A stupid question about scene breaks

seun · May 14, 2007

I got this from http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26126

'One of the most confusing issues in writing, a "scene break" is also considered a line break or POV switch. An author should either use an extra double space (the ONLY time when this is acceptable) or a single or double hash mark ("#", found above the number 3 on the keyboard), against the left margin to indicate a line break.'

And I have to clarify it. Is it best to finish the scene, go down to the next line and put ##, then go down another line to begin to the next scene -

[FONT=&quot]They move together and do not look back to the eyes that watch them.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]##[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Kev is in the lead as they come to the Medical Office.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Or put two lines before and after the ##? [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

JoNightshade · May 14, 2007

Oh crud, is this what I'm supposed to do on manuscripts?

seun · May 14, 2007

I prefer how two lines looks, but then what do I know?

scarletpeaches · May 14, 2007

I press enter, centre one #, enter again, indent for the first paragraph of the next scene, and continue.

seun · May 14, 2007

Thank you, lovely ladies. That's more or less what I've been doing for the last 100 pages.

Go, me.

scarletpeaches · May 14, 2007

And don't forget, before you submit the manuscript, change the font of the entire book into wingdings. Every agent I know thinks that's just smashing.

seun · May 14, 2007

Or I could just type it in Klingon.

Kristin Landon · May 14, 2007

Go, you!

I do not do what scarletpeaches does (no doubt a wise policy in general). Leaving just a blank line can lead to confused readers and eventually to compositor errors if the blank line happens to appear at the start or end of a page.

I center the # because as a copyeditor that's how I mark that kind of space for comp—a centered # with a circle around it (the copyeditor will add the circle on your ms.—no need to worry about that).

And it's prettier, centered.

James D. Macdonald · May 14, 2007

Single hash mark (#), centered, alone on its own line.

That's how to mark scene breaks.

Jamesaritchie · May 14, 2007

seun said:
I got this from http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26126

'One of the most confusing issues in writing, a "scene break" is also considered a line break or POV switch. An author should either use an extra double space (the ONLY time when this is acceptable) or a single or double hash mark ("#", found above the number 3 on the keyboard), against the left margin to indicate a line break.'

And I have to clarify it. Is it best to finish the scene, go down to the next line and put ##, then go down another line to begin to the next scene -

[FONT=&quot]They move together and do not look back to the eyes that watch them.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]##[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Kev is in the lead as they come to the Medical Office.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Or put two lines before and after the ##? [/FONT]

Use two and the typesetter will place two spaces in the book, rather than one. The correct way to indicate a scene break is a single # centered on the line.

loiterer · May 14, 2007

So if I scenebreak by using 13 asterixes (my lucky number) I will definitely be in trouble? I guess it's good for me to have found this out now, rather than later.

Are you supposed to indent the first line of each paragraph, too? I write 'internet style' where I just put a double 'enter' after each paragraph rather than indenting. Will I need to go change all my paragraphs when I have a completed novel?

seun · May 14, 2007

I've done it as Uncle Jim and JAR said. Thanks for the help.

Shady Lane · May 14, 2007

scarletpeaches said:
I press enter, centre one #, enter again, indent for the first paragraph of the next scene, and continue.

Me too, exactly.

Kristin Landon · May 14, 2007

loiterer, yes, you will have to remove all those extra returns and indent your paragraphs.

As a copyeditor I do a bit of !#%&@!! when I get a hardcopy ms. formatted the way you do it: it's hard to spot paragraph breaks that occur between pages, and I have to handwrite a paragraph mark at the beginning of every single paragraph.

If I'm editing a Word file, of course, thirty seconds of Search & Replace and a paragraph format change take care of it. But you're trying to sell a novel, so you should do this yourself. Don't give them any reason to think less of your work or your professionalism.

job · May 14, 2007

>>>So if I scenebreak by using 13 asterixes (my lucky number) I will definitely be in trouble? I guess it's good for me to have found this out now, rather than later.<<<<

The copyeditor will fix this for you
by crossing out your asterixes
and inserting a single hashmark in a circle, centered on the line.

If you've added extra spaces around your scene break, the copyeditor will close them up.

The copyeditor is your friend and will not let you do really stupid stuff.
In your copy.
Everywhere else, you're on your own.

>>>Are you supposed to indent the first line of each paragraph, too?<<<

Yes.

>>> I just put a double 'enter' after each paragraph rather than indenting. Will I need to go change all my paragraphs when I have a completed novel?<<<<

Yes.

You are going to doublespace the manuscript you submit.
A double linebreak would leave four lines blank after every paragraph.
This would look really peculiar.

If you want to compose 'intrnet style' you will have to reformat your manuscript before submission.
Do a search and replace.
Find all the double linebreaks and replace them with single linebreaks.
Then go back to your chapter headings and replace the double linebreaks you put there to move the chapter headings down the page.

Jamesaritchie · May 14, 2007

loiterer said:
So if I scenebreak by using 13 asterixes (my lucky number) I will definitely be in trouble? I guess it's good for me to have found this out now, rather than later.

Are you supposed to indent the first line of each paragraph, too? I write 'internet style' where I just put a double 'enter' after each paragraph rather than indenting. Will I need to go change all my paragraphs when I have a completed novel?

An asterisk does not mean "insert a space." A copy editor will simply cross these out and insert a single hash mark. Editors, and typesetters, use proofreaders' marks to edit manuscripts. You'll have to do the same, if you receive back a copy edited manuscript.

The hash mark is a proofreaders' mark that means "insert a space." You can find a list of common proofreaders' marks at many websites, or in most grammar and style guides.

Underlining for italics is also a proofreaders' mark.

And, yes, you must indent each paragraph, and should never hit enter twice between paragraphs. You can find a good format guide for novels and short stories here: http://www.shunn.net/format/story.html

julief · May 14, 2007

Okay, but what should I do about this, which is how I've been doing my scene breaks since each scene moves in time:

And let go of her lingering animosity for Amanda as her fingers uncurled from the golden frame.

**1945**

Gloria watched the pair move down the sidewalk.

scarletpeaches · May 14, 2007

...the golden frame.

#

1945:

Gloria watched...

^^^That's how I'd do it. The # of course, would be centred. And I'd indent from 'Gloria' onwards.

julief · May 14, 2007

That's a good idea. Thanks, peaches.

Elodie-Caroline · May 14, 2007

I know this is probably a dumb-@ss question... When dialogue is used, is that also considered as a scene break in-between the two persons talking, so does that need a linebreak or # between those two separate persons words as well please?

Eg: Would two people talking look like this on my MS?

‘Oh-la-la. The woman of my dreams.’
‘What? Are you mad?’ Pierre asked.

Or like this?...

‘Oh-la-la. The woman of my dreams.’

‘What? Are you mad?’ Pierre asked.

Thank you... Elodie

scarletpeaches · May 14, 2007

If a new person starts speaking, I press enter once and indent for a new paragraph, no scene break.

I only do a scene break if we're jumping into someone else's head.

Elodie-Caroline · May 14, 2007

Okie dokie darling, thank you

Bufty · May 14, 2007

I didn't think it was required to indent the first paragraph following a scene break # regardless of why the scene break is there - not on the UK side of the pond anyway.

scarletpeaches · May 14, 2007

That's what I thought too, but I figure it can't do any harm.

Also I've been told to start a new chapter halfway down the next page; I'm not sure if this is an American thing, or kind of 'universal'?

Bufty · May 14, 2007

I may be mis-interpreting your post, Scarlet and do apologise if so, but I presume most folk are set up so that keying 'Enter' assumes a new paragraph is required and gives an automatic indent on the next line?

scarletpeaches said:
If a new person starts speaking, I press enter once and indent for a new paragraph, no scene break.

I only do a scene break if we're jumping into someone else's head.

A stupid question about scene breaks

seun

Horror Man

JoNightshade

has finally arrived

seun

Horror Man

scarletpeaches

seun

Horror Man

scarletpeaches

seun

Horror Man

Kristin Landon

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle

Jamesaritchie

loiterer

seun

Horror Man

Shady Lane

my name is hannah

Kristin Landon

job

In the end, it's just you and the manuscript

Jamesaritchie

julief

Hardly here

scarletpeaches

julief

Hardly here

Elodie-Caroline

scarletpeaches

Elodie-Caroline

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?

scarletpeaches

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?