MSWord senses my vulnerability

Nangleator · Apr 29, 2007

I am close to printing my WIP and have noticed that my efforts in formatting have created 24 lines per page.

Courier New, 12pt, 1 inch margins, double spaced. RIGHT? Supposed to make for 25 lines per page, RIGHT?

Weep for me. It doesn't work.

I can drop it down to 11pt and have 26 lines per page. From that I would guess that 11.5pt font would work out to 25 lines per page, but I don't want a professional reading my submission and thinking, "there's something... small about this guy's work."

Oh, and Word has decided to disable its own up/down scroll bar. I've got to read through this novel (105k words? 88k words? Who can tell if I can't fit just 25 lines per page) by pushing my cursor up and down. Wonderful.

DamaNegra · Apr 29, 2007

Oh, come on, is the number of lines per page really that important??

As for pushing the cursor up and down, you can replace it with the av pag/re pag keys. Erm... not sure what they would be called in english

Nangleator · Apr 29, 2007

Well, I want to make sure that an agent/editor agrees with my word count estimate, which is wildly different from Word's word count. (Maybe I use a lot of big words.)

Page Up/Page Down is a good suggestion, but it always takes me a moment to find the exact line I was reading after the sudden change. Scrolling works much better. My mouse wheel works best, but I knocked that mouse off my desk and it broke.

The fates conspire against me.

DamaNegra · Apr 29, 2007

Your own clumsiness conspires against you

Have you tried fixing the margins?? Maybe your margin setting got messed up.

brer · Apr 29, 2007

Nangleator said:
I am close to printing my WIP and have noticed that my efforts in formatting have created 24 lines per page.

Courier New, 12pt, 1 inch margins, double spaced. RIGHT? Supposed to make for 25 lines per page, RIGHT?

Weep for me. It doesn't work.

I can drop it down to 11pt and have 26 lines per page. From that I would guess that 11.5pt font would work out to 25 lines per page, but I don't want a professional reading my submission and thinking, "there's something... small about this guy's work."

Oh, and Word has decided to disable its own up/down scroll bar. I've got to read through this novel (105k words? 88k words? Who can tell if I can't fit just 25 lines per page) by pushing my cursor up and down. Wonderful.

Go activate your "File" dropdown menu, select "Page Setup," and then fiddle with your "Margins," e.g., "Top:" and "Bottom:"

I don't know what to do to fix your "Page Up" and "Page Down" keys.

Note: Remember that MSWord has a default strategy of how to breakup paragraphs when they straddle a page.

chibeth · Apr 29, 2007

It's not a huge deal if you have less than 25 lines per page. It's just not. Can't say that I've ever counted lines in a person's submission. The story is what's important, unless you've formatted your manuscript in some noticeably bizarre way (like using Comic Sans font or something). If you're really concerned about the accuracy of your word count, go here and try that technique.

ETA: I meant to link here, though you should check the other link out as well. (I hope that link works).

If you're dead set on 25 lines per page, make sure you have widows and orphans turned off.

maestrowork · Apr 29, 2007

You can set line spacing to "Exactly 25" instead of "double space." Keep the margins and font size the same.

Nangleator · Apr 29, 2007

Perhaps we have different versions of Word. When I choose paragraph spacing, I can set "Line spacing" to "Exactly" but the measurement must be in points.

maestrowork · Apr 29, 2007

Nope. Just type "25" and not "25 pt."

Sean D. Schaffer · Apr 30, 2007

Nangleator said:
Perhaps we have different versions of Word. When I choose paragraph spacing, I can set "Line spacing" to "Exactly" but the measurement must be in points.

Is there a little box by it with what looks like a 'v'? If so, click on that 'v', as it would be a drop-down menu with more options. That might be the way you can find an 'Exactly 25 Lines' option.

NeuroFizz · Apr 30, 2007

Or... leave it the way it is but change your word count.

For every 24 pages of your manuscript, subtract one page. This will tell you how long your ms would be if you did 25 words per page. Multiply that amount by the number of words per page. For a 300 page ms, you will subtract 12.5 pages (if my math is correct) for a total of 287.5 pages for use in calculating word count.

jodiodi · Apr 30, 2007

Why not just use the computer word count? That's what I do. Saves time and frustration.

kristie911 · Apr 30, 2007

I think we, as writers, tend to get way too upset about little things like this.

If the story is good, the agent/editor/whoever isn't going to care one little bit what the format is unless it's really wonky.

I've also heard that if you have 24 lines per page, you can multiply by 240 rather than 250 per page. Wouldn't that work out pretty close too?

I usually use Word's count and my page count and average it anyway. If you're in the ballpark, it's close enough.

Nangleator · Apr 30, 2007

Thank you, all. I'll be brave and print.

The Grift · Apr 30, 2007

jodiodi said:
Why not just use the computer word count? That's what I do. Saves time and frustration.

Because the computer's word count actually counts words... an editor's/publisher's word count is concerned with the space on a page the writing takes up. The difference can be substantial. Like 20% or more.

jodiodi · Apr 30, 2007

And here I thought word count actually meant word count. Boy am I stupid.

I still go with the computer word count. I'd rather see a great story with an estimated word count than an exact number of words of crap. I think on the list of priorities for writing, which word count one uses is waaaaaaay down on the list as long as you have something in the general area.

The Grift · Apr 30, 2007

jodiodi said:
And here I thought word count actually meant word count. Boy am I stupid.

I still go with the computer word count. I'd rather see a great story with an estimated word count than an exact number of words of crap. I think on the list of priorities for writing, which word count one uses is waaaaaaay down on the list as long as you have something in the general area.

I agree with you. But then again, I'm not a professional.

In the same set of articles I read all about word counts, my favorite article was one that simply said (paraphrased) pick a method, any method. Worry about writing well.

Soccer Mom · Apr 30, 2007

I've never gotten a complaint for having 24 instead of 25 lines on a page. I don't think it's a big deal.

Kristin Landon · Apr 30, 2007

Editors want to figure out how many printed pages a story will take up. I've never had that job, but I understand there's an esoteric formula, something about counting the spaces in a line and dividing by 6, then multiplying by lines on a full page.

The word count from the WP doesn't work because it doesn't allow for short lines of dialog, which take up as much vertical space as complete lines, or for blank line spaces and chapter opening and closing pages. The WP doesn't account for air, but the editor has to.

However, the editor's going to have to do that figuring no matter what word count the writer gives (she won't know how you arrived at your number), so I just use the WP count.

blacbird · Apr 30, 2007

Nobody's mentioned it, so I will: Highlight your entire document, then go into Format-Paragraph on your menu, and turn OFF the Widows/Orphans check box. The MS-Word default (set by morons in the Microsoft Programming Department who believe that your program should be smarter than you are) is for it to be ON.

caw

WildScribe · Apr 30, 2007

What the HECK is widows/orphans?

RumpleTumbler · Apr 30, 2007

My template works out to 23 lines per page. Am I supposed to be bothered by this?

maestrowork · Apr 30, 2007

WildScribe said:
What the HECK is widows/orphans?

While on, Word would not allow a single line at the bottom of the page (widow), or the last line of a paragraph to dangle on a new page (orphan). That means it will move your paragraph, creating uneven line counts (22 here, 24 there, etc.) With the option off, you ensure that all the lines are exactly where they should be.

WildScribe · Apr 30, 2007

Ah.. if you think about it, the name even sort of makes sense... Stupid Word.

RumpleTumbler · Apr 30, 2007

I get 24 with orphans off. Maybe you will get 25 since you started with 24.

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