Narrative Distance!

Mike Martyn · May 4, 2007

I'm working my way through Self Editing for Fiction Writers (a book which I heartilly recommend).

Chapter 3 discusses "narrative distance" which I had never heard about before (Ok, I'm stupid. So sue me).

By way of example suppose you're using a 3rd party pov and your MC is eight years old. To build suspense you start out the scene using adult words ie;

"The building had seen better times but the winds of winter had taken their toll. Only a sad neglected house on a hill though many believed it to be haunted. Generations of neighbourhood children had dared one another to go inside."

Then you start using more childish naration ie;

"He wished he'd brought Billy or maybe his Daisy air rifle even if his ma said he'd shoot his eye out. He wished he was anywhere but here at the old Hiller place. Uh uh, no way was gonna go inside!"

Ok so that's not the best example and the transtion's too quick but it sounds like a great technique. Every now and then, I pick up something new and this one blows me away!

Any thoughts, people? Have you used it? Does it work for you?

herdon · May 4, 2007

Definately. Some things are best told with a further distance, others are best done by getting close to the character.

Randy · May 4, 2007

I think I would just start the scene out and describe it from the the 8-yr-old's POV. Then the reader might connect with the kid and relate to his possible fears or whatever. Probably a bit too jolting to start with an adult's POV then move to a child's.

TrickyFiction · May 4, 2007

Randy said:
Probably a bit too jolting to start with an adult's POV then move to a child's.

Hmm... I don't know. If you're writing for adults, it might be difficult for them to become eight right away, you know? So, you set your book-machine to "adult," at first. Then, you slowly pull the reader down to "child." I think this idea could be useful in situations like that.

I'd never heard of "narrative distance" either. So, thanks for posting about it, Mike.
I think I'm definitely going to be getting that book, too.

maestrowork · May 4, 2007

I have a problem with narrative voice changing within the same scene, from a distant "adult" narrator to a close limited voice matching the POV character. Somehow I find that technique very distracting.

Garpy · May 4, 2007

'Narrative distance' is a new buzz phrase for me too. I like it. It sounds all teknickle and complykated.

And I like the idea cited in the example above, it has the filmic feel of a zoom. As long as it's deployed well, this is a cool technique to use. Done badly, I would imagine the sudden shift might be a little jarring for the reader.

JamieFord · May 4, 2007

I'd stay close--in the young protagonist's POV. But I write character-driven stuff and it suits me better. I've heard the wider set-up called 3rd-Person Cinematic, and I don't really enjoy it. Seems like an artifact from the habits of screenwriting.

Orson Scott Card has a great book about this very subject called Characters & Viewpoint. Well worth the read.

Claudia Gray · May 4, 2007

I have seen that technique used and used well, though I never consciously looked at it before. Although I haven't used it myself, I can see how it could be very effective at times.

What is your opinion of the self-editing book?

RG570 · May 4, 2007

Ah, I have that book and I refer to it often. I totally agree with that point.

Sometimes spending too much time in a character's head would get tiring, specifically if they're going through some psychological trauma or they're crazy or something. Adjusting narrative distance can be a good thing.

sunna · May 4, 2007

I've been playing around with it in the intro to my first WIP, but I never knew it had a catchy title. Learned something new.

I really like the effect....in other people's writing. I'm not sure yet how I feel about what I've done with it, or how to use it effectively outside of the intro stage, but that's probably just inexperience.

It sounds like an interesting book; maybe I'll make the trek to B&N this weekend.

Azure Skye · May 5, 2007

maestrowork said:
I have a problem with narrative voice changing within the same scene, from a distant "adult" narrator to a close limited voice matching the POV character. Somehow I find that technique very distracting.

Phew. I thought I was the only one who found it distracting.

engmajor2005 · May 5, 2007

You would definitely want to establish that your narrator is an eight-year old kid; I don't know if starting out using adult words is the best way. A smart reader will be able to know what's going on if you just start out from the kid's POV, and most readers are smarter that given credit for.

Doug Johnson · May 5, 2007

maestrowork said:
I have a problem with narrative voice changing within the same scene, from a distant "adult" narrator to a close limited voice matching the POV character. Somehow I find that technique very distracting.

I'm actually rewriting a scene and thinking about narrative distance now. I just popped in for a break.

One thing that I find helps is really thinking about when the narrator is speaking and when the narrator is just repeating the character’s thoughts. Then, like the original post recommends, use appropriate words.

An adult would say "His mother." An 8 year old would say "Mom."

He thought about his mother. Mom never let him play with matches.

is an example of shrinking narrative distance. It might not be the most compelling example, but I don't think it's distracting.

Will Lavender · May 5, 2007

engmajor2005 said:
You would definitely want to establish that your narrator is an eight-year old kid; I don't know if starting out using adult words is the best way. A smart reader will be able to know what's going on if you just start out from the kid's POV, and most readers are smarter that given credit for.

I absolutely agree.

In fact, I think starting out at a distance is a horrible idea. When I'm reading "big words" and find that the MC is a child, I'll put the book down. I have children; I know how they speak and think. If you're trying to attach five-dollar words to their experience, you're either (a) pretentious or (b) don't know what the hell you're doing because you've never been around average kids. You don't want to dumb the language down, of course, but you want to write with an understanding of your main character's perspective. In my opinion.

An example from popular fiction was mentioned on another thread: Ian McCewan's Atonement. The first couple of pages of that book are some of the strangest I've ever read. I couldn't get through the first chapter, and I even bought it on tape to give it a second shot.

Steve W · May 6, 2007

Hi,

Personally I like this distancing idea -- gives a lot of opportunities. But a pro writer I know frowns on it as they say it isn't 'true' POV, says there's two and there's a switch. Strictly speaking, I suppose there's truth in that, but I don't give a toss. If it works, break the rules.

Cheers,
Steve

Raphee · May 6, 2007

New word. Thanks for putting it here.
But I have read the use of the technique in other novels , now that I think about it. And I have enjoyed it. like all things in writing , it has the same qualification attached: Must be done well.
Why am I suddenly thinking of steaks. Oh yeah just got off a plane and had an in flight meal that was well....in flight.

Susan Gable · May 6, 2007

I'm a fan of "close" - also known as Deep 3rd Person. All of the "stuff," including the narrative, comes through the POV character's perspective. Which means if the POV character is an 8-year-old kid (which I've done, BTW) it had better SOUND like an 8-year-old kid for the whole portion that's in that character's POV.

I did have an experience though, in a couple of books, where my editor kept adding distance by changing things like "Mom" or "Dad" back to "her mom" and "her dad" in the narrative. <shrug>

As always, this is my OPINION. Writing offers us many options to chose from. Deep 3rd is a favorite of mine.

Susan G.

Narrative Distance!

Mike Martyn

herdon

What's up?

Randy

TrickyFiction

Who?

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

Garpy

keyboard monkey

JamieFord

giving resonant directions

Claudia Gray

RG570

sunna

Azure Skye

Huh?

engmajor2005

Doug Johnson

Will Lavender

Everything is what it seems.

Steve W

Raphee

In debt to AW

Susan Gable

Dreamer of dreams, teller of tales