lot easier to get better at something when you focus on it, instead of doing multiple things at the same time. You might be using part of someone's world in fanfiction, but it's not as uncreative has simple copying.

Writing your own material can be argued to be better in teaching situations, but it's also a lot harder. The love someone has for a certain universe can be useful to get them into writing and I'm living proof.

If I hadn't started out writing fanfiction and learning from the mistakes I made then, I wouldn't ever have dreamt about writing anything else.