Professional writing??

Moon Daughter · May 1, 2007

Ok, I'm just taking a shot at this. I don't know if this is the right forum to post this in, but I'm on break and don't have much time to check. I'm going back to college and want to have some English credentials. With the major I'm taking, they don't offer a minor in English, but in Professional Writing. Does anyone think this would be much different than having a minor in English, or perhaps even better?

Amanda

NeuroFizz · May 1, 2007

Depends on the university, the faculty, and the curriculum.

JanDarby · May 1, 2007

What's the description of the courses in the minor? Sounds more like business writing, which is not particularly helpful for writing fiction.

JD

jchines · May 1, 2007

It also depends on why you want the credentials. Is this for the purpose of getting a career? For improving non-fiction skills? To impress fiction editors?

Soccer Mom · May 1, 2007

I agree with jchines. Choosing the right major and minor depends on what you want to do with your degree. Although I intended to be a lawyer, I didn't major in pre-law, but in English. It has quite frankly been more useful to me.

The Grift · May 1, 2007

Soccer Mom said:
Although I intended to be a lawyer, I didn't major in pre-law, but in English. It has quite frankly been more useful to me.

Hey, me too! But I think we talked about this. And I didn't intend to be a lawyer until about my junior year anyway. Hopefully my English Major / Creative Writing Minor will be useful to me. We didn't even have pre-law at my school.

I did some google searching, and it seems that most professional writing minors are focused on technical writing, grant writing, business writing, etc. Some claim to prepare the student for professional editing or even journalism writing.

But what it doesn't seem to be is a course on how to be a professional novelist or anything like that.

So in the end, it all comes down to what you hope to do with it, I guess.

Moon Daughter · May 1, 2007

Thanks everyone. I know some of the courses are proofreading, copy/line editing, journalism, etc. So I guess it wouldn't help me with writing novels. I just thought that maybe agents would be more willing to take me on with that kind of background.

JanDarby · May 1, 2007

Agents don't know or care about educational background. It's all about the writing.

JD

Namatu · May 1, 2007

Jan's right. It's your writing that counts, not whether you have a degree in writing.

Joe270 · May 1, 2007

I agree with JD, I doubt it matters to an agent. I wonder how many english majors became successful writers?

I'd try to take the best writing classes you can get, unless it's a small college there should be a selection. Try to place out of freshman english so you can take AP sophomore english. An expository writing course will do wonders for you.

I didn't take expository writing because they recommended a reduced hour load, but friends took it so I followed along. John Trimble was the professor. I'm such an idiot.

Nolita · May 1, 2007

Just my opinion but if you can write an amazing novel without a degree, that makes for better press. Remember how they tried to spin it to make J.K. Rowling sound like she was less educated than she actually is?

I think if you have an everyperson quality, and can still put out good - great material, it's a lot more impressive.

JoNightshade · May 1, 2007

I'm both a novelist (unpublished) and a professional/business writer. I got my degree in English Lit and I just happened to fall into writing for marketing. I've learned a lot since then and what I can say is that professional writing, while not technically useful for fiction writing, certainly pays a lot more! Not only that, but I am now getting recognition in the marketing field... which I believe will be beneficial now that I'm contacting agents. I know a lot of agencies look for someone who is skilled at promoting his/her own work. Also, I personally think it's a huge plus to be able to say, "Look, I may not have published a novel yet-- but I write for a living. I know my stuff."

So I guess my point is, if you actually want to make a living as a writer, go for the professional writing.

jchines · May 1, 2007

"I wonder how many english majors became successful writers?"

::Raises hand::

Now ask me how much of my fiction writing skill, such as it is, came from graduate school?

My English degree did marvelous things for my non-fiction, not to mention giving me some wonderful teaching experience. But for fiction, it wasn't all that useful.

Jamesaritchie · May 1, 2007

College

Moon Daughter said:
Ok, I'm just taking a shot at this. I don't know if this is the right forum to post this in, but I'm on break and don't have much time to check. I'm going back to college and want to have some English credentials. With the major I'm taking, they don't offer a minor in English, but in Professional Writing. Does anyone think this would be much different than having a minor in English, or perhaps even better?

Amanda

Can you find any students who have already taken the course? Such courses can be great or lousy, and it's difficult to tell which is which without talking to previous students, checking out the prof to see if he has any experience in professional writing, and looking through the textbooks.

But this is outside my experience. With my majors, almost every minor was reading or writing related.

Jamesaritchie · May 1, 2007

English

Joe270 said:
I agree with JD, I doubt it matters to an agent. I wonder how many english majors became successful writers?

.

A great big bunch of them.

Namatu · May 1, 2007

Moon Daughter said:
Thanks everyone. I know some of the courses are proofreading, copy/line editing, journalism, etc. So I guess it wouldn't help me with writing novels. I just thought that maybe agents would be more willing to take me on with that kind of background.

Proofreading and copyediting are helpful in polishing novels. If you want some publishing/editorial background, you might look into short, intense courses such as those provided by places like the Denver Publishing Institute.

Jamesaritchie · May 1, 2007

English

The really big advantage I found from college writing courses, in journalism, in English, and in creative writing courses, wasn't the degree, it was fact that pretty much all I did for four years was read, write, and study reading and writing.

It was the tremendous resources at hand, being around hundreds of others who had the same interests, meeting and being taught by professional writers, editors, journalists, etc.

The degree is a piece of paper, but four years of structured must read, must write, must study, must pass courses of fail is definitely a learning experience, and an environment useful at building self-discipline.

Agents and editors do not faint dead away at the sight of such a degree, but at the same time, a potential client with such a degree is usually a safer bet than a potential client who lacks such a degree.

Sohia Rose · May 1, 2007

Jamesaritchie said:
The really big advantage I found from college writing courses, in journalism, in English, and in creative writing courses, wasn't the degree, it was fact that pretty much all I did for four years was read, write, and study reading and writing.

It was the tremendous resources at hand, being around hundreds of others who had the same interests, meeting and being taught by professional writers, editors, journalists, etc.

The degree is a piece of paper, but four years of structured must read, must write, must study, must pass courses of fail is definitely a learning experience, and an environment useful at building self-discipline.

Agents and editors do not faint dead away at the sight of such a degree, but at the same time, a potential client with such a degree is usually a safer bet than a potential client who lacks such a degree.

Ditto!

I'm a non-fiction writer––journalism, articles, narrative essays, how-to books, memoirs, etc. I've had many editors compliment me on the clarity of my writing. They'll say, "Wow! You can write!" And I'd think, 'Well, yeh.' Or I've had editors say, "I can tell that you've been professionally trained."

Gillhoughly · May 2, 2007

Talk to the course instructors about your goals outside of college and what's best for you to achieve them. Some of them have had publishing experience!

Editor's hat on:

College credit in English cuts no ice with me, I just want good writing. I get work from names with whole alphabets after 'em for the education they've stuffed in their heads who still can't put together a sentence.

Writer's hat on:

The course that did ME the most good was taking theater. Multiple semesters as a drama major taught me more than taking Composition 101.

I still use what I learned interacting with some strange and wonderful people--much more fun than writing endless essays for the English teachers.

Tirjasdyn · May 2, 2007

The best part of my Creative Writing degree is that I got to research whatever I wanted at a university library.

The knowledge I now have in folklore, mythology, religion and literature is priceless in my writing and would have been much harder to obtain had I not done it.

Moon Daughter · May 2, 2007

This is all great advice, and now I'm torn between it, ha. I can tell this is going to be a tough decision since people have had different experiences pertaining to this subject matter. But thanks all again for your input. It's appreciated.

Countess Olenska · May 2, 2007

Thanks everyone. I know some of the courses are proofreading, copy/line editing, journalism, etc. So I guess it wouldn't help me with writing novels.

Au contraire; I think it could help quite a bit. I've yet to have any of my fiction published, but I have no doubt that the contract writing I've done (middle-grade educational stuff) has helped me to become a better all-around writer. Learning to proofread, edit, and work on revisions with an editor has made me more confident, and I can actually feel the difference while I'm writing fiction. I know I'm making fewer mistakes.

NeuroFizz · May 2, 2007

Moon Daughter said:
This is all great advice, and now I'm torn between it, ha. I can tell this is going to be a tough decision since people have had different experiences pertaining to this subject matter. But thanks all again for your input. It's appreciated.

If the experience will allow you to expand your intellectual horizons, regardless of their direct relation to your writing, go for it. Many of the important lessons learned in a college education don't relate directly to the subjects of the various courses taken.

Moon Daughter · May 2, 2007

NeuroFizz said:
If the experience will allow you to expand your intellectual horizons, regardless of their direct relation to your writing, go for it. Many of the important lessons learned in a college education don't relate directly to the subjects of the various courses taken.

I think that's very wise and safe to say. The only thing is that I don't want to (I'd hate to put it this way, but...) waste time and money if it's not going to help me. But I guess I won't know until I actually go through with it, and I suppose money is simply money.

johnzakour · May 3, 2007

My degrees are in Computer Science, Biology, Human Behavior and Economics.

I'm a big fan in having a diverse background and knowledge base to help a writing career. I took two writing courses undergrad, but I found most English courses to be quite, how do you say it...boring. (Though I'm sure there are times when my publishers and agent wish I took my English grammer classes.)

Professional writing??

Moon Daughter

NeuroFizz

The grad students did it

JanDarby

jchines

Got the hang of it, here

Soccer Mom

Crypto-fascist

The Grift

Tom Swiftly's Favorite Adverb

Moon Daughter

JanDarby

Namatu

Lost in mental space.

Joe270

Nolita

JoNightshade

has finally arrived

jchines

Got the hang of it, here

Jamesaritchie

Jamesaritchie

Namatu

Lost in mental space.

Jamesaritchie

Sohia Rose

Will write for coffee

Gillhoughly

Grumpy writer and editor

Tirjasdyn

Outline Maven

Moon Daughter

Countess Olenska

NeuroFizz

The grad students did it

Moon Daughter

johnzakour

Dangerous with a Keyboard