Steel Poets

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Ned George

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So much that's exciting about history is the customs and traditions of an age. Fencing comes to mind. Is anyone here an expert? An amateur? I need to write about it now and then, and imagine I can fake it pretty well by plagiarizing Dumas, Perez-Reverte and such, but an expert would probably have me sorted out in no time.

Does one have to take a class in order to write about it?

Or should we just do what the romance novelists do, and write two pages about sweating and how the character FEELS about the duel, rather than describe what's going on?

I did a crash course by reading websites. Does that count as knowledge?
 

Puma

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If I remember correctly there's a thread in the Experts Forum (right below Share Your Work on the main board) about fencing. You might want to check that out. Puma
 

Diviner

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I believe in research, both on the web and from books. I have learned a lot about different types of fighting from googling and also from asking specific questions of various experts.

As for emotions, that is more a writing concern, which ones you want to include and where. Any skill takes effort (and repetition) to master, so using that skill is a combination of control and emotion. As a writer, you can put what you want where it works best for the drama of the scene. And, of course, you can do the same when you map out the fight.
 

funidream

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Don't plagerize. Write what you know.

That said, you have to get to know swordplay.

First you have to figure out the exact sort of weapon your characters are using - rapier, short sword, broad sword etc. - as tactics and skill evolve around the weapon type.

I was lucky. My son was very active in competive fencing. It was helpful for me to imagine a bout by observing, listening to, and speaking with the masters and students at his club. It was also helpful to actually wield a weapon - I mean, just hold it in your hand to get a feel for the weight and balance. Keep in mind that modern fencing is quite different from a traditional bout or duel to the death. The three types of competition fencing involve foil, epee and saber - and it is scored electronically.

Our community college offers a class on traditional sword play - with traditonal non-electrified weapons. I think that would be a great place to go for hands-on experience. Depending on your time period, there are often historical reenacting groups acceessible online where you can get good info.

funidream
 

Ned George

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This is all great help. Thanks for taking my rant seriously. I want a character who knows his stuff, but how can he know what I don't? My husband was a fencer and still has the gear in the basement. I've never tried it on. It still smells like sweat.

I'm in college right now, but since I don't need any more PE credits, I never checked out what they offer. I'd bet it's on the list~ I could withdraw halfway through if I start to fail, right? The GPA still matters, even if it's just for fun.
 

zornhau

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This is all great help. Thanks for taking my rant seriously. I want a character who knows his stuff, but how can he know what I don't? My husband was a fencer and still has the gear in the basement. I've never tried it on. It still smells like sweat.

I'm in college right now, but since I don't need any more PE credits, I never checked out what they offer. I'd bet it's on the list~ I could withdraw halfway through if I start to fail, right? The GPA still matters, even if it's just for fun.

OK, the big, big snag is that sports fencing is just glorified tag with car aerials, and bears little or no resemblence to the real thing except for - perhaps - 1900s smallsword duels. Historic rapiers, for example, are rather heavy, even compare to a longsword. Sabres... well, they require a good swing, rather than a flick, but without exposing your forearm.

Thankfully, replica weapons are available, and combat techniques are documented back to the 1300s. So, what you really need to do is google Western Martial Arts and look for a local group who you watch and learn from. Better yet, take a course. (Caveat: that's how I started 7 years ago, and now I have enough swords to liberate Narnia)

You might also find: http://www.chivalrybookshelf.com/titles/duellists/duellists.html useful...
 

Pat~

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This is all great help. Thanks for taking my rant seriously. I want a character who knows his stuff, but how can he know what I don't? My husband was a fencer and still has the gear in the basement. I've never tried it on. It still smells like sweat.

I'm in college right now, but since I don't need any more PE credits, I never checked out what they offer. I'd bet it's on the list~ I could withdraw halfway through if I start to fail, right? The GPA still matters, even if it's just for fun.

I took fencing in college (I took lots of PE just for the fun of it; I'm strange that way). It's an incredible workout for the upper legs; you might learn enough about it experientially to realistically write about it for your character. I'd think practical knowledge coupled with head knowledge would bring that much more to your writing.
 

zornhau

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I took fencing in college (I took lots of PE just for the fun of it; I'm strange that way). It's an incredible workout for the upper legs; you might learn enough about it experientially to realistically write about it for your character. I'd think practical knowledge coupled with head knowledge would bring that much more to your writing.

But - to re-iterate - sports fencing is just glorified tag with car aerials. The real thing is different, with many different moves, different physics and different rules (i.e. very few indeed).
 

JenNipps

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Some time ago, the History Channel had a documentary on about swords, axes, and knives that was pretty interesting/informative. It helped me quite a bit in a fight scene between my MC and his opponent. I don't know if they have a link for that episode or not, but I'll look and see and add it here if they do.

BTW, here's a link to the Story Research board if anyone needs it.
 

Ned George

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Thanks, everyone, for the tips and encouragement. Jen, do post that link if you find the episode. Or do you know the name of it? They've got a good website, easy to find stuff.

Swordplay isn't the theme of my novel, but in the late 1700s a sword was part of the gentleman's uniform and fencing part of his life.

If you don't mind, here's a brief description of the character's fencing background. If anything of it rings false, those of you who know might let me know:

The character is French, an emigre, hired to tutor the son of a west country sea officer--the low-born type who has higher hopes for his boys. The main character is not a master, but engages to teach the boy fencing because he's good enough for that much. (Many emigres taught fencing, dancing, whatever they knew, to English boys. It was a point of pride for the English to have impoverished French noblemen in one's employ.)

The character didn't begin to learn until he was fourteen. Late, but the Italian master who taught him, his cousin and his brothers said he was too skinny at twelve, so he had to wait. His constant partner growing up was his cousin, much the same age, both competitive but the cousin never won. He won at everything else, even in battles of wit, but not at fencing. In this, the MC is superior.

A duel comes up later in the show, with an army officer whose weapon of choice is the sabre. The MC challenges this man in a fit of rage, and in his heart this duel will avenge everything that happened to the MC since the start of the revolution. In other words, he's avenging the loss of his family, his property, his wealth and position, and the fact that he's had to live with uncivilized Englishmen for six years. (Sort of a running joke; there's really not much wrong with Englishmen except that they aren't French, and before he was taught there was a God to be worshipped, he was taught that there were Englsihmen to be despised. Plus, the English prefer pistols when challenging anyone from the continent.)

OK so far?
 

zornhau

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Sounds great so far.
(I'm sure you're aware that British army sabres mostly came in standard paterns known by their date? The 1796 pattern cavalry sabre is rather like a flattened metal banana with a mostly sharp edge. It is.. blade heavy.)
 
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