Help me come up with something more believable

[Southern_girl29]

I just got my book back from my first beta reader. He did an awesome job with it. One of his main points was that something wasn't believable. I need help coming up with a way to make it more believable.

In my book, my MC is a 14-year-old girl. She's always had psychic tendencies, but she starts having visions of her mother being killed. Her father is out of the picture, and her mother won't talk about him. After she has a particularly scary vision, her mother decides to call him, because he is a psychic, too, and can help the MC learn how to control and process the visions. He hasn't been in her life for two reasons. One is that the mother doesn't want him to be there because he helps the police using his psychic powers. She told him to stay away unless he gave up working with the police. He wasn't willing to do that, so he stayed away until the MC's mother called him.

Is this believable? Does it make the dad too big of a jerk? I don't want him to be a jerk, just very committed to what he does. How would you go about fixing it?

[Shady Lane]

Hmm....I'm a little confused why it made the mom so mad that Dad worked with the police. Is she anti-police? Worried he would get hurt?

Why is this job so important to him?

If these questions are answered, I don't see it as a problem.

[jdparadise]

I just got my book back from my first beta reader. He did an awesome job with it. One of his main points was that something wasn't believable. I need help coming up with a way to make it more believable.

In my book, my MC is a 14-year-old girl. She's always had psychic tendencies, but she starts having visions of her mother being killed. Her father is out of the picture, and her mother won't talk about him. After she has a particularly scary vision, her mother decides to call him, because he is a psychic, too, and can help the MC learn how to control and process the visions. He hasn't been in her life for two reasons. One is that the mother doesn't want him to be there because he helps the police using his psychic powers. She told him to stay away unless he gave up working with the police. He wasn't willing to do that, so he stayed away until the MC's mother called him.

Is this believable? Does it make the dad too big of a jerk? I don't want him to be a jerk, just very committed to what he does. How would you go about fixing it?

Give him a reason for not quitting.

Say, his brother was killed, and he helped the police find his brother's body, and the idea that he could help others in the same way was too strong for him to resist.

Or he thinks that the psychicness is a divine gift and to turn it away would be against God's will.

Or he helped free someone who was falsely accused, and he made so much money doing it that he sees it as the best job he could possibly have.

Or something else...

...but giving him a reason for putting the Job first will help the reader not think he's run out on his family for no reason.

[Penguin Queen]

I dont really get the police thing either. Could they just be estranged, like parents often are? Or as Shady Lane said, explain the mother's strong feelings against the police work.
Or maybe they had a big falling out, he left, moved away, made a clean break, they lost touch... and maybe you could use the daughter's psychic powers to inadvertendly help the mother trace him, by seeing him somewhere by a landmark so that the mother knows in which city he lives & then finds him through the phone book?

Um. Just an idea.

[Cathy C]

I think would lend believability if the father visits, but the girl has no idea he does psychic stuff. If it's only on weekends, or if Dad lives in a big city while they live in a small town, she could only see him on holidays. If Mom cautioned Dad NOT to discuss his work, he wouldn't, and Mom could also warn daughter not to tell Dad any "creepy" stuff, and she wouldn't for fear of Dad not wanting her to visit anymore.

Secrets among split families are totally believable. You could even have the girl find out about Dad on television or some such and decide to go to him without telling Mom after something like America's Most Wanted featured his talents.

That would not only make Dad not a jerk, it would make the MC pro-active. :)

[MissAimee]

I'm so with you guys.. To me that doesn't make sense that her mom wont let him see her because he works for the police.. Either write something that he as done, to make her mother so mad at him or something the police did to her..

[MidnightMuse]

I could be misunderstanding this whole thing, so ignore me if I am - but to me this makes the Mother the complete a-hole in the picture.

Working with the police makes him an unfit father? Does that make actual police unfit fathers, too?

That's the bit that bothers me. Again, could be missing something obvious here, so carry on :)

[Moon Daughter]

I agree that the father needs some sort of strong motive for not wanting to quit working with the police. You have to think about what an "average" father would do. Would he rather work with the police or see his daughter and wife? I think most people would choose family, so what extraordinary reason is there for him to choose the police?

I really like the premise of the story though. It's probably something I'd read, but your beta reader is correct about the that part not being believable.

[josephwise]

Legally, she can't keep him away from his daughter based on his job. If he wants to see her, he can get visitation, and the mother can't do anything about it.

So, I'm going to have to assume that the nature of his police-work actually puts his daughter in danger? In which case, the mother would have good reason to want him to stay away, and he would have good reason to agree to do so.

But that still leaves your initial question. Why choose police-work over family? Even if you give him a noble reason, it'll make the character seem cheap and unintersting. And if he were being truly noble, the mother wouldn't need to restrict his contact with their daughter. He'd do that of his own free will.

You might arrange it so that he would be putting his daughter in danger regardless of his profession. Maybe he pissed somebody off, and that person is out to get him and anyone he cares about. That'll take out the mother's non-sensical ultimatum, but keep the dilemma intact. And he would want to use his police connections to get rid of the threat to his family. But that might not fit your story, for all I know.

[Niteowl]

My best guess is that the dad's involvement with the police might bring criminal attention to the family?

There would have to be a very strong motivation for the father to pick police work over his family. Maybe they had a son before the daughter, who got murdered. And still haven't found the murderer. The father is still hoping that the tip will come in that will bring his son's murderer to justice.

This will, of course, bring about all sorts of conflict with the daughter/father, along the lines of love and favoritism to along dead son. Maybe the daughter is having blocks with her psychic ability because she knows her father's psychic ability has torn apart the family.

My two cents.

[MattDempsey]

does the fathers use of his powers damage him in someway that feeds back into his family life?

For instance, if he sees flashes of crimes does he carry them out in his sleep - has he attacked his wife or frightened her?

If he has decided to keep his work above his family then it is implied that there was a confrontation where a decision was demanded of him - what precipitated that moment.


Perhaps the mother has a religious reason for excluding him. Is his power 'devilry' in her eyes.

[Mr. E]

What if the father had a vision of himself harming his family? And so, to protect them, he moves away and immerses himself in his police work - his heart breaking the entire time.

He does not share his reasons for leaving, so the mother simply thinks he walked out on her.

When he comes back, he does so reluctantly, fearing that his vision might somehow come true.

??

[Cathy C]

Ooo!! I LOVE the "carry them out in his sleep." :hooray: That would totally lend toward the believability, and make Dad heroic and honorable (albeit tragic and sympathetic) for removing himself from their lives (at least until the talents of the MC become known.)

[Chris Grey]

Whether the father's a jerk for staying away at the mother's request depends entirely on two things: why does the mother insist he stays away, and why does he?

If it's for fear of backlash by the criminal community, then he's doing the right thing by keeping his family safe. If it's because she didn't want a husband whose life was consumed by his work (ie, he's never around), and he agreed without trying to work things out, then maybe he's a bit cold-hearted.

I suggest you explain their motives, as that should clear up the believability a bit.

[RLB]

He hasn't been in her life for two reasons.

What's the other reason? That may shed more light...

[JoNightshade]

When MC was a baby, dad and mom were together and in love. Unfortunately dad, a cop, hadn't mentioned to mom that he had psychic powers. (Oops!) Then his partner is killed by some very bad badguys. The other cops can't solve the case without dad and his psychic powers. However the badguys realize that dad is at the center of the investigation and start targeting the fam. Mom learns that dad is a psychic and totally freaks out (wouldn't you?) Bad guys escape and both mom & dad realize that mom & MC will never be safe if dad is around. Helping people is WHO HE IS, and, cop or not, he will never be able to stop himself. Mom leaves with MC and vows to raise her with no knowledge of psychic stuff until she realizes that she can't avoid it.

How's that?

[Novelhistorian]

I think would lend believability if the father visits, but the girl has no idea he does psychic stuff. If it's only on weekends, or if Dad lives in a big city while they live in a small town, she could only see him on holidays. If Mom cautioned Dad NOT to discuss his work, he wouldn't, and Mom could also warn daughter not to tell Dad any "creepy" stuff, and she wouldn't for fear of Dad not wanting her to visit anymore.

Secrets among split families are totally believable. You could even have the girl find out about Dad on television or some such and decide to go to him without telling Mom after something like America's Most Wanted featured his talents.

That would not only make Dad not a jerk, it would make the MC pro-active. :)

I'm with you here. You've addressed the problem from a character point of view, which goes deeper than circumstances, which may seem contrived. This way of rewriting the novel also works because the reader may want to say, "Oh, tell him, already!" But if the secret depends on situation alone, then it's dicier. As others do, I have trouble swallowing why someone would object to a job with the police and deny access to a child because of it. That kind of thing, IMO, just gets you deeper and deeper into intricate circumstance, and after a while, it sounds more contrived than when you started.

Just my two cents.

[Moon Daughter]

What if the father had a vision of himself harming his family? And so, to protect them, he moves away and immerses himself in his police work - his heart breaking the entire time.

He does not share his reasons for leaving, so the mother simply thinks he walked out on her.

When he comes back, he does so reluctantly, fearing that his vision might somehow come true.

??

I LOVE this idea. Someone mentioned before that even if he left for noble reasons, he would seem bad. But I think this could make it work so he is noble, although the reader wouldn't know so until later on in the story. It also raises a lot of stakes, too. Maybe if the father was the daughter's last hope of not going insane from her visions, they could reunite, although he's also wary that something bad is going to happen.

[justpat]

I agree with others here, you first have to explain why working for the cops is such a bad thing.

[Southern_girl29]

Sorry I haven't been on sooner. My computer crashed, and I had to do a complete system restore. Anyway, to answer a few questions:

The father doesn't actually work for the police department. He works with them, helping them to solve cases he gets some kind of reading on them. The mother knows he did this. What caused them to break up was one night their house was broken into by a criminal he had been working to put away and Gracie's (the MC) room was destroyed by the character. This scared the mother, and this is why she told him to stay away.

*He stays away because he knows his job isn't safe, and he wants his daughter to be safe. The mother told him he had to give it up, but he feels as though it is a gift from God and that he is doing a great service to the world in helping the police put these people away.

*The mom is really supposed to come off looking like the jerk, especially to Gracie. She sees it as her mother's fault that her dad wasn't in her life, but at one point in the book, he tells her that he didn't have to do it, that his pride in his work kept him away. He admits to being a jerk about it. He also says that now that he is back in his life, he will give up his work if that's the only way he's able to see her.

*The father pays child support and keeps in contact a little with the mother. She has sent him pictures over the years and kept him up-to-date about Gracie. I thought about not having him have any contact, but I thought that made him an even bigger jerk.

[justpat]

Nothing could keep me away from my kids, I'd have to quit the job.

[Moon Daughter]

I'd have to agree with, justpat. I'd way rather want to be with my child and lover than to put criminals away. Plus, when the guy broke in, did the mother move? If not, then who's to say she's not in danger still? Secondly, how did the criminal know that the father was involved in the case? Was it a high profile case? Nothing wrong with being satisfied with ones work...but is that satisfaction worth losing your family over?

[KatyaFleur]

What kinds of crimes does the dad help solve? Are they murders that have already been committed, or does he also help the police to rescue kidnap victims before they are harmed? If it's the latter, I'd find his commitment to his work quite believable--if he's haunted by images of people in danger, and he knows that if he does nothing, they will be hurt or killed. In his place, I'd feel responsible for anything that happened to them if I refused to help. That might account for his election to continue working and give up his family.

Katya

[jerrymouse]

psychic tendencies,

no, that is not believable.

[Pagey's_Girl]

What kinds of crimes does the dad help solve? Are they murders that have already been committed, or does he also help the police to rescue kidnap victims before they are harmed? If it's the latter, I'd find his commitment to his work quite believable--if he's haunted by images of people in danger, and he knows that if he does nothing, they will be hurt or killed. In his place, I'd feel responsible for anything that happened to them if I refused to help. That might account for his election to continue working and give up his family.

Katya

Building on that, especially if it were children - he'd be torn between protecting his own family and the terrible knowledge that he's the only one who can save someone else's - and what if the situation were reversed? Wouldn't he want that person to help him?

[allenparker]

The mother would have to be the one keeping the father from seeing his daughter.

The majority of fathers would die for their daughter. Quitting the police work wouldn't use any thought processes.

It is believable that the mother would hide the daughter from the father for fear that the criminal element might find their way to the daughter.

There is bunches of stuff to work around the mother and the father tha makes both of them look good or evil, depending on where you are heading if you make the mother the person responsible for the breakup.

just a thought...

[Cathy C]

The mother knows he did this. What caused them to break up was one night their house was broken into by a criminal he had been working to put away and Gracie's (the MC) room was destroyed by the character. This scared the mother, and this is why she told him to stay away

Here's the "not believable" part, IMO. I can understand if it breaks up the family initially. That sort of maternal panic really does happen. But if she sees him putting away the criminals in the press, eventually she's going to realize she overreacted. I really do think you need to beef up the continual nature of the problem. Every type of psychic power has a downfall. Here are a few scenarios that would both make it more believable and that have worked in other series:

1. The psychic is a "touch psychic". Bring the person an item and they relive the event until the person's death--including emotions, actions and fear. It's an ugly sort of psychic talent. The person really doesn't WANT to help, but because they're so tied to each person, they can't NOT continue to help until the criminal is caught.

2. The psychic hears the voices of those who just died, or are about to die. The psychic seldom gets the opportunity to say NO. They're badgered by the recently dead until they help.

3. The psychic is a "premonition" psychic, picking up on flashes of events yet ot happen that can come any time of the day or night. This kind of psychic wouldn't necessarily work with the police except to warn them of something they DIDN'T already know about.

A touch psychic would insulate his family and he probably would refuse to help the police if it would be a danger to them. The psychic who is the "I see dead people" sort can't help being involved, but the family would seldom know about it, so it's not something that would break up the family--and the event with the criminal breaking in probably wouldn't happen.

The premonition psychic would likely never encounter the killer. If he got a sympathetic police chief/sergeant, etc., his involvement would never make the press.

So, I think the believability issue stems from two problems:

A. The Dad has a relationship with the police that puts himself and his family in danger. The type of psychic he is has to be carefully created to make that believable (since psychics working with the police are often on the fringes of believablity anyway.)

B. The threat to the family has to be REAL and CONSTANT enough to warrant the family breaking up. The Dad has to be unwilling to fix the problem AND the Mother has to not have regrets. If it's the only problem they had, it's stretching believability. I think you might need to do a "straw that broke the camel's back" sort of relationship instead. There were already other problems--maybe he drank too much to keep the psychic stuff tamped down? He's sober now, but Mom knows (not the MC, but MOM) that he could go off the deep end again any time. That's not something you discuss with your teenage daughter. Or maybe they only married because she was pregnant. He was exciting, but in day-to-day stuff they didn't really mesh. Etc., etc. Unless part of the book's plot is to get them back together, you just have to make the break-up and continued lack of contact enough that the reader will let it slide. So far, from what I've read, it's not.

Just a few ideas. Good luck with it!

[Southern_girl29]

Here's the "not believable" part, IMO. I can understand if it breaks up the family initially. That sort of maternal panic really does happen. But if she sees him putting away the criminals in the press, eventually she's going to realize she overreacted. I really do think you need to beef up the continual nature of the problem. Every type of psychic power has a downfall. Here are a few scenarios that would both make it more believable and that have worked in other series:

1. The psychic is a "touch psychic". Bring the person an item and they relive the event until the person's death--including emotions, actions and fear. It's an ugly sort of psychic talent. The person really doesn't WANT to help, but because they're so tied to each person, they can't NOT continue to help until the criminal is caught.

2. The psychic hears the voices of those who just died, or are about to die. The psychic seldom gets the opportunity to say NO. They're badgered by the recently dead until they help.

3. The psychic is a "premonition" psychic, picking up on flashes of events yet ot happen that can come any time of the day or night. This kind of psychic wouldn't necessarily work with the police except to warn them of something they DIDN'T already know about.

A touch psychic would insulate his family and he probably would refuse to help the police if it would be a danger to them. The psychic who is the "I see dead people" sort can't help being involved, but the family would seldom know about it, so it's not something that would break up the family--and the event with the criminal breaking in probably wouldn't happen.

The premonition psychic would likely never encounter the killer. If he got a sympathetic police chief/sergeant, etc., his involvement would never make the press.

So, I think the believability issue stems from two problems:

A. The Dad has a relationship with the police that puts himself and his family in danger. The type of psychic he is has to be carefully created to make that believable (since psychics working with the police are often on the fringes of believablity anyway.)

B. The threat to the family has to be REAL and CONSTANT enough to warrant the family breaking up. The Dad has to be unwilling to fix the problem AND the Mother has to not have regrets. If it's the only problem they had, it's stretching believability. I think you might need to do a "straw that broke the camel's back" sort of relationship instead. There were already other problems--maybe he drank too much to keep the psychic stuff tamped down? He's sober now, but Mom knows (not the MC, but MOM) that he could go off the deep end again any time. That's not something you discuss with your teenage daughter. Or maybe they only married because she was pregnant. He was exciting, but in day-to-day stuff they didn't really mesh. Etc., etc. Unless part of the book's plot is to get them back together, you just have to make the break-up and continued lack of contact enough that the reader will let it slide. So far, from what I've read, it's not.

Just a few ideas. Good luck with it!

The father can't hear the voices of the dead, although his daughter can. He is a touch psychic and he also has premonitions. The mom does tell the daughter that they would have probably broken up anyway, because they just didn't get along in day to day life. They do not get back together in this book. I have thought about making this a series (and in fact, my Beta Reader thought it would make a great series) and having the parents get back together in the last book. The first book doesn't even really deal with them getting back together at all, although Gracie has the idea that they might still have feelings for each other deep down.

[Southern_girl29]

Building off of what someone else said, what if the father does see himself hurting his family. He doesn't have a strong sense of what is going to happen. He doesn't know if he is going to do it himself or if he's going to inadvertently (sp) lead them to danger. He knows something is going to happen. He can tell that, just not exactly what.

So, Gracie starts having these visions and doesn't know how to handle it. Her mother doesn't know what to do either. So, she calls the father. The father is torn between helping his daughter, who he really wants to see and get to know, and the fact that he knows he's going to do something to put them in danger. He comes anyway. He tells Gracie about the premonition that he had, which he had kept from the mother.

The visions Gracie has is of her mother being killed. It turns out that a serial killer is after her. The killer is always one step ahead of them, and they can't figure out why. He kidnaps the mother, and Gracie, her father, and two of her father's students (he works at a university doing research in paranormal psychology) go to find her. At the end of the book, the serial killer is revealed to be a former student of the father's. The killer stabs Gracie, but she is able to fight him off until the police get there. Anyway, with this scenario, the father really did bring a real danger to Gracie and her mother, and they did get hurt.

Would this make it more believable?

[JoNightshade]

Building off of what someone else said, what if the father does see himself hurting his family. He doesn't have a strong sense of what is going to happen. He doesn't know if he is going to do it himself or if he's going to inadvertently (sp) lead them to danger. He knows something is going to happen. He can tell that, just not exactly what.

Would this make it more believable?

Okay, I still think it needs to be a bit stronger. I feel like if the dad loves his daughter-- he doesn't know WHAT bad thing is going to happen-- he would want to be there to protect her. I think it would be impossible for a father to contemplate harming his own child, and if he had a vague premonition it would not be enough to compel him to leave. He would probably disregard it, thinking "I love my family, I would never hurt them." If it was that vague, I think the dad would just assume he had gotten something wrong. Or he would wait until something WAS clear. You don't leave your family over a "maybe."

[Cathy C]

What if . . . and this is just a thought, but what if the Dad believes HE is the one that is going to kill the Mom while Gracie is in the room? What if the killer looks really, really similar to the Dad--quite intentionally to throw the police off track. It might not occur to Dad that if he's seeing the murder, he must be the FOURTH person in the room, so it's not him doing it? Gracie would ALSO see her Dad killing her Mom, which panics her and adds tension, and believability. :)

[Southern_girl29]

What if . . . and this is just a thought, but what if the Dad believes HE is the one that is going to kill the Mom while Gracie is in the room? What if the killer looks really, really similar to the Dad--quite intentionally to throw the police off track. It might not occur to Dad that if he's seeing the murder, he must be the FOURTH person in the room, so it's not him doing it? Gracie would ALSO see her Dad killing her Mom, which panics her and adds tension, and believability. :)

While I really like this idea, I've set it up where Gracie has to have a little trust in her dad in order to learn how to control her psychic abilities. If I did this, she wouldn't trust him at all. I need that trust to accomplish what I set out to do.

My beta reader gave me two suggestions. He thought that maybe the dad had been in a mental institution for a while, because everyone thought he was crazy because of the visions. The mother would think he was unstable, too, which might give her even more of a reason to keep him away. He also suggested that he doesn't tell Gracie anymore than he already had about why he stayed away for so long, but she realizes he's not a jerk and knows it had to be something more. He said I could write a sequel and answer it in that one. I'm not sure if that will satisfy the reader or not.

[Cathy C]

That's a point. But I submit two thoughts in defense:

1) Leap of faith. Gracie instinctively (psychic senses) knows to trust him, even though Mom doesn't.

2) Gracie can be the one to realize that it's NOT Dad who's the killer. She has a different POV in the premonition and can realize that Dad's in two places in the vision---which confused her at first, thinking she was seeing a mirror in the room or some such.

Still, your friend's way works too. But this would be a nifty trick for the reader to figure out. :)

[Moon Daughter]

While I really like this idea, I've set it up where Gracie has to have a little trust in her dad in order to learn how to control her psychic abilities. If I did this, she wouldn't trust him at all. I need that trust to accomplish what I set out to do.

My beta reader gave me two suggestions. He thought that maybe the dad had been in a mental institution for a while, because everyone thought he was crazy because of the visions. The mother would think he was unstable, too, which might give her even more of a reason to keep him away. He also suggested that he doesn't tell Gracie anymore than he already had about why he stayed away for so long, but she realizes he's not a jerk and knows it had to be something more. He said I could write a sequel and answer it in that one. I'm not sure if that will satisfy the reader or not.

I think making it look like that the dad is insane to other characters is a bad step. If he was "insane" then I doubt the police would work with him. The police would have to think he's legit for them to waste their time on his so-called visions.

[Southern_girl29]

I think making it look like that the dad is insane to other characters is a bad step. If he was "insane" then I doubt the police would work with him. The police would have to think he's legit for them to waste their time on his so-called visions.

That's kind of what I was thinking, too. I had been thinking about Cathy's idea all night. I really, really like this idea, but it would change just about everything about my book, and I don't know yet if I'm willing to do that or not.

The father comes to help Gracie with her visions. He doesn't know if she's seeing things that will definately happen or things that could happen if they don't act. He tells her that not all visions are meant to happen, some are just meant to warn people.

When he first comes to their house, he doesn't know who is after Gracie's mom. Gracie has a dream of a girl that has been killed by the same man who is after Gracie's mom. The dead girl tells Gracie her name and tells her to tell her father, that he will know what it means. So, when Gracie wakes up, she tells her father the dead girl's name, and he knows it's a killer he's been tracking for a while, because he knows the girl is one of the man's victims. I really don't want to lose this scene, because it's the first time Gracie has communicated with the dead and it shows, instead of telling, that she's able to do that.

I'm just brainstorming here, really, and I appreciate all the help everyone has given me.

[Moon Daughter]

There are ways to keep your storyline without ripping it into pieces to make it seem more realistic. Don't worry...you'll get it. In the meantime, maybe on separate pieces of paper, you could write the possibilities of where the storyline could go. Maybe you'll end up finding you like another plot better than the one you have prepared now.

[janetbellinger]

Maybe the mother has some reason for hating the police. Perhaps she's a criminal or was mistrated by the police or is a psychic herself and belongs to a psychic association that doesn't believe in helping the police. There could be dozens of reasons why she doesn't want the father to work with the police and I bet SG has shown it quite well in her novel.

Hmm....I'm a little confused why it made the mom so mad that Dad worked with the police. Is she anti-police? Worried he would get hurt?

Why is this job so important to him?

If these questions are answered, I don't see it as a problem.

[Southern_girl29]

Maybe the mother has some reason for hating the police. Perhaps she's a criminal or was mistrated by the police or is a psychic herself and belongs to a psychic association that doesn't believe in helping the police. There could be dozens of reasons why she doesn't want the father to work with the police and I bet SG has shown it quite well in her novel.

Thanks Janet. The mother is so not anti-police at all. After their house is broken into by one of the criminals the father is trying to bring to justice, the mother is afraid for her safety and her daughter's safety. She realizes it will probably only get worse in the future. So, she tells him it's either working with police and criminals or their family. He chooses working with the police and criminals. He feels he has to do it, that it's the right thing to do.

I'm still brainstorming on this. I'm going to come up with something to help me make it more believable. It might just take me a while.

[Southern_girl29]

More brainstorming. What do you think about this?

So, the mother tells the father that as long as he is working with the police, he can't see his daughter. He tells her OK and lets her believe that he doesn't want to give up his work. But, that's not the real reason. He's had a vision that he has hurt Gracie. He sees her as a teenager, holding her arm, covered in blood, with himself in front of her. He thinks he's the one bringing danger to her.

When Gracie starts having visions of her mother being hurt, the mother calls the father and tells him the visions are driving Gracie crazy. So, he weighs the decision whether to come or not. He wants to meet his daughter but he's still scared. Of course, the reader will not know all of this, because we're never in his POV. We're always in Gracie's. She doesn't believe his story. She sees that he's not a jerk, not the type of person to stay away simply because his job isn't right for him. She also notices that he avoids being alone with her. When he decides to fly in two of his students to help out, she really notices it.

In the book, I already have a scene where they go to see a victim who matches the description of the ones the serial killer targets. The father balks and tells her she can't go. She tells him that he can't tell her what to do, that he never acted like a father in the first place, and he can't start now. So, he lets her go, but he also tells her they are going out together without anyone else at all so they can talk.

I thought I could have him tell her then about the vision he had. She can tell him she trusts him not to hurt her physically. But, then at the end, when it's revealed the killer used to be a student of the fathers, the father realizes he really did hurt her, just not by his own hand. It explains the reason for the vision and ties that up nicely.

So, what do you think? More believable? Or should I still work on it?

[Moon Daughter]

The big question for me is still why would the mother give the husband that ultamatum? Is that her only option? Telling the father it's the police or them?

[Southern_girl29]

The big question for me is still why would the mother give the husband that ultamatum? Is that her only option? Telling the father it's the police or them?

What if the father told the mother about the vision? The only reason she calls him in the first place is because she thinks Gracie is going to drive herself crazy if she doesn't get a handle on the visions, so maybe her worry over Gracie's sanity would allow her to get over the worry about the father's vision.

[Moon Daughter]

Hmm, well if the mother knew about the father's vision that he was going to supposedly kill Gracie, then wouldn't she look for help elsewhere first? Is her sanity more important than her life? If so, explain why in your story.

[MattDempsey]

It did occur to me the other day that one reason for the lack of contact the father has could be an affair the mother had about 9 months before your MC was born.

Perhaps the father is convinced that he isn't the father.

Now, when psychic powers are manifested, imagine the guilt the father feels - it was his daughter after all.

It gives an explanation for the father leaving his wife as well.

[MKayHavoc]

Heres my idea.

How about he doesn't officially work for the cops, but it's kind of his own personal mission. He solves crimes and then let the cops know type thing, maybe he has one perticular contact in the force that trusts him.

How about if his activities had put his wife and child in danger at some point? Maybe a criminal had figured out were he lived and had gone after him? In this case his wife could have told him to leave unless he stops doing it as it is putting them in danger? And he doesn't stop because he feels it's his responsibility to catch these people?

[Southern_girl29]

Heres my idea.

How about he doesn't officially work for the cops, but it's kind of his own personal mission. He solves crimes and then let the cops know type thing, maybe he has one perticular contact in the force that trusts him.

How about if his activities had put his wife and child in danger at some point? Maybe a criminal had figured out were he lived and had gone after him? In this case his wife could have told him to leave unless he stops doing it as it is putting them in danger? And he doesn't stop because he feels it's his responsibility to catch these people?

This is basically how I have it set up. He works with the cops, not for them. He doesn't get paid to do it. He's more like a consultant, I guess you could say. One of the criminals figures out he's helping the police and breaks into their house. Gracie's room is destroyed and that makes the mother want him to quit, because she knows the criminals will target the ones the father loves.

How about if the mother and father walk in on the criminal destroying the house? The father gets hurts. The mother tells him she can't deal with the idea of him being hurt or killed or the idea of Gracie being hurt or killed. The father has had the vision of him hurting Gracie, so he agrees to stay away.

[JoNightshade]

He sees her as a teenager, holding her arm, covered in blood, with himself in front of her. He thinks he's the one bringing danger to her.


If he knows he doesn't hurt her until she's a teenager, why leave when she is a baby? Wait til she's older and might be able to understand.

[Moon Daughter]

Another concern....even if the father does leave, does Gracie and the mother leave as well? I mean, if the dad is going to leave, the criminal is still going to know where they live if they don't move. If it really is a criminal trying to get back at the father, I'm sure they would hurt the family as well.

Two: If the mom and dad do split and the mom tries to contact him when Gracie starts basically losing her insanity, how is she going to find him? Do they keep in touch? (which, to me, wouldn't be a great idea since if someone really was trying to get back at him, they could easily figure out where his loved ones are) What if mom and Gracie move away and father stays at the house? That way, when the mother does contact him, maybe she just knows that he's still there?

I don't know...just a thought.

[Southern_girl29]

Another concern....even if the father does leave, does Gracie and the mother leave as well? I mean, if the dad is going to leave, the criminal is still going to know where they live if they don't move. If it really is a criminal trying to get back at the father, I'm sure they would hurt the family as well.

Two: If the mom and dad do split and the mom tries to contact him when Gracie starts basically losing her insanity, how is she going to find him? Do they keep in touch? (which, to me, wouldn't be a great idea since if someone really was trying to get back at him, they could easily figure out where his loved ones are) What if mom and Gracie move away and father stays at the house? That way, when the mother does contact him, maybe she just knows that he's still there?

I don't know...just a thought.

For your first point, I had it where the father and the mother stayed in contact because he paid child support to her. They've stayed in touch, but not over the phone. She has sent him letters about Gracie over the years along with pictures.

On your second point, that is already covered. The mother and father met when he was in Tennessee helping with a police case. They fell in love, quickly, and the mother moved to Florida to be with him. When they split up, she moved back to Tennessee, and he stayed in Florida.

Thank you for helping me brainstorm. It's much appreciated.

[aliajohnson]

I like the idea of the father having a mental er. . ."break." Too many dark cases and he starts feeling like they're becoming part of him. He no longer knows himself, trusts himself. Maybe he's too late in saving someone? His marriage is falling apart, someone he's trying (did?) put away breaks into their home. It piles up and he cracks under the pressure (cripes, who wouldn't?). So when the mom says, "no more," he thinks "yeah, that's for the best. I'm a danger to myself and others" and leaves. No insane asylum necessary. Just a long (maybe longer than intended) journey to someplace where he can screw his head back on and learn how to better manage his "gifts." If he had a long and mostly sucessful relationship with a PD prior to this, they'd still work with him when he got back.

Just an idea. :D

[Southern_girl29]

I'm still brainstorming on this. I'm kind of stuck on the idea of the father having a vision where he sees that he will hurt Gracie, and that's why he stays away. So, what about this?

Instead of just coming home to a house that's been destroyed by the criminal, maybe the dad sees a vision of what is happening at the house, and they rush home. In the process, he's hurt, probably shot. She tells him while he's in the hospital that he has to give it up, that she can't stand the thought of him being hurt again or killed and doesn't want to bring that down on Gracie. He argues with her about it, but eventually agrees.

She goes home for a while to be with Gracie, and when she comes back the next day, he tells her he can't give it up, that he has to keep doing it. He doesn't give a reason why, except to say that it is a calling and a gift from God that he can't give up. While she has been gone, he has the vision of Gracie being hurt. He sees blood and Gracie's name and in the background hears someone saying, "It's your fault, Jack (that's his name). You're the one who did it to her. You're the one who hurt Gracie." Or something like that.

So, the mother leaves, terribly hurt by his decision and the fact that he can't/won't tell her why he changed his mind. By the time he decides to take his chances with the vision, he feels it's too late, that Gracie's life is set, and he would be intruding.

So, when Sarah (the mother) calls him, the one thing he wants more than anything is to meet his daughter. He decides again to take the risk of hurting her as the vision says he will just to have the opportunity to see her.

When he comes to Tennessee to see Gracie and help her, he just tells her he was young and stupid and really believed in what he was doing. She can tell that he isn't a big enough jerk to do that without a good enough reason, so she really doesn't believe. It will come out near the end of the book when Gracie and Jack go out to dinner together to get to know each other after a huge argument between the two of them.

What do you think?

[Southern_girl29]

I like the idea of the father having a mental er. . ."break." Too many dark cases and he starts feeling like they're becoming part of him. He no longer knows himself, trusts himself. Maybe he's too late in saving someone? His marriage is falling apart, someone he's trying (did?) put away breaks into their home. It piles up and he cracks under the pressure (cripes, who wouldn't?). So when the mom says, "no more," he thinks "yeah, that's for the best. I'm a danger to myself and others" and leaves. No insane asylum necessary. Just a long (maybe longer than intended) journey to someplace where he can screw his head back on and learn how to better manage his "gifts." If he had a long and mostly sucessful relationship with a PD prior to this, they'd still work with him when he got back.

Just an idea. :D

This is a pretty good idea. But, how do I explain him staying away for 13 years? Wouldn't he look them up when he comes back? Also, I need him to be working with students at a university in paranormal psychology research.

[aliajohnson]

This is a pretty good idea. But, how do I explain him staying away for 13 years? Wouldn't he look them up when he comes back? Also, I need him to be working with students at a university in paranormal psychology research.

Hmmm. . .good questions.

Is the university near the MC? Forgive me if you mention this elsewhere and I missed it.

[Southern_girl29]

Hmmm. . .good questions.

Is the university near the MC? Forgive me if you mention this elsewhere and I missed it.

No, the university is in Florida where the father lives. Gracie lives in Tennessee.

[Thomas White]

I've only read the first post, so sorry if this has been suggested before, but here's my idea.

The family live in a particularly dangerous and corrupt city, full of organised crime. Eventually, the father begins to draw attention to himself because of all the good he is doing, or he uncovers a sinister plot, and the mobs are sick of him ruining their plans. Through one method or another, they find out his identity and put a bounty on his head. Or, one tracks him down and tells him he can leave or face death. He was forced to leave the city to keep his family safe.

[MattDempsey]

You say the father is not as complete a psychic as Grace, what if this manifests itself similar to an Obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD). Perhaps he is forced to work on cases and has no choice.

For the partners of compulsive handwashers life must be hard enough, but what if the father is driven to acts like splashing blood in the back yard for days and nights until he gets a pattern like the one in his head? After months / years of this perhaps the wife had enough.

"You love your work more than you love me _or_ your daughter."

"You don't understand. I have to, now back out of the light, your shadow is breaking the symmetry"

"Noel, I just can't talk to you anymore"

Years later, Noel gets put on medication which gives him some control over his life again but there is a wedge between him and his family. His obsessive attention to detail has given his expertise for his teaching job.


Also, you keep wondering about the father but you have said nothing about the mother at all. Does she play any part in his leaving?

[Southern_girl29]

You say the father is not as complete a psychic as Grace, what if this manifests itself similar to an Obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD). Perhaps he is forced to work on cases and has no choice.

For the partners of compulsive handwashers life must be hard enough, but what if the father is driven to acts like splashing blood in the back yard for days and nights until he gets a pattern like the one in his head? After months / years of this perhaps the wife had enough.

"You love your work more than you love me _or_ your daughter."

"You don't understand. I have to, now back out of the light, your shadow is breaking the symmetry"

"Noel, I just can't talk to you anymore"

Years later, Noel gets put on medication which gives him some control over his life again but there is a wedge between him and his family. His obsessive attention to detail has given his expertise for his teaching job.


Also, you keep wondering about the father but you have said nothing about the mother at all. Does she play any part in his leaving?

I'm not sure if the above scenario would work. I'm targeting the younger YA market with it.

The mother does play a part in his leaving. Actually, she leaves him, but she tells him to stay away as long as he's in a dangerous line of work.

[aliajohnson]

This is a pretty good idea. But, how do I explain him staying away for 13 years? Wouldn't he look them up when he comes back? Also, I need him to be working with students at a university in paranormal psychology research.

How about this? (sorry about the delay)

He leaves of his own accord the first time (mom doesn’t want him to go) because he doesn’t trust his own mental stability, and is honestly afraid he might hurt someone (the vision if you like). He stays a few years (six maybe?) in a place overseas (monastery like place?) learning to better control his gifts (meditation, etc--things you can have him pass on to his daughter later).

Mom, unable to fully understand what he’s going through, sees this as out right abandonment, and when he returns to the states and asks to see their daughter, she says “no way”. He walked away once, what’s to stop him from doing so again? And hurting their daughter immeasurably in the process? Plus, he's working with the police again. Plus, he broke her heart and she's not quite ready to forgive that.

Since she’s been raising their daughter alone for the last six years, he abides by her wishes and stays in Florida (Where he's teaching, studying, or otherwise putting some of the things he learned overseas to use--maybe hoping to help others like him avoid the mental break he had). But he writes, calls her at work, sends child support, and asks for pictures, updates, etc for the next five years. And his interest (plus regular conversations with him wherein they’ve gotten to know each other again a little) makes mom less and less afraid he’s going to pop into their life only to pop out again. She’s considering “reintroducing” father and daughter sometime in the fuzzy future, but when she realizes her daughter needs help only dad can provide, that plan gets fast tracked.

Phew--how’s that?

Oh--side note--does he HAVE to be in Florida? :D Could he be someplace closer so he feels like he could get to them if he were needed? Now that he trusts himself to be around them, of course.

Hope something in there is useful to you.

[Southern_girl29]

Alia, that's a great idea.

To expand on your idea, how about the father has received a research fellowship at a university in France, but he decided not to take it because of his family. Well, the mother gives her ultimatum, he says he'll give up the work (while he's in the hospital after being injured). While she's at home with Gracie, he has the vision of him hurting her. He tries to work out a way in his mind to hide it from them but still get himself away. So, when the mother comes back the next day, he tells her he's taking the fellowship. She's hurt, wants to know why he's going to do it, etc., etc., etc. He won't tell her the real reason (he needs a break from working with the police, but if he did that, he could be around Gracie per her mother's ultimatum, but he doesn't want that because of the vision), so she leaves mad and hurt. He goes on the fellowship (two or three years), and he comes back. He even goes to see Gracie and her mother, but the mother turns him away. She's still hurt, and he's back to working with the police. Gracie kind of remembers him coming that time, but only vaguely. She isn't even sure it's her father, except for a feeling she has.

Like you said above, he does keep in contact with her, and she has thought about it, but she wants to do it on her own time and she still has doubts. So, when Gracie brings it up, she tells her to stop and not saying anything else about it. Then, Gracie has the visions, and the mother needs the father to come back to help Gracie.

He has to decide between the want to know his daughter and the want to keep her safe. In the end, he decides to go and help her. When he tells Gracie that the reason he stayed away was the fellowship and the fact he didn't want to give up working with the police, she doesn't buy it. He doesn't seem like that big of a jerk to her, plus she sees something in his mind that lets her know it isn't true.

What do you think?

[Southern_girl29]

Oh, and most of this happens off-screen. We don't see it happening at all. It's just all going to be related back to Gracie at some point.

[Stuart Clark]

How about the visions only come to the father in fragments - it takes him a while to put a case together and finally understand the pieces because they come to him in flashes.

This gift of psychic vision is something that only came to him later in life (shortly after your MC was born - maybe it was her birth and her psychic power that triggered something in her father - she inherited it from him but it had remained latent in him until she was born. The strength of her psychic power awakened something in him.) When the visions first started occuring the father didn't understand what they were. He honestly thought he was going mad. Seeing such graphic things in his minds eye, he wasn't sure if he was seeing events past or things yet to come and whether they were acts committed by his own hand or another's. He genuinely feared for the safety of his family and was afraid that he might harm them so he left.

The parents marriage was already deteriorating because of the father's fragile mental state but the mother never truly understood why he left so holds a lot of resentment towards him (he abandoned them as far as she is concerned).Over time he has come to realize that these mental flashes are indeed a gift and can be used for good to help the police solve cases which he has been doing now for years. Happier now, in the knowledge that his visions are not things of his doing, he is ready to come back to the family to reconcile but the mother is not quite so ready to forgive.

Just some thoughts.

Good luck with it.
Stuart

[Stuart Clark]

Okay, you got me thinking and I thought some more about this, further to the above....

The mother reluctantly calls the father because she sees the strange behaviour in her daughter that she saw in her husband all those years ago - and whilst she chalks the first loss up to life's rich pattern, she does not want to lose the daughter too.

The father immediately recognizes the signs and comes to help the daughter. He realizes that she is having visions of her mother's imminent murder - but like him, they are coming to her in incoherent flashes. He must teach her how to harness her power to make some sense out of it all (father-daughter bonding) otherwise the mother's murder will surely happen.

Unfortunately for him, he cannot get a "lock" on these same visions because of all the bad blood between him and his wife all those years ago. To see his visions, he must have compasion/empathy for future victims (thereby making him a sympathetic character) and he resents his wife for the way she has treated him and kept him away from his daughter.

The daughter is therefore key, they are now in a desperate race against time - for him to teach the daughter to correctly assemble the clues to save the mother.

Unfortunately, the one vision that will solve the case eludes the daughter. The mother is unaware of the fact that her salvation lies in finally forgiving the husband and learning to love him again, at which point, he may be able to see the final piece of the puzzle and save her life.

Happy Family
The End.

Damn! Makes me wish I'd written it!
Good Luck!

[Southern_girl29]

Okay, you got me thinking and I thought some more about this, further to the above....

The mother reluctantly calls the father because she sees the strange behaviour in her daughter that she saw in her husband all those years ago - and whilst she chalks the first loss up to life's rich pattern, she does not want to lose the daughter too.

The father immediately recognizes the signs and comes to help the daughter. He realizes that she is having visions of her mother's imminent murder - but like him, they are coming to her in incoherent flashes. He must teach her how to harness her power to make some sense out of it all (father-daughter bonding) otherwise the mother's murder will surely happen.

Unfortunately for him, he cannot get a "lock" on these same visions because of all the bad blood between him and his wife all those years ago. To see his visions, he must have compasion/empathy for future victims (thereby making him a sympathetic character) and he resents his wife for the way she has treated him and kept him away from his daughter.

The daughter is therefore key, they are now in a desperate race against time - for him to teach the daughter to correctly assemble the clues to save the mother.

Unfortunately, the one vision that will solve the case eludes the daughter. The mother is unaware of the fact that her salvation lies in finally forgiving the husband and learning to love him again, at which point, he may be able to see the final piece of the puzzle and save her life.

Happy Family
The End.

Damn! Makes me wish I'd written it!
Good Luck!

Thanks for the ideas. You know I might have to use this in a later book, because I'm planning for this to be a series. In the last book of the series, the mother and father get together. Your last paragraph would be great for that book.

[aliajohnson]

Alia, that's a great idea.

To expand on your idea, how about the father has received a research fellowship at a university in France, but he decided not to take it because of his family. Well, the mother gives her ultimatum, he says he'll give up the work (while he's in the hospital after being injured). While she's at home with Gracie, he has the vision of him hurting her. He tries to work out a way in his mind to hide it from them but still get himself away. So, when the mother comes back the next day, he tells her he's taking the fellowship. She's hurt, wants to know why he's going to do it, etc., etc., etc. He won't tell her the real reason (he needs a break from working with the police, but if he did that, he could be around Gracie per her mother's ultimatum, but he doesn't want that because of the vision), so she leaves mad and hurt. He goes on the fellowship (two or three years), and he comes back. He even goes to see Gracie and her mother, but the mother turns him away. She's still hurt, and he's back to working with the police. Gracie kind of remembers him coming that time, but only vaguely. She isn't even sure it's her father, except for a feeling she has.

Like you said above, he does keep in contact with her, and she has thought about it, but she wants to do it on her own time and she still has doubts. So, when Gracie brings it up, she tells her to stop and not saying anything else about it. Then, Gracie has the visions, and the mother needs the father to come back to help Gracie.

He has to decide between the want to know his daughter and the want to keep her safe. In the end, he decides to go and help her. When he tells Gracie that the reason he stayed away was the fellowship and the fact he didn't want to give up working with the police, she doesn't buy it. He doesn't seem like that big of a jerk to her, plus she sees something in his mind that lets her know it isn't true.

What do you think?


I think this is great. Couple of issues you'd have to clear up though. It may be that these are addressed and I've somehow missed them. If so, sorry!

1. Why doesn't he tell the mom about the vision right off? The worse she could do is tell him to get gone. And since that's what he's planning on anyway, what would be the point of lying?

2. What happened in the years he was in France to make him believe he was no longer such a terrible threat to his daughter that he can't see her at all? It's a jump to have him walk out entirely for her safety then show back up at her door three (?) years later.

Okay, that's all I got for now. Well, that and the comment that I like Stuart Clark's ideas. :D

[JoNightshade]

Thanks for the ideas. You know I might have to use this in a later book, because I'm planning for this to be a series. In the last book of the series, the mother and father get together. Your last paragraph would be great for that book.

Not to say that you can't do it, and this is a totally different issue, but I've heard that having a mom and dad get back together after a divorce is kind of a no-no in YA fiction. Personally I'm all for it, but I've heard that it's frowned upon as giving kids false expectations when their own parents split up. IE, "Maybe my parents could still get back together! They did in this story!"

Of course maybe your characters aren't actually divorced. I guess that would work. :)

[Southern_girl29]

I think this is great. Couple of issues you'd have to clear up though. It may be that these are addressed and I've somehow missed them. If so, sorry!

1. Why doesn't he tell the mom about the vision right off? The worse she could do is tell him to get gone. And since that's what he's planning on anyway, what would be the point of lying?

2. What happened in the years he was in France to make him believe he was no longer such a terrible threat to his daughter that he can't see her at all? It's a jump to have him walk out entirely for her safety then show back up at her door three (?) years later.

Okay, that's all I got for now. Well, that and the comment that I like Stuart Clark's ideas. :D

1. He's ashamed of the fact that he thinks he could do something to hurt her. He doesn't want anyone to know it and wishes he could forget it himself.

2. When he comes back from France, he has learned through research that not all visions come true. Some are just warnings. So, he decides to take a chance that it might just be a warning and come back for a visit. He sees then how hurt the mother is and knows he has to win her trust back. So, he starts paying child support, sends letters, asks for pictures, etc. The mother starts to trust him a little more and hate him a little less. When Gracie starts to have the visions, the mother knows she can trust him.

[aliajohnson]

1. He's ashamed of the fact that he thinks he could do something to hurt her. He doesn't want anyone to know it and wishes he could forget it himself.

2. When he comes back from France, he has learned through research that not all visions come true. Some are just warnings. So, he decides to take a chance that it might just be a warning and come back for a visit. He sees then how hurt the mother is and knows he has to win her trust back. So, he starts paying child support, sends letters, asks for pictures, etc. The mother starts to trust him a little more and hate him a little less. When Gracie starts to have the visions, the mother knows she can trust him.

Nice! That would definitely address the two questions I had. A couple more suggestions (though I don't know that they're absolutely necessary) One is to have a reason he'd believe he might actually be capable of hurting his daughter. I think if I had a vision of myself causing physical harm to one of my nieces or nephews, I'd automatically say--I don't believe that--I would never, ever do something like that. It just isn't possible.

Maybe dad accidently hurt his sister as a child? Something that would make him touchy in that area might help.

Second suggestion is to have him sending child support from day one. Unless you're going for all out dead beat dad (and that's a kind of character it would be hard to empathize with) he should at least be making certain his child had the necessities.

Hope that helps. :D

[Southern_girl29]

Thanks all of you. I'm about to go away for the weekend to my inlaws, and I'm taking the printout with me, along with a notebook to take notes in. I'm going to make the changes on paper and then go back into the file and do it. It will help keep my mind off the torturous time at my inlaws.

[aliajohnson]

Good Luck! With the writing and the in-laws. :D

Have a safe trip and let us know what you've come up with when you get back.

[Southern_girl29]

Good Luck! With the writing and the in-laws. :D

Have a safe trip and let us know what you've come up with when you get back.

Thanks Alia. The trip wasn't too bad, but I didn't have a lot of time to work on it. I wanted to give it a quick read through before I started making changes, but I didn't get finished. I'm going to start making the changes anyway in the next few minutes. Thanks again for all your help, and thanks to everyone else, too.